June 2001 - NANOG - lists.nanog.org

RE: Qwest.Net / US West.Net
by Steven J. Sobol 28 Jun '01

28 Jun '01

On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Ben Daniel wrote: > Didn't know starnet did Phoenix - do they? Yes. go to http://JustThe.net/local/ and enter an AC 480, 602 or (I can't remember what the other area code is) phone number... -- JustThe.net LLC - Steve "Web Dude" Sobol, CTO - sjsobol(a)JustThe.net Donate a portion of your monthly ISP bill to your favorite charity or non-profit organization! E-mail me for details.

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1.0.0.0/8 given away? Yay???
by rmg 27 Jun '01

27 Jun '01

As usual, another bogus advertisement: 1.0.0.0/8 *[BGP/170] 10:24:15, localpref 100, from x.x.x.x AS path: 701 174 3976 9781 I [...] AS path: 3561 5511 4766 9781 I [...] AS path: 1 5511 4766 9781 I Does somebody speak Korean? person: KIM KIHYUN address: TAEWOOL CO,LTD address: Seoul phone: +82-2-522-1991 e-mail: khkim(a)taewool.co.kr rob

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OT: Useful PDA software
by Frank T. Suraci 27 Jun '01

27 Jun '01

Hello all, I'm new to NANOG, and I'm just getting started in the field. My question is simple, can anyone recommend some good software for my handspring Visor? I was hoping to find sw that could keep track of networks, time spent on projects, and well anything that the pros find useful. Any input is much appreciated. Please repley off list as I don't want to add more OT clutter to the list. Thanks Frank S. ftsuraci(a)hcrn.com

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Re: Exodus Down
by Richard A. Steenbergen 27 Jun '01

27 Jun '01

On Sat, Jun 23, 2001 at 05:06:42PM -0800, Dee McKinney wrote: > > This from the SuSE Linux mail list may help :-) > > >>>>> Forwarded message from "Lewis E. Wolfgang" <wolfgang(a)nosc.mil> > > Something is definitely rotten here. > > Whois reports: > > Server Name: SLASHDOT.ORG.SUCKS.COMPARED.TO.JIMPHILLIPS.ORG The only thing rotten is the mellon inside your skull... This is someone playing around with domains in the whois database so that when you search for slashdot.org it comes up with that as well... Another example is from microsoft.com, one of the results is: MICROSOFT.COM.WHOIS.RESULTS.MAKE.A.GREAT.HUMOUR-LIST.COM The levels of stupidity generated when slashdot is up are bad enough, lets not try to set new records while it is down. -- Richard A Steenbergen <ras(a)e-gerbil.net> http://www.e-gerbil.net/ras PGP Key ID: 0x138EA177 (67 29 D7 BC E8 18 3E DA B2 46 B3 D8 14 36 FE B6)

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Re: OT: new NANOG shirt?
by Bill Nickless 27 Jun '01

27 Jun '01

I wouldn't try a NANOG range day in Oakland CA, but we definitely could have done something like that in Scottsdale or Atlanta. Does anyone know where NANOG 24 will be held? Does Eric S Raymond ever go to NANOG? http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/geeks-with-guns/ What happened to the ties on the NANOG shirts? :) At 08:43 PM 6/26/2001 +0000, scott w wrote: >The next shirt. A picture of a bunch of folks in NANOG T-shirts with guns >firing at backhoes... ;-) > >scott > >On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Christian Nielsen wrote: > > > maybe there should be a nanog range day :) > > > > On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Deepak Jain wrote: > > > > > Whoever stopped investing in guns? [oops, did I say that outloud?] > > > > > > Deepak === Bill Nickless http://www.mcs.anl.gov/people/nickless +1 630 252 7390 PGP:0E 0F 16 80 C5 B1 69 52 E1 44 1A A5 0E 1B 74 F7 nickless(a)mcs.anl.gov

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Re: Global BGP - 2001-06-23 - Vendor X's statement...
by Richard A. Steenbergen 27 Jun '01

27 Jun '01

On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 01:38:28PM -0400, Joe Abley wrote: > > How about if there was a tool you could run against a BGP speaker > which sent a series of deliberately pathological and bogus updates, > and logged the behaviour of the box under test? > > I haven't heard anybody say that vendor X, Y or Z are refusing to > fix bugs when they are pointed out to them (quite the contrary). > The trick would seem to be to report the bugs before they are found > in the wild. > > What BGP acceptance tests do people currently run against prospective > vendors' hardware? QA Robot http://advanced.comms.agilent.com/qarobot/ -- Richard A Steenbergen <ras(a)e-gerbil.net> http://www.e-gerbil.net/ras PGP Key ID: 0x138EA177 (67 29 D7 BC E8 18 3E DA B2 46 B3 D8 14 36 FE B6)

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RE: Global BGP - 2001-06-23 - Vendor X's statement...
by Sean Donelan 27 Jun '01

27 Jun '01

On Tue, 26 June 2001, "Richard A. Steenbergen" wrote: > On 26 Jun 2001, Sean Donelan wrote: > > There will always be cases where Vender A thinks they are correct and > > Vendor B thinks they are correct, and they differ. And you are > > correct, either the sender has done something wrong or the receiver > > has done something wrong, hence the Internet motto. > > But there there should be no room for debate, one side is right and the > other side is wrong. If there is really a grey area, the solution is to > fix the wording of the standards document, not to try and overlook the > problem. I'm not proposing we overlook the problem. However, software is very bad at deciding who is right and who is wrong. Other than malware, most vendor software does not deliberately send bad data. The software, or rather the programmer who wrote the software, thought the program was sending correct data. Later when humans looked at the data, humans decided the data was wrong and fixed the software. What do we do between the time the software makes an error, and time the humans can interven? Have the software, with no human oversight, nuke everything? The Blue Screen Of Death may be a very "safe" for software to do when it encounters an error. However, it is not a very good thing for system availability. I agree error handling is "hard." Aborting the entire BGP session makes the Internet more brittle than necessary. In the hours/days between the software sending the data, and the humans fixing it, the network was hurting a lot more than you would expect from a single bad route. The constant cycle of abort, reset, route flap was an amazing multiplier effect of one bad route. > I agree that in this case it is possible to have ignored the bad AS PATH > and drop the route without disturbing the session originating the bad > information. This is one specific example could probably have been handled > better with a non-fatal notification (with big red lights and buzzers). > However, it was unacceptable for that router to propagate the bad > information to others. I agree, you must have both sides (conservative send, and liberal receive). Sending bad data is not acceptable. Cisco should not send bad data. Crashing/aborting when you receive bad data isn't acceptable either. Bad data happens, Vendor X should not abort if it had other options. Sometimes there is no alternative besides aborting. However, the RFC makes aborting a requirement. There are errors BGP implementations could recover (with blinking red lights and loud buzzers). The RFC should give the option of continuing to implementations. I was following the standard isn't a good reason to crash. If following the standard causes the Internet to flap like a hummingbird for a day, we need to get the standard changed (as well as fix the existing implementations). These are not mutually exclusive goals. 1) Modify the standard so an error does not have as much impact worldwide 2) Fix the current implementations Yes, a pedestrian may have the right of way in the crosswalk. But proving your point by having the semi-truck flatten you isn't very smart.

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ARIN and RIPE
by Mike Smith 27 Jun '01

27 Jun '01

All, I have a customer that would like to setup two different sites...one in the US and one in the UK. These sites will be mutually exclusive so that they won't be load balancing between the two, the custom app that they will be running on the web servers will direct UK customers to the UK and US customers to the US. However they would like the US site to be a backup site for the UK. So that if there are any problems, the UK traffic will be routed to the US via bgp. My question is this. Can a company use the same AS globally and announce the same addresses out both Europe and the US if the ASN and NetBlocks were allocated from ARIN? They want to be able to take the addresses that they are announcing in their UK location, and announce them out of the US(in case of a disaster, for example), so that their UK customers can still get to a limited version of their site. Are there any problems with using ARIN allocated IP addresses anywhere in the world? I know this works technically, I'm just curious if any of the ISPs out there are filtering to keep European traffic limited to RIPE allocated IP addresses. And are there any problems of doing the same thing in Asia? Mike Smith __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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Is this normal?
by Larry Diffey 27 Jun '01

27 Jun '01

I've only been lurking here for a couple of days and I hope this isn't an inappropriate question for this group. No flames please if I shouldn't have posted this (or for the double negative); a good stern warning will do just fine. :-) The reason that I'm addressing this group is that I'm trying to get a perspective on provider policy and how decisions are made to do such things. If it's not a conscious decision but the result of um er human error, what mechanisms are in place; or should be in place in order to correct such issues. So here it is: I'm wondering if what I'm seeing in this trace route is normal provider behavior (I haven't seen this happen before now). My provider is @home and when ever I do a trace route I get the following results: 1 211 ms 20 ms 20 ms cr1-hfc10.alsv1.occa.home.net [24.0.216.1] 2 10 ms 20 ms 40 ms r1-ge2-0.alsv1.occa.home.net [24.1.160.1] 3 180 ms 20 ms 30 ms 10.0.242.77 4 80 ms 50 ms 20 ms 10.0.242.73 5 30 ms 291 ms 20 ms c1-pos5-0.anhmca1.home.net [24.7.74.73] ... rest of results omitted for brevity. As you can see, the third and fourth hop are advertising 10's and I wouldn't think a provider would want traffic passing through a private address space. Also, this is happening just as the traffic is leaving one facility and going to another (I don't know if that means anything). If you're interested alsv is Aliso Viejo and anhmca is Anaheim (both in Orange County, CA). I could be wrong but I'm fairly certain this has just been happening for the last few weeks. Maybe I never noticed before. I'd call @home about it but I know I'd get the run around and it would take 5 hours on the phone for someone just to tell me it's none of my business. Regards, Larry Diffey P.S. NANOG Range Day should include pictures of various vendor equipment. Pick whatever is frustrating you at the moment.

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Re: Cable Modem [really responsible engineering]
by Wojtek Zlobicki 27 Jun '01

27 Jun '01

Having tried the utility, I guess I need to put my foot in my mouth (please disregard my previous message)... I wonder how arping is able to get around the MAC broadcast filters. Very dangerous tool !! ----- Original Message ----- From: "PJ" <briareos(a)otherlands.net> To: "Wojtek Zlobicki" <wojtekz(a)idirect.com> Cc: <nanog(a)merit.edu> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 5:04 AM Subject: Re: Cable Modem [really responsible engineering] > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Wojtek Zlobicki wrote: > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chris Adams" <cmadams(a)hiwaay.net> > > To: <nanog(a)merit.edu> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 9:20 PM > > Subject: Re: Cable Modem [really responsible engineering] > > > > > > > > Also, how do you prevent the user from trying to forge someone else's > > > IP address or even MAC address in outgoing packets? Without protecting > > > against forged packets, I don't see how to provide accountability when > > > someone attacks. > > > > How would anyone find out anothers MAC. As long as you seperate each > > customer into their own bridge group, there is no way for them to find > > anothers MAC. As for forging IP's not much you can do about that. MAC > > address access list.. do they exists ? > > > > > > There is a neat little utility called arping that can return the MAC address of a > specified IP. Comes in handy for bypassing MAC address filters. > > PJ > > -- > Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature. > -- Helen Keller

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