October 2005 - NANOG - lists.nanog.org

Re: Cogent/Level 3 depeering
by btbowman＠comcast.net 07 Oct '05

07 Oct '05

*Leo Bicknell [bicknell(a)ufp.org] wrote: >If you don't have enable on a router, and you've never negotiated peering with a transit free ISP then you're not qualified to comment. >You really don't understand what's going on here, and it's not, I repeat, not a technical problem. There is nothing wrong with the technology, architecture, or anything else. There is something wrong with the business >model of one, or both of these companies. Well, I disagree. I have no clue. I am not an ISP I do, however, have enable. We do buy transit There are lots of folks that have replied to this thread. A number of them have a lot of "clue". Some, like me, don't. If this list didn't have such lively discussions I would not have the education about how the "Internet" works that this list has given me. If only people with "clue" commented on things this would be a dull place indeed. Might just as well be a closed list. For this, I thank all of you that have contributed.

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RE: Cogent/Level 3 depeering
by Silver Tiger 07 Oct '05

07 Oct '05

Benson Schliesser wrote: >Michael Dillon wrote: >> P.S. would the Internet be worse off if all traffic >.> exchange was paid for and there was no settlement >> free interconnect at all? I.e. paid peering, paid >> full transit and paid partial transit on the menu? >Would you care to speculate on which party receives the greater benefit: >the sender of bytes, or the receiver of bytes? >If both the sender and receiver are being billed for the traffic by >their respective (different) service providers (all other issues being >equal) is one provider in a better position than the other? >Cheers, >-Benson Having enable on a router, yet not having experience with peering in any capacity I was wondering if this analogy holds water. Please excuse the simple model, as I want to understand what other factors may be involved (aside from contractual nuances) Provider A has host/service/user traffic that we will call "Blue Bricks" that need to be moved outside their network. Provider B has host/service/user traffic that we will call "Red Bricks" that need to be moved outside their network.. Both providers decide to meet at the corner and exchange 1 brick each on a regular basis let's say for 1000 cycles both providers meet and exchange blocks successfully. for the next 200 cycles Provider A brings his expected "blue brick" to the corner, yet provider B brings two "red bricks". While that was not expected .. it is acceptable in the short term. then as time goes by Provider B begins to bring additional blocks, yet seems not to notice the standard 1 block that provider A is bringing. While fairly simple, this model explains that the disproportion of "blocks", or traffic as it were, could be a cause of distress. While I hear talk of "Price compression" and "lining pockets" respectively from those who have chosen their position, based on what I've read here and in other places, depeering is a non aggressive yet detrimental way to assert the concerns of a peering provider who feels that the relationship has become inequitable. I can see how the costs of arranging peering and maintaining it can be quite sizable on both sides, but what other factors could cause this type of depeering. Perhaps my view is over simplified, but I don't see this as a black and white "bad guy" scenario. As previous posts have (whether accurately or not) stated, Cogent was notified in advance of Level 3's intentions and both companies had to know that they were shooting themselves in the foot by playing this ever frustrating game of "chicken". I welcome flames/education as this can't be as much of a dichotomy as it seems to be ST

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The Cidr Report
by cidr-report＠potaroo.net 07 Oct '05

07 Oct '05

This report has been generated at Fri Oct 7 21:45:58 2005 AEST. The report analyses the BGP Routing Table of an AS4637 (Reach) router and generates a report on aggregation potential within the table. Check http://www.cidr-report.org/as4637 for a current version of this report. Recent Table History Date Prefixes CIDR Agg 30-09-05 167138 112523 01-10-05 167195 112606 02-10-05 167191 112506 03-10-05 167130 112610 04-10-05 167263 112488 05-10-05 167042 112430 06-10-05 167043 112463 07-10-05 167203 113415 AS Summary 20560 Number of ASes in routing system 8524 Number of ASes announcing only one prefix 1506 Largest number of prefixes announced by an AS AS7018 : ATT-INTERNET4 - AT&T WorldNet Services 91327744 Largest address span announced by an AS (/32s) AS721 : DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center Aggregation Summary The algorithm used in this report proposes aggregation only when there is a precise match using the AS path, so as to preserve traffic transit policies. Aggregation is also proposed across non-advertised address space ('holes'). --- 07Oct05 --- ASnum NetsNow NetsAggr NetGain % Gain Description Table 168748 113427 55321 32.8% All ASes AS4323 1175 233 942 80.2% TWTC - Time Warner Telecom AS18566 858 8 850 99.1% COVAD - Covad Communications AS721 1076 314 762 70.8% DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center AS4134 988 249 739 74.8% CHINANET-BACKBONE No.31,Jin-rong Street AS7018 1506 984 522 34.7% ATT-INTERNET4 - AT&T WorldNet Services AS22773 545 33 512 93.9% CCINET-2 - Cox Communications Inc. AS3602 570 110 460 80.7% SPRINT-CA-AS - Sprint Canada Inc. AS6197 942 545 397 42.1% BATI-ATL - BellSouth Network Solutions, Inc AS17676 470 105 365 77.7% JPNIC-JP-ASN-BLOCK Japan Network Information Center AS6467 402 52 350 87.1% ESPIRECOMM - e.spire Communications, Inc. AS15270 341 28 313 91.8% AS-PAETEC-NET - PaeTec.net -a division of PaeTecCommunications, Inc. AS4766 604 292 312 51.7% KIXS-AS-KR Korea Telecom AS812 317 25 292 92.1% ROGERS-CABLE - Rogers Cable Inc. AS14654 293 6 287 98.0% WAYPORT - Wayport AS9583 802 521 281 35.0% SIFY-AS-IN Sify Limited AS6167 333 59 274 82.3% CELLCO-PART - Cellco Partnership AS9929 320 46 274 85.6% CNCNET-CN China Netcom Corp. AS19916 369 99 270 73.2% ASTRUM-0001 - OLM LLC AS6140 420 164 256 61.0% IMPSAT-USA - ImpSat AS17488 336 84 252 75.0% HATHWAY-NET-AP Hathway IP Over Cable Internet AS1239 855 604 251 29.4% SPRINTLINK - Sprint AS5668 477 229 248 52.0% AS-5668 - CenturyTel Internet Holdings, Inc. AS9498 347 99 248 71.5% BBIL-AP BHARTI BT INTERNET LTD. AS1221 758 519 239 31.5% ASN-TELSTRA Telstra Pty Ltd AS19115 264 25 239 90.5% CHARTER-LEBANON - Charter Communications AS2386 926 689 237 25.6% INS-AS - AT&T Data Communications Services AS18101 259 26 233 90.0% RIL-IDC Reliance Infocom Ltd Internet Data Centre, AS6198 474 250 224 47.3% BATI-MIA - BellSouth Network Solutions, Inc AS11456 287 74 213 74.2% NUVOX - NuVox Communications, Inc. AS16814 297 84 213 71.7% NSS S.A. Total 17611 6556 11055 62.8% Top 30 total Possible Bogus Routes 24.246.0.0/17 AS7018 ATT-INTERNET4 - AT&T WorldNet Services 24.246.78.0/24 AS25994 NPG-001 - NPG Cable, INC 24.246.128.0/18 AS7018 ATT-INTERNET4 - AT&T WorldNet Services 64.17.32.0/24 AS13488 CBWU-13488 - Continental Broadband Florida, Inc DBA WebUnited 64.17.33.0/24 AS13488 CBWU-13488 - Continental Broadband Florida, Inc DBA WebUnited 64.17.37.0/24 AS13488 CBWU-13488 - Continental Broadband Florida, Inc DBA WebUnited 64.46.0.0/18 AS15277 I-NET - INET OF NEW MEXICO 64.127.0.0/18 AS7018 ATT-INTERNET4 - AT&T WorldNet Services 66.37.96.0/20 AS3764 IA-HOU-AS - Internet America, Inc. 66.187.96.0/24 AS10026 ANC Asia Netcom Corporation 66.187.100.0/24 AS18194 PMMSI-AS-AP Philippine Multi-Media 66.187.101.0/24 AS18194 PMMSI-AS-AP Philippine Multi-Media 66.187.102.0/24 AS18194 PMMSI-AS-AP Philippine Multi-Media 66.187.103.0/24 AS18194 PMMSI-AS-AP Philippine Multi-Media 66.187.104.0/24 AS18194 PMMSI-AS-AP Philippine Multi-Media 66.187.105.0/24 AS18194 PMMSI-AS-AP Philippine Multi-Media 66.187.106.0/24 AS18194 PMMSI-AS-AP Philippine Multi-Media 66.187.108.0/24 AS10026 ANC Asia Netcom Corporation 66.187.109.0/24 AS10026 ANC Asia Netcom Corporation 66.205.206.0/24 AS21510 TRISTAR - Tristar Communications 66.235.158.0/23 AS7018 ATT-INTERNET4 - AT&T WorldNet Services 85.129.3.0/24 AS14585 CIFNET - CIFNet, Inc. 85.129.4.0/24 AS14585 CIFNET - CIFNet, Inc. 87.237.8.0/21 AS34465 BENESOL-AS Belgian Network Solutions 89.192.0.0/16 AS12654 RIPE-NCC-RIS-AS RIPE NCC RIS Project. 89.255.248.0/21 AS12654 RIPE-NCC-RIS-AS RIPE NCC RIS Project. 90.192.0.0/16 AS12654 RIPE-NCC-RIS-AS RIPE NCC RIS Project. 90.255.248.0/21 AS12654 RIPE-NCC-RIS-AS RIPE NCC RIS Project. 91.192.0.0/16 AS12654 RIPE-NCC-RIS-AS RIPE NCC RIS Project. 91.255.248.0/21 AS12654 RIPE-NCC-RIS-AS RIPE NCC RIS Project. 132.0.0.0/10 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center 137.0.0.0/13 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center 138.136.0.0/13 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center 151.135.0.0/16 AS4763 TELSTRANZ-AS TelstraClear Ltd 158.0.0.0/13 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center 163.142.0.0/16 AS2500 JPNIC-ASBLOCK-AP JPNIC 190.192.193.0/24 AS3301 TELIANET-SWEDEN TeliaNet Sweden 192.30.93.0/24 AS17757 HPAUS-AP HP Australia 192.30.94.0/24 AS17757 HPAUS-AP HP Australia 192.40.105.0/24 AS5515 SONERA-GLOBAL-IP Sonera Solution Autonomous System 192.43.230.0/24 AS7575 AARNET-AS-AP Australian Academic and Reasearch Network (AARNet) 192.44.0.0/19 AS702 AS702 MCI EMEA - Commercial IP service provider in Europe 192.44.0.0/24 AS5501 FRAUNHOFER-CLUSTER-BW Fraunhofer Gesellschaft 192.70.164.0/24 AS25689 NRCNET-AS - National Research Council of Canada 192.72.0.0/16 AS4780 SEEDNET Digital United Inc. 192.72.0.0/18 AS4780 SEEDNET Digital United Inc. 192.72.192.0/18 AS4780 SEEDNET Digital United Inc. 192.81.182.0/24 AS719 ELISA-AS Elisa Oyj 192.81.183.0/24 AS719 ELISA-AS Elisa Oyj 192.81.184.0/24 AS719 ELISA-AS Elisa Oyj 192.88.99.0/24 AS559 SWITCH SWITCH, Swiss Education and Research Network 192.96.1.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.2.0/24 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.3.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.5.0/24 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.7.0/24 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.8.0/24 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.10.0/24 AS5713 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.11.0/24 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.12.0/24 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.13.0/24 AS16637 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.14.0/24 AS16637 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.15.0/24 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.20.0/23 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.22.0/24 AS7460 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.25.0/24 AS6083 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.32.0/24 AS2905 UUNET-ZA uunet south africa 192.96.34.0/24 AS10474 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.36.0/24 AS5713 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.37.0/24 AS10474 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.38.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.43.0/24 AS5713 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.46.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.51.0/24 AS5713 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.57.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.58.0/24 AS16416 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.81.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.82.0/23 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.84.0/23 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.87.0/24 AS2905 UUNET-ZA uunet south africa 192.96.88.0/24 AS2905 UUNET-ZA uunet south africa 192.96.89.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.90.0/23 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.92.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.94.0/23 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.96.0/24 AS2905 UUNET-ZA uunet south africa 192.96.97.0/24 AS2905 UUNET-ZA uunet south africa 192.96.98.0/23 AS2905 UUNET-ZA uunet south africa 192.96.109.0/24 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.120.0/21 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.128.0/22 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.132.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.133.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.134.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.139.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.140.0/24 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.142.0/24 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.147.0/24 AS2905 UUNET-ZA uunet south africa 192.96.150.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.177.0/24 AS6083 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.193.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.194.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.247.0/24 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.248.0/23 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.250.0/24 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.251.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.96.252.0/24 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 192.107.104.0/24 AS6458 GUATEL 192.119.135.0/24 AS270 PSCNI-AS - National Aeronautics and Space Administration 192.124.252.0/22 AS680 DFN-IP service G-WiN 192.133.6.0/24 AS10282 EQUANT-CEEUR EQUANT AS for Central and Eastern Europe region 192.135.50.0/24 AS7018 ATT-INTERNET4 - AT&T WorldNet Services 192.136.53.0/24 AS8346 SONATEL-AS Autonomous System 192.153.144.0/21 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center 192.172.0.0/19 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center 192.188.208.0/20 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center 192.200.100.0/24 AS7018 ATT-INTERNET4 - AT&T WorldNet Services 193.16.156.0/24 AS31494 DEVICE-MOBILE-INFONETS-AS Joint Stock Company "INFONETS" 193.32.19.0/24 AS702 AS702 MCI EMEA - Commercial IP service provider in Europe 193.32.20.0/23 AS702 AS702 MCI EMEA - Commercial IP service provider in Europe 193.36.1.0/24 AS8220 COLT COLT Telecommunications 193.37.69.0/24 AS2856 BT-UK-AS BTnet UK Regional network 193.37.236.0/24 AS702 AS702 MCI EMEA - Commercial IP service provider in Europe 193.110.77.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 Level 3 Communications 193.110.78.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 Level 3 Communications 193.110.79.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 Level 3 Communications 193.110.97.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 Level 3 Communications 194.31.227.0/24 AS21461 TRANSFAIRNET Transfair-net GmbH Krefeld 194.32.174.0/23 AS8426 CLARANET-AS ClaraNET 194.59.176.0/20 AS1273 CW Cable & Wireless 194.59.178.0/24 AS8481 TRANSNET transnet INTERNET Services 194.153.156.0/24 AS24865 KMITCHELL-AS Keith Mitchell's Network 194.246.72.0/23 AS8893 ARTFILES-AS Artfiles New Media GmbH 195.234.43.0/24 AS31424 NEXELLENT-AS AS31424 is operated by: 196.3.162.0/24 AS6083 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.6.108.0/24 AS5713 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.6.121.0/24 AS5713 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.6.129.0/24 AS12258 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.6.133.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.6.147.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.6.149.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.6.150.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.6.151.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.6.153.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.6.175.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.6.176.0/23 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.6.183.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.6.184.0/24 AS23058 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.6.196.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.6.198.0/24 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.6.199.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.6.201.0/24 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.6.208.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.6.211.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.6.212.0/23 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.6.212.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.6.214.0/24 AS10474 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.6.221.0/24 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.6.222.0/23 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.6.237.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.6.241.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.6.243.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.6.251.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.6.254.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.10.101.0/24 AS16637 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.10.104.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.10.112.0/22 AS17148 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.10.116.0/24 AS17148 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.10.117.0/24 AS17148 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.10.118.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.10.119.0/24 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.10.121.0/24 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.10.124.0/22 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.10.128.0/23 AS11845 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.10.130.0/23 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.10.132.0/22 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.10.136.0/22 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.10.140.0/22 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.10.150.0/23 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.10.152.0/21 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.10.160.0/19 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.10.192.0/21 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.10.203.0/24 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.10.204.0/22 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.10.208.0/22 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.10.212.0/23 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.10.224.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.10.229.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.10.231.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.10.248.0/23 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.10.249.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.0.0/20 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.16.0/21 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.24.0/22 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.28.0/23 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.30.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.40.0/21 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.56.0/23 AS16637 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.58.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.62.0/23 AS2905 UUNET-ZA uunet south africa 196.11.69.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.70.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.72.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.98.0/24 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.105.0/24 AS2905 UUNET-ZA uunet south africa 196.11.106.0/23 AS2905 UUNET-ZA uunet south africa 196.11.108.0/24 AS2905 UUNET-ZA uunet south africa 196.11.109.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.110.0/23 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.112.0/23 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.114.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.116.0/22 AS2905 UUNET-ZA uunet south africa 196.11.116.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.120.0/23 AS2905 UUNET-ZA uunet south africa 196.11.122.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.124.0/24 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.126.0/24 AS17148 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.127.0/24 AS17148 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.128.0/24 AS17148 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.129.0/24 AS17148 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.130.0/24 AS17148 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.131.0/24 AS17148 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.132.0/24 AS17148 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.133.0/24 AS17148 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.134.0/24 AS17148 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.135.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.136.0/21 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.144.0/24 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.146.0/24 AS12258 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.147.0/24 AS12258 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.148.0/23 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.170.0/23 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.172.0/23 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.174.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.188.0/23 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.188.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.190.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.192.0/22 AS16637 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.196.0/24 AS16637 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.197.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.200.0/24 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.205.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.209.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.211.0/24 AS2905 UUNET-ZA uunet south africa 196.11.212.0/24 AS2905 UUNET-ZA uunet south africa 196.11.233.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.235.0/24 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.238.0/24 AS2905 UUNET-ZA uunet south africa 196.11.239.0/24 AS16637 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.240.0/22 AS16637 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.244.0/23 AS16637 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.246.0/24 AS16637 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.11.251.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.13.1.0/24 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.13.2.0/23 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.13.4.0/22 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.13.8.0/21 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.13.16.0/21 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.13.24.0/22 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.13.28.0/23 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.13.30.0/24 AS2018 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.13.31.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.13.32.0/22 AS226 LOS-NETTOS-AS - Los Nettos 196.13.32.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.13.33.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.13.35.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.13.36.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.13.40.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.13.41.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.13.42.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.13.48.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.13.49.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.13.53.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.13.54.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.13.55.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.13.56.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.13.58.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.13.60.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.13.62.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.13.63.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.13.64.0/21 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.13.72.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 196.13.73.0/24 AS3741 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 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Citizens Property Insurance Corporation 204.48.119.0/24 AS29912 CITIZENS-PROPERTY-INSURANCE-CORPORATION - Citizens Property Insurance Corporation 204.154.125.0/24 AS3952 TELLABS-ASN - TELLABS Operations, Inc. 204.154.126.0/24 AS3952 TELLABS-ASN - TELLABS Operations, Inc. 204.154.127.0/24 AS3952 TELLABS-ASN - TELLABS Operations, Inc. 205.150.0.0/15 AS701 ALTERNET-AS - UUNET Technologies, Inc. 206.108.96.0/19 AS577 BACOM - Bell Advanced Communications Inc. 206.128.104.0/21 AS11709 VIC - VIRTUAL INTERACTIVE CENTER 206.167.57.0/24 AS376 RISQ-AS - Reseau Interordinateurs Scientique Quebecois (RISQ) 206.191.64.0/18 AS15290 ALLST-15290 - Allstream Corp. Corporation Allstream 206.191.96.0/19 AS15290 ALLST-15290 - Allstream Corp. Corporation Allstream 207.231.96.0/19 AS11194 NUNETPA - NuNet Inc 208.138.48.0/20 AS6971 ESCH - Eschelon Telecommunications, Inc. 209.40.192.0/21 AS6487 CyberNet de Guatemala S.A. 209.40.200.0/21 AS6487 CyberNet de Guatemala S.A. 209.40.208.0/21 AS6487 CyberNet de Guatemala S.A. 209.40.216.0/21 AS6487 CyberNet de Guatemala S.A. 209.205.69.0/24 AS21578 Universidad autonoma de Bucaramanga 209.205.70.0/24 AS21578 Universidad autonoma de Bucaramanga 209.205.81.0/24 AS15066 SkyNet de Colombia S.A. 209.205.82.0/24 AS15066 SkyNet de Colombia S.A. 209.205.84.0/24 AS15066 SkyNet de Colombia S.A. 209.213.32.0/19 AS10629 INTERPAC - Inter-Pacific Network Services 209.251.0.0/19 AS11036 SISCOM - SISCOM, Inc 216.37.110.0/23 AS4264 CERNET-ASN-BLOCK - California Education and Research Federation Network 216.82.160.0/20 AS20481 CALYX-NL Calyx Internet B.V. Netherlands 216.96.128.0/18 AS7018 ATT-INTERNET4 - AT&T WorldNet Services 216.178.37.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 Level 3 Communications 216.178.39.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 Level 3 Communications 216.178.42.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 Level 3 Communications 216.178.43.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 Level 3 Communications 216.228.64.0/21 AS6295 WHIDBEY1 - Whidbey Internet Services 216.240.240.0/20 AS7018 ATT-INTERNET4 - AT&T WorldNet Services 216.240.242.0/24 AS7018 ATT-INTERNET4 - AT&T WorldNet Services Please see http://www.cidr-report.org for the full report ------------------------------------ Copies of this report are mailed to: nanog(a)merit.edu eof-list(a)ripe.net apops(a)apops.net routing-wg(a)ripe.net afnog(a)afnog.org

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RE: Peering vs SFI (was Re: Cogent/Level 3 depeering)
by Michael.Dillon＠btradianz.com 07 Oct '05

07 Oct '05

> Would you care to speculate on which party receives the greater benefit: > the sender of bytes, or the receiver of bytes? Nope! I'll let the economists argue about that question. Probably on some other list where people know a lot more about the issue of "value" than on this list. --Michael Dillon

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musings ....
by bmanning＠vacation.karoshi.com 07 Oct '05

07 Oct '05

on peering, transit, and why Vadim should be flogged... :) Vadim (i think) frist coined the term Tier-N for classifying ISPs. Nice marketing term. wrt peering, tranist, and the relative importance of communications channels... ) the PSTN is not ubiquitious ... it is NOT possible to dial and be connected to every known telephone number from every/any possible number. Goverments do block access to some other places they find objectionable. ) "the Internet" is and (nearly) always has been a collection of networks, the interconnection of which is bound by policies. those policies are there to restrict/interdict/block traffic of one form or another. (how many of you -want- BGP w/o the policy knobs?) ) if communications w/ someone or some entity is critical, it behoves me to ensure that such channels are available. that may entail me owning the ROW, the transmission media, and the CPE at each end. Or, for less critical channels, I might be able to aquire such services from suppliers. For even less critical communications, I might even presume that my suppliers and their various associates and fellow travelers in the IP pipe business will get my various bits to the random places that I try to send them to on a whim. And... that the other bits will get back to me. :) don't want to talk about content. :( --bill (who has enable, has negotiated peering and transit, and is dumbfounded at the length of this thread)

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RE: Peering vs SFI (was Re: Cogent/Level 3 depeering)
by Schliesser, Benson 06 Oct '05

06 Oct '05

Michael Dillon wrote: > P.S. would the Internet be worse off if all traffic > exchange was paid for and there was no settlement > free interconnect at all? I.e. paid peering, paid > full transit and paid partial transit on the menu? Would you care to speculate on which party receives the greater benefit: the sender of bytes, or the receiver of bytes? If both the sender and receiver are being billed for the traffic by their respective (different) service providers (all other issues being equal) is one provider in a better position than the other? Cheers, -Benson

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MPLScon 2006 Call for Presentations
by Irwin Lazar 06 Oct '05

06 Oct '05

The Call for Presentations for MPLScon 2006 is now available at http://www.mplscon.com/speaker/submit_pres.html MPLScon 2006 takes place May 22-26 in New York City. Please see the above web site for additional details or contact me with any questions regarding speaking at the event. >> Irwin -- Irwin Lazar, Conference Director, MPLScon http://www.mplscon.com ilazar(a)mplscon.com Phone: 703-742-9659 AIM/iChat/Skype/Gizmo: imlazar

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RE: Cogent/Level 3 depeering
by Hannigan, Martin 06 Oct '05

06 Oct '05

= > The dialup case results in a very large number of users of a large > number of ISPs being single-homed to one or the other of these > outfits. Keep that in mind too when you next sign a contract for > wholesale dialup service. Dialup costs are $5 a month or less wholesale. What do you expect? -M<

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Public Works Peering
by J. Oquendo 06 Oct '05

06 Oct '05

On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 Michael.Dillon(a)btradianz.com wrote: > > > /* tip never write e-mail within the first hour of your waking morning > */ > > Let me be the first to congratulate you on such > an excellent idea. > > --Michael Dillon > > Now that I had time to marinate weird ideas even further, this is how my previous idea `could` work for all parties. Of course those making financial decisions would likely hate this idea since it would somehow manage to "hurt" their business in their eyes... States (or countries) would create a massive public NAP which would be peered in each state. Guaranteed not to go down. Well 99.99999% (snicker) guaranteed not to falter. This network would be funded by taxpayer dollars and anyone wanting to peer would pay solely enough to maintain this NAP. A consortium of companies using this NAP would engineer the network since most times government officials have little clue on the engineering side of things, nor would they understand it more than those already in the industry. This NAP would be unbiased as to "my bgp tables are bigger than yours" arguments, and would pass traffic unbiased to most destinations without flaw. I'm not one for any type of government intervention but at current pace, how long would it be before the lawsuits start coming out of de-peering (is that actually a term). In the long run it is not beneficial in my eyes for companies to start shafting each other via capitalistic methods of who will pass traffic to whomever else. I know for one as the end user, I would be highly upset if two separate companies depeered and affected my company's workflow. I would also be even more upset if somehow de-peering affected my life/lifestyle or that of my family in some capacity. Think of something along the lines of dare I say "national security" for INSERT_YOUR_COUNTRY_HERE. What if two main infrastructures were broken because someone de-peered from another provider. Far Fetched Scenario: Lt. Jones "Sir we've lost all connections with $FOOBAR_DEPARTMENT... People can die if we don't get the proper information..." Senior Lt. Doe "How did this happen! We have a delivery of medical supplies... Track them down." Lt. Jones "We can't sir. We have no connectivity" Senior Lt. Doe "What do you mean" Lt. Jones "Well a provider de-peered..." Sure it's far fetched to a degree, but there are industries outside of government that could seriously be affected by de-peering actions. Health industries, say the insurance companies right now helping out natural disaster victims... I could think of an insane amount of scenarios that could happen because of actions such as those taken by L3 and Cogent. Somewhere along this thread is a VOIP thread spinoff... So what about people who can't dial (e-)911 right now. People can die if you think about the worst case scenario because of nothing more than greed. So for those who reply back with some "go to hell" like message I suggest you go back to your core and read up on ethics and morals before putting a dollar sign on a life. /* EOF MORAL RAMBLINGS */ Anyhow, I could see a benefit to having say a public works NAP. Outside of monopolistic reach working rather well. =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ J. Oquendo GPG Key ID 0x97B43D89 http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x97B43D89 "How a man plays the game shows something of his character - how he loses shows all" - Mr. Luckey =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ J. Oquendo GPG Key ID 0x97B43D89 http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x97B43D89 "How a man plays the game shows something of his character - how he loses shows all" - Mr. Luckey

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Fw: Peering vs SFI (was Re: Cogent/Level 3 depeering)
by Michael.Dillon＠btradianz.com 06 Oct '05

06 Oct '05

> Time to quote Geoff Huston one more time. > > "A true peer relationship is based on the supposition that either party > can terminate the interconnection relationship and that the other party > does not consider such an action a competitively hostile act. If one > party has a high reliance on the interconnection arrangement and the > other does not, then the most stable business outcome is that this > reliance is expressed in terms of a service contract with the other > party, and a provider/client relationship is established" Those people less versed in the art of peering may not understand why the peer who has been disconnected does not consider the action to be competitively hostile. Simply put, in a true peer relationship, the party who terminates the interconnection is shooting themselves in the foot and inflicting as much commercial pain on themselves as they are inflicting on their peer. The reason that it is not "competitively" hostile is because it does not increase the ability of either peer to compete. Rather, it damages both of them equally because true peers are equals to begin with. As vijay points out, this whole issue is not really about true peering because such equality between peering partners is rare. It's really about the business case for settlement free interconnect and that is rather more complex than merely the choice between "free" traffic exchange and paid transit. --Michael Dillon P.S. would the Internet be worse off if all traffic exchange was paid for and there was no settlement free interconnect at all? I.e. paid peering, paid full transit and paid partial transit on the menu?

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