December 2000 - Test - lists.nanog.org

Where are ATM NAPs going?
by Ben Buxton 19 Dec '00

19 Dec '00

I'm interested in peoples thoughts as to what is happening with the future of ATM NAPs. Are people moving away from them or are they still quite popular? Downsides or upsides? I'm trying to gauge whether they are worthy of investing equipment and hassle into for peering... -- Ben Buxton - Random Network Person

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RE: Port scanning legal
by Jade E. Deane 19 Dec '00

19 Dec '00

Could we all please put away our members for a moment? The bottom line is, there are times and places where "port scanning" is required. I would assume the intelligence level of this group warrants no in depth explanation or case study. How about this, differentiating between legitimate "port scans" and preempts to an attack. How, when, and where. Also, correct escalation procedures to security departments and law officials. Jade Jade E. Deane Network Engineer helloNetwork.com Las Vegas, Nevada Office: +1 (702) 938-9267 Cell: +1 (702) 604-4759 Fax: +1 (702) 456-1471 email: jade.deane(a)helloNetwork.com urgent epage: 7026044759(a)page.nextel.com -----Original Message----- From: Roeland Meyer [mailto:rmeyer@mhsc.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 12:41 PM To: 'Dan Hollis'; Roeland Meyer Cc: Shawn McMahon; 'nanog(a)merit.edu' Subject: RE: Port scanning legal > From: Dan Hollis [mailto:goemon@sasami.anime.net] > Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 12:26 PM > > The argument against port-scanning applies equally well to > just about every > > diagnostic tool we use. > > Only by the most convoluted thinking. Let's see, we *are* talking court cases and lawyers here ... what was that you said about convoluted thinking? When was th last time you argued with an attorney, either in or out of court? When was the last successful time?

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RE: Port scanning legal
by Roeland Meyer 19 Dec '00

19 Dec '00

> From: Dan Hollis [mailto:goemon@sasami.anime.net] > Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 12:26 PM > > The argument against port-scanning applies equally well to > just about every > > diagnostic tool we use. > > Only by the most convoluted thinking. Let's see, we *are* talking court cases and lawyers here ... what was that you said about convoluted thinking? When was th last time you argued with an attorney, either in or out of court? When was the last successful time?

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Re: Where are ATM NAPs going?
by Richard A. Steenbergen 19 Dec '00

19 Dec '00

On Mon, 18 Dec 2000, Leo Bicknell wrote: > > On Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 09:14:53PM -0500, John Fraizer wrote: > > So, what you're saying is that I should tell all the folks that want to > > peer via ATM at CMH-IX (which supports 10/100/GE at this time) that they > > should get bent or get GigE, right? > > > > THANK YOU! > > I had to go google search for this one, and I presume you mean > http://www.cmh-ix.net/. If so, it's a good thing the operators made the > wise decision to support GigE, otherwise they couldn't possibly expect > to meet demand. :-) In this case, perhaps an 8-port Linksys hub would be more appropriate for their needs. :P -- Richard A Steenbergen <ras(a)e-gerbil.net> http://www.e-gerbil.net/humble PGP Key ID: 0x138EA177 (67 29 D7 BC E8 18 3E DA B2 46 B3 D8 14 36 FE B6)

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RE: Qwest yesterday?
by Ralph Forsythe 19 Dec '00

19 Dec '00

Their usual excuse is a fiber cut somewhere, but they didn't even give me that this time! The thing is, my CSU was green so I know the physical circuit integrity was there. I'd think it was a bad route, but it didn't seem to propogate far enough to be that (my Qwest DSL worked fine, and other parts of their network were ok), so I'm leaning towards catastrophic router failure, though I can't imagine why it wouldn't have gone to backup. Surely Qwest has redundancy... ??? - Ralph Forsythe ralph(a)centerone.com At 09:06 AM 12/19/00 -0800, you wrote: >It has been my experience that the last mile in the mile high city is the >worst last mile ever. Qwest and USWest have had multiple outages for our >T1 in Denver, but we never are given a very good RFO. (reason for >outage) the best we have been told is that on separate instances we lost >a load coil, redundant sonnet rings for the city, a repeater and a bad CSU >chassis. Our ISP is concentric, but I think the physical lines in Denver >are the problem. Good luck! > >Ciao! > >Andrew Lewis >KORE >Newport Beach, California >www.kore.com

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Re: Where are ATM NAPs going?
by Richard A. Steenbergen 19 Dec '00

19 Dec '00

On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, John Fraizer wrote: > After I long search, I can not find any exchange point operated by > Richard "unhealthy fascination with gerbils" Steenbergen. > > Until you build an exchange point yourself, don't belittle ours. Ouch, I sense some serious hostility here. I guess your long search didn't turn up my involvement with some of the lesser known exchanges like MAE-Compton or THIMBLE-IIX (Packet over String exchange), but thats understandable. Yes I will kindly let this thread die. :P -- Richard A Steenbergen <ras(a)e-gerbil.net> http://www.e-gerbil.net/humble PGP Key ID: 0x138EA177 (67 29 D7 BC E8 18 3E DA B2 46 B3 D8 14 36 FE B6)

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RE: Qwest yesterday?
by Steve Riley (MCS) 19 Dec '00

19 Dec '00

There have been some very high winds here in the last couple days -- upwards of 90 MPH. Knocked out some of AT&T @Home, too. Wouldn't surprise me if it also ripped off a few roofs in Boulder; that happens just about every winter. _______________________________________________________ Steve Riley Microsoft Communications Consulting in Denver, Colorado steriley(a)microsoft.com +1 720 320-7889 (NEW mobile) www.microsoft.com/isn/ Applying computer technology is simply finding the right wrench to pound in the correct screw. -----Original Message----- From: Ralph Forsythe [mailto:ralph@centerone.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 9:36 AM To: nanog-digest(a)merit.edu Subject: Qwest yesterday? Anybody know what happened to Qwest yesterday? I had access down in Denver for several hours, and the best they could tell me was "it's a big outage, yeah they're down hard". Since my circuit was fine I assume a router failure of some type vs a major cut, but you never know... Thanks, Ralph Forsythe ralph(a)centerone.com

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Qwest yesterday?
by Ralph Forsythe 19 Dec '00

19 Dec '00

Anybody know what happened to Qwest yesterday? I had access down in Denver for several hours, and the best they could tell me was "it's a big outage, yeah they're down hard". Since my circuit was fine I assume a router failure of some type vs a major cut, but you never know... Thanks, Ralph Forsythe ralph(a)centerone.com

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RE: Port scanning legal
by Mark Borchers 19 Dec '00

19 Dec '00

The gray area of port-scanning legality came up at Usenix's conference earlier this month. I believe the consensus was that you are on firmer ground when organizations who own machines that attackers might perform port scans FROM have AUP's that prohibit such activity. Nothing in this court case would seem to prevent an organization from disciplining individuals for using a system for an administratively prohibited purpose. > -----Original Message----- > From: Edward S. Marshall [mailto:emarshal@logic.net] > Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 9:43 AM > To: nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: Port scanning legal > > > http://www.securityfocus.com/templates/article.html?id=126 > > A quick quote from the article: > > A tiff between two IT contractors that spiraled into federal court > ended last month with a U.S. district court ruling in Georgia that > port scanning a network does not damage it, under a section of the > anti-hacking laws that allows victims of cyber attack to sue an > attacker.

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Pinging routers for network status
by Sean Donelan 19 Dec '00

19 Dec '00

On Sun, 17 December 2000, John Fraizer wrote: > On Sat, 16 Dec 2000 nanog(a)rmrf.net wrote: > > We at SAVVIS run continous pings to every backbone router that we > > own. (John - this does not include our ATM switches, we have no way to > > monitor latency between them). But if, say, our connection to Sprint or > > Um, sure you do. You know your atm mesh and (hopefully) you have an IP > address bound up on the switch itself so you can gather snmp statistics > from the box. Most network providers ping their routers for network status. Several providers even track RTT to detect changes. But very few customers connect to routers. Comparing the performance you see with HP Openview or similar products with the performance customers see remains an interesting question. Sometimes C&W's or AT&T's traffic web site does show a problem. But there are also problems that don't show up in intra-network pings. In particular IGP/BGP routing issues can result in severe access network problems, but no problem with the internal provider network mesh used for pings.

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