February 1996 - NANOG - lists.nanog.org

Re: Resources regarding use of RFC 1597 addresses
by Paul Ferguson 19 Feb '96

19 Feb '96

You might want to poll the crowd over on the Firewalls List [firewalls(a)GreatCircle.com] - paul At 10:57 AM 2/19/96 -0800, Michael Dillon wrote: > >I've been experimenting with 10/8 addressing on m home LAN connected to >the Internet via a single static IP address. So far I've verified that it >is possible to use such a scenario for a small corporate LAN which mainly >needs basic WWW access and email, but I would like to find out how far I >can go with this. > >So, does anyone know of any resources on the net for building firewalls >using RFC1597 addressing? > >Michael Dillon Voice: +1-604-546-8022 >Memra Software Inc. Fax: +1-604-546-3049 >http://www.memra.com E-mail: michael(a)memra.com >

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Renumbering and the Feb 15-16 NANOG meeting
by Craig A. Huegen 19 Feb '96

19 Feb '96

As I sat in the auditorium listening to the speakers at the NANOG meeting Thursday and Friday, a realization came to me. Almost every speaker there who happened to talk about the problems with space and CIDR and what-not said "renumbering is a fact of life", or "renumbering is a simple method to solving these problems". While contemplating this, I realized that every speaker who said something along these lines really hasn't done massive renumbering to fulfill CIDR plans--they either have this HUGE block (i.e., major provider like SprintLink) that just needs to be aggregated on out-bound or aren't involved in the direct operation of NSP/ISP's. I've seen a specialty provider renumber about 15 class C's _twice_, the first because he changed providers and they urged him to CIDRize. He then had to change again when the first provider didn't live up to the contractual obligations. Because of a lack of planning on his part, he lost 20% of his customer space during/after these renumberings--customers don't want to put up with problems such as a) applications which compute the IP address into an equation with the license number, b) problems with _all_ parameters not being changed in terminal servers and hosts, c) DNS problems with off-site backup servers, and a few others that just generally made his customers not happy. (Keep in mind that "a)" above generally requires you to purchase new licenses from the software manufacturer.) The problem, you ask? I don't see very many resources available which help ISP's to renumber more easily--time line planners, reminder lists with commonly-missed parameters, etc. I realize that renumbering is a fact of life--my last post, however, shows my true feelings regarding most pre-CIDR blocks; that their providers should be willing to allow customers to keep using the space they allocated in the pre-CIDR days. If there are these renumbering resources available, make sure that the small and big providers alike are making them available to the customers who are willing to attempt a re-number. Make sure the customer service of the provider is willing to deal with the complexities of renumbering (and keep in mind it _IS_ a very complex project--EVERYTHING from IP addresses to static routes to applications which are hard-coded). Unfortunately, the ISP that I saw change providers didn't have this help at their fingertips--they could have potentially saved almost all of the customers they lost. My thanks go out to everyone who made this NANOG one of the best--keep up the good work! /cah

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Re: ISP list
by Russ Pagenkopf 19 Feb '96

19 Feb '96

On Sun, 18 Feb 1996, Bharat Ranjan wrote: > Is there a list of all the registered ISPs out there? Hope this is the right > place to ask this. Thanks... He he, registered, right. :-) Probably the best place to look is http://www.thelist.com/ rus

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Re: ISP list
by Michael Dillon 19 Feb '96

19 Feb '96

On Sun, 18 Feb 1996, Bharat Ranjan wrote: > > Is there a list of all the registered ISPs out there? Hope this is the right > place to ask this. Thanks... There is no such thing as a registered ISP, therefore there is no such list. Even the list at http://www.thelist.com only has about 50% of North American ISP's listed and less than that for other countries. Michael Dillon Voice: +1-604-546-8022 Memra Software Inc. Fax: +1-604-546-3049 http://www.memra.com E-mail: michael(a)memra.com

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Re: ISP list
by sob＠academ.com 19 Feb '96

19 Feb '96

I don't know of a list of "registered" ISPs. I don't know where one would register, per se. The list of ISPs that most folks point people at is http://thelist.com. Since folks have to sign-up to be on that list, I suppose that is a list of "registered" ISPs. -- Stan | Academ Consulting Services |internet: sob(a)academ.com Olan | For more info on academ, see this |uucp: {mcsun|amdahl}!academ!sob Barber | URL- http://www.academ.com/academ |Opinions expressed are only mine.

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ISP list
by Bharat Ranjan 18 Feb '96

18 Feb '96

Is there a list of all the registered ISPs out there? Hope this is the right place to ask this. Thanks... >> Bharat << mm mm sssss nnnnnn * Bharat Ranjan m m m s nnnnnnn * Network Engineer m m m sssss nn nn * Microsoft On-Line Services m m s nn nn * (206)-936-0471 m m sssss nn nn * bharatr(a)microsoft.com

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Video tapes of NANOG?
by Nathan Stratton 18 Feb '96

18 Feb '96

I missed NANOG this time, and wondered if anyone had or knows where I can get a video tape of it? Nathan Stratton CEO, NetRail, Inc. Your Gateway to the World! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Phone (703)524-4800 NetRail, Inc. Fax (703)534-5033 2007 N. 15 St. Suite 5 Email sales(a)netrail.net Arlington, Va. 22201 WWW http://www.netrail.net/ Access: (703) 524-4802 guest --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself" Matthew 6:34

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Web Page for the notes
by sob＠academ.com 18 Feb '96

18 Feb '96

The notes will start appearing at this URL Real Soon Now: http://www.academ.com/nanog/feb1996 The agenda page is up. -- Stan | Academ Consulting Services |internet: sob(a)academ.com Olan | For more info on academ, see this |uucp: {mcsun|amdahl}!academ!sob Barber | URL- http://www.academ.com/academ |Opinions expressed are only mine.

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Re: Renumbering and the Feb 15-16 NANOG meeting
by Paul Ferguson 18 Feb '96

18 Feb '96

Craig, I think that this would be an opportune time to mention the PIER [Procedures for Internet/Enterprise Renumbering] WG; the issues that you mentioned below fall with PIER's charter to accomplish. I would recommend that anyone interested get involved with PIER; information on the PIER mailing list is available at: http://www.isi.edu:80/div7/pier/papers.html We also have a block scheduled at the LA IETF, tentatively on Wed. March 6. - paul At 06:54 PM 2/17/96 -0800, Craig A. Huegen wrote: > >The problem, you ask? I don't see very many resources available which >help ISP's to renumber more easily--time line planners, reminder lists >with commonly-missed parameters, etc. > >I realize that renumbering is a fact of life--my last post, however, >shows my true feelings regarding most pre-CIDR blocks; that their >providers should be willing to allow customers to keep using the space they >allocated in the pre-CIDR days. > >If there are these renumbering resources available, make sure that the small >and big providers alike are making them available to the customers who are >willing to attempt a re-number. Make sure the customer service of the >provider is willing to deal with the complexities of renumbering (and >keep in mind it _IS_ a very complex project--EVERYTHING from IP addresses >to static routes to applications which are hard-coded). Unfortunately, the ISP >that I saw change providers didn't have this help at their fingertips--they >could have potentially saved almost all of the customers they lost. >

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Re: [NIC-960209.1757] Routing Problem (fwd)
by Sean Donelan 17 Feb '96

17 Feb '96

>Yes, so why not take you address space from you upstreem provider and >yes, when you need to change it. We started with 1 /24 then, /23 then >/19, all from Sprintlink. We then added a MCI connection and the Internic >gave us a /18, then we got connected to a NAP, the NIC gave us one more >/18. Yes, we had to renumber off the /24, /23, and are still working on >the /19. > >The point is that the NIC has no idea how long you will be in business, >or if you need the space at all. I am provding access to right now 10 >ISP, that will be gone in a year, and have watch that many die so far. Obviously you don't know the right people. While some startup ISP's get a /19. Other startup ISP's with no customers get a /14. And why renumber if you can get IANA to align an entire /8 before you even have customers? Perhaps there are some unpublished criteria being used to distinguished between these ISP's market projections. The published criteria don't seem to be sufficient to explain these dispararities. Since these allocations happened before these startup ISP companies had any customers, I don't understand what method for evaluating "effective utilization" would lead to these companies getting such large allocations. Other than relying on rosy engineering diagrams and optimistic market studies. The phase of the moon seems to be as good an explaination as any. The backing of a large cable or bell operating company isn't a good predictor of success. Yet these type of companies seem to be getting larger than average allocations for their ISP businesses before having any customers. Whatever happened to all those set-top boxes for interactive television? -- Sean Donelan, Data Research Associates, Inc, St. Louis, MO Affiliation given for identification not representation

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