February 2003 - NANOG - lists.nanog.org

Re: VoIP QOS best practices
by Stephen Sprunk 11 Feb '03

11 Feb '03

Thus spake "Ray Burkholder" <ray(a)oneunified.net> > QoS is important on T1 circuits and makes voice higher priority. QOS is a much broader subject than just giving voice priority treatment. > Voice can even be done on sub T1 circuits with excellent results. Indeed. I've unfortunately had many instances where a company runs 5+ VoIP calls -- in addition to data traffic -- over a 64k circuit with the line staying at 95-100% capacity 24x7. It's not easy, but it's doable. S

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re: BST - BGP Scalable Transport
by Ron da Silva 11 Feb '03

11 Feb '03

Van/Cengiz/Kedar, Questions that missed the cutoff at the end of your preso: Most operators have some per-peer inbound policies. Since the next hop adjacency may move around due to chaning primaries, where do you configure the policy ? (all routers?) Also, some of those polices include modifying attributes before forwarded the update internally via iBGP. Where does the policy get implemented? (on the NA box?) -ron

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RE: VoIP QOS best practices
by Charles Youse 11 Feb '03

11 Feb '03

But I could conceivably have 10+ voice channels over a T-1, I still don't quite understand how, without prioritizing voice traffic, the quality won't degrade... C. -----Original Message----- From: Bill Woodcock [mailto:woody@pch.net] Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 1:20 PM To: Charles Youse Cc: nanog(a)nanog.org Subject: RE: VoIP QOS best practices > My main concern is that some of the sites that will be tied with > VoIP have only T-1 data connectivity, and I don't want a surge in > traffic to degrade the voice quality, or cause disconnections or > what-have-you. People are more accustomed to data networks going > down; voice networks going down will make people shout. It works fine on 64k connections, okay on many 9600bps connections. T1 is way more than is necessary. -Bill

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VOIP on the net from your PDA?
by Michael.Dillon＠radianz.com 11 Feb '03

11 Feb '03

If any of you have the Sharp Zaurus SL-5500 (or the C700 -- hi Avi!), have you tried doing VOIP over Wi-Fi and the net using tkcPhone http://www.thekompany.com/embedded/tkcphone/ or any other VOIP software? What kind of quality do you get with this? If this type of PDA phone application really does work as well as Bill's comments would indicate, then I think it will drive a lot of voice traffic onto the Internet. We really need to play around with this stuff (voice) ourselves and understand it better because there are opportunities here with all the turmoil surrounding the so-called shift to 3G cellular. Here in England, BT recently ran some TV commercials to introduce free evening and weekend calling on the cell network by showing a couple using a cellphone upstairs in the baby's room to replace the broken baby monitor by dialling into the home phone in the livingroom. This is just one example of how changing the pricing structure could radically change people's behavior in using a service. -- Michael Dillon

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TELEHOUSE America & Internet Software Consortium Develop DNS F-root Server in New York & Los Angeles
by Paul Vixie 11 Feb '03

11 Feb '03

Deal Enables ISC to Mirror DNS Root Server in Additional U.S. Locations http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030210/102340_1.html

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RE: VoIP QOS best practices
by Ray Burkholder 11 Feb '03

11 Feb '03

Ok, I've taken all the courses and done some stuff myself. Here is roughly what to expect. It IS important to do QoS at the CPE. This ensures that during times of congestion, voice traffic gets out to the real world in a timely fashion. In networks supported by Nanog people, usually they have bandwdith to spare, and so QoS isn't necessarily important. The issue is when traffic crosses ISP boundaries, because many times these links are clogged. It used to be you had to stay away from MAEWEST and such because of big packet drops and delays (big no-no's for voice). Things are getting better in this regard because of a larger number of cross connects between carriers. General rule of thumb used by the big Voip guys is to send most of your voip traffic through what could loosely be termed as Tier 1 providers (please don't flame me on this remark). They you can be pretty sure that there is much excess bandwidth, fast switches, and fast transit time with little drop out (all important criteria for good voice quality). The issues are always when crossing carriers, and at the network edge. These are the troublesome spots. Some solutions include peering with multiple Tier 1 providers, and doing traffic engineering to ensure your traffic goes through the best provider to the end destination, etc, ... When you get into IP Telphony in a LAN environment I can get into a whole other discussion of myth dispelling. For example, just because your LAN switch has underutilized GigE and FE ports, did you know that you can still suffer horrible voice quality? QoS fixes this in a LAN enviroment which could be viewed as bursty system where as internet switches tend to be more smooth flow in nature (if I'm wrong on this one, I'd like to hear about it). Ray Burkholder > -----Original Message----- > From: Charles Youse [mailto:cyouse@register.com] > Sent: February 10, 2003 14:03 > To: Bill Woodcock; nanog(a)nanog.org > Subject: RE: VoIP QOS best practices > > > > That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense - is it that QoS > doesn't work as advertised? > > As someone who is looking to deploy VoIP in the near future > this is of particular interest. > > C. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Woodcock [mailto:woody@pch.net] > Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 12:48 PM > To: nanog(a)nanog.org > Subject: Re: VoIP QOS best practices > > > > > > Looking for some links to case studies or other > documentation which > > > describe implementing VoIP between sites which do not > have point to > > > point links. From what I understand, you can't > enforce end-to-end QoS > > > on a public network, nor over tunnels. I'm wondering > if my basic > > > understanding of this is flawed and in the case that > it's not, how is > > > this dealt with if the ISPs of said sites don't have > any QoS policies? > > QoS is completely unnecessary for VoIP. Doesn't appear to > make a bit of > difference. Any relationship between the two is just FUD from people > who've never used VoIP. > > -Bill > > >

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Regional Exchange Peering Forum
by Pete Kruckenberg 11 Feb '03

11 Feb '03

As a follow-up to the IX Operator Panel today, a Web site and mailing list have been set up to focus and expand the interests of regional exchange points. The REP Forum is intended for anyone who is interested in discussion and development of regional exchanges. This includes operators, participants and anyone interested in exploring or creating a regional exchange point. The REP Forum hopes to collect and share the knowledge and experience that has been developed by people who have built regional exchanges. The mailing list will be used to discuss and expand that knowledge-base and share ideas between REP projects. The REP Forum will provide information to create a regional exchange, or to make your current REP project more valuable (and hopefully more successful). This will initially focus on North American regional exchanges, though if there is interest from other areas of the world we will find a way accomodate those. The REP Forum web site is at http://www.rep.net . The mailing list is available by sending "subscribe" to forum-request(a)lists.rep.net. If you know of regional exchang operators that might not subscribe to the NANOG mailing list, please forward this message to them, or send me their contact information. Thanks. Pete.

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Streaming problem?
by Paul Thornton 11 Feb '03

11 Feb '03

Is there something hoopy up with the streaming? Attempts to connect are eventually failing, complaing that: rtsp://198.108.1.36/broadcast/NANOG/encoder/nanog27.rm is not found. Any fixes at the far end welcome... -- Paul

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Spam Cost Resources [ trustworthy ]
by Martin Hannigan 11 Feb '03

11 Feb '03

Does anyone have a resource that they believe in when it refers to how much spam really costs Network operatos? http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/09/magazine/09SPAM.html I'm trying to do some validation. Thanks. -M

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OC-48 prices
by Brian Cashman 11 Feb '03

11 Feb '03

I'm trying to get a idea of what the current going rate is for intercity (not metro) OC-48. Can anyone give me some pricing information (even ballpark figures)? Pricing per mile would be helpful. Thanks, Brian Cashman Merit

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