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Re:
by r.a. martin 20 Nov '97

20 Nov '97

I have no idea why I received this - I didn't unsub. I also received a "welcome to nanog message", as if I had just subscribed (I've been subscribed for a long time). This all occurred while I was away so am just responding (as per instructions below) now. randim(a)voicenet.com At 07:19 PM 11/17/97 -0600, you wrote: > 32760 nanog(a)merit.edu >nanog(a)merit.edu > >You have been removed from the list. > >If this wasn't your intention or you are having problems getting yourself >unsubscribed, reply to this mail now (quoting it entirely (for diagnostic >purposes), and of course adding any comments you see fit). > >Transcript of unsubscription request follows: >-- >>From nanog(a)merit.edu Mon Nov 17 19:19:53 1997 >>Received: from adnc.com (hera.adnc.com [205.216.138.127]) by mozart.lib.uchicago.edu (8.8.5/8.6.4) with SMTP id TAA21919 for marilyn-request(a)mozart.lib.uchicago.edu; Mon, 17 Nov 1997 19:19:25 -0600 >>Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 19:19:25 -0600 >>From: nanog(a)merit.edu >>Message-Id: <199711180119.TAA21919(a)mozart.lib.uchicago.edu> >> >>unsub nanog(a)merit.edu >> > > --------------------------------- randim(a)voicenet.com http://www.voicenet.com/~randim/ ---------------------------------

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Re: hmm..
by dean＠av8.com 20 Nov '97

20 Nov '97

I get grumpy when the anti-spammers start exaggerating or start screwing up other peoples systems, on purpose or not. Its kind of like a bar fight that one is not really involved in. I'm upset that they are spilling my beer. At 12:33 AM 11/19/97, Barry Shein wrote: >Ah, the "just lie back and enjoy it" point of view...(or at least "if >it comes off in the shower it can't be that bad".) Spam comes off. I think their unix sysadmins probably have knowledge and experience. Experience with T3 and large mail and news systems is valuable, regardless. But damaging other peoples computers doesn't come off quite so easily. I think breaking spammers networks and computers is much worse. People can go to jail if they are caught doing that on purpose. Such activities are truly morally confused. >At any rate, this is all orthogonal to the point. If a spammer was >subscribing nanog to other lists just because he didn't like the >anti-spam discusson on this list that would be wrong, right? Of course its wrong. Its just as bad as the bounce scripts that some people are making. Do you agree these are wrong too? >Yes, keep an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out of >your head. A good idea for all. I think people who risk their careers and livelihood to damage a spammer network have clearly let their brains fall out. >Spammers steal enormous $$$ from ISPs, and doubly so when their >customers complain about it incessantly and expect some sort of >answer, and spammers add nothing. Regarding user complaints-- You would get a lot less if you didn't promise they wouldn't get spam. You bring the complaint problem on yourself. Set a policy statement that users should forward illegal emails to the postal inspector or the FBI. 'Unwanted email should be deleted. Do not contact operations to report unwanted or illegal email.' Have users use filtering software, and then the cost comes down to much less than 20.017 cents times 10 million users or less than 2.01 million dollars in a 3 Billion dollar a year market. The cost is still much less than one half of one percent of the market. (0.006) Note that if you don't keep spam, it doesn't even cost 20 cents per user. Truly not a big deal. Gigabytes is not a big number in a thousands or millions of terabytes world. Enormous indeed. I have yet to hear anyone declare bankruptcy because of spam. IRC adds nothing. Zip. Except lining to the pockets of IRC providers. Spam adds something very small. At least I might get a good deal on toner cartridges, if I wade through a bunch of garbage. Its not much but its still more than IRC. Some people go through their junk mail and clip coupons. I don't think its worth 30 minutes of my time to get a $1.95 in savings at the supermarket. And even if I throw it out, I still have to wait in line behind someone trying to go through their coupons. And despite 60 Billion dollars a year in bulk mail, people don't think thats theft. "But dammit, their stealing my time!!" I spend more time waiting in line at the supermarket than I do refiling spam. I guess coupons should be banned too. And Sunday drivers. >If I want to offer a service such as, eg, IRC, for money, that's my >business. If a spammer is trying to ram his business down me and my >customer's throat by sending, literally, gigabytes of unsolicited >email then that's a real problem, that's theft. You have absolutely no >right to make the comparison you make, it's morally confused. So if *you* make money on it, its ok. But if someone else make money on something that doesn't benefit you, it scum. I don't buy it. IRC affects ones ability to communicate with other systems on the internet. People are paying big bucks for an internet connection that is essentially "degraded" due to IRC. Replace IRC with any of a dozen other protocols that go across the backbone that aren't truly "useful". I pick on IRC because it really annoyed me back when the backbone was small, and I had a cross country internet project. I found the backbone was slow due to a lot of IRC traffic. I've gotten over it. Everyone sending packets paid their own way. And its a lot faster because places like The World cropped up and charged users for the privelege of wasting time on IRC, and then bought larger connections which in turn financed bigger backbone facilities. I think that you're just upset that the goose laying the golden egg occasionally takes a dump. Here are better comparisons: What if my users waste *my* bandwidth connecting to *your* IRC server from *my* dialin lines? You encourage your IRC users to get flat rate dialin service from me. That causes my "low actual use" cost model to fail, and my costs go up. Are you stealing my dialin resources? I think a reasonable person would say I can't complain about the economics of flatrate services. How about someone sending a lot of "talk" requests to your users? Suppose your users complain, the talk requests take up some small bandwidth. Is anything being stolen? I don't think so. I think if your users truly can't accept spam, and your users truly don't take up any internet resources, then you should disconnect from the internet. But since you take up internet resources that spammers don't use, you can't complain that spammers likewise take up some resources. They paid for their connections. They are entitled to service. There is no requirement on the usefulness to others. Indeed, such a requirement by a public utility (AGIS?, UUnet? MCI? BBN?) might be a violation of civil law. "Sorry, you can't have phone service because we don't think you telemarketers have a useful purpose and you annoy some people". --Dean ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Plain Aviation, Inc dean(a)av8.com LAN/WAN/UNIX/NT/TCPIP http://www.av8.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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Announcement - a Seattle exchange is now online
by Chris Caputo 20 Nov '97

20 Nov '97

A new exchange is now online in Seattle. For more info please see: http://www.altopia.com/six/ Chris

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Re: Real..Live...SPAM
by alex＠tiac.net 19 Nov '97

19 Nov '97

Re: Real..Live...SPAM Why thank you, you <expletive deleted>. I don't get enough of it in my poor misbegotten life. >>Damon Chadwick wrote: >> It would help if there was something IN the body of this message? > >Rob Wilson wrote: >Here's the stuff that shoulda been enclosed... its not pretty. >Subject: "The Headline That Gave Me A 67% Response Rate!!" >Date: Tue, 18 Nov 97 17:25:09 EST >From: shodan(a)savoynet.com >To: Friend(a)public.com WHY?? This doesn't even have an expanded header on it! WHY are you sending re-used SPAM to NANOG? We've all seen evil address pimping spam programs being hawked by spam ****heads. We all know savoynet.com harbors spammers. Why, therefore, are you wasting my time and space? I am not generally a 'poster' on NANOG, just a quiet reader, hungry for information. This is getting retarded. *bows gratefully (and hopefully) to Chris Hoff and splits, finally* NANOG -> /dev/null

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WTF?
by William Duncanson 19 Nov '97

19 Nov '97

OK, what's with the subscribe requests, and the Marilyn Monroe crap? Seems to have initiated at: G:\users\Caesar\tmp>nslookup 166.72.5.121 Server: localhost.starkreality.com Address: 127.0.0.1 Name: slip166-72-5-121.il.us.ibm.net Address: 166.72.5.121 Anybody with ibm.net online? -- _________________ _ _ _________________________ William S. Duncanson |_| Collective |_| http://www.colltech.com Page:800-495-1005 |_ Technologies _| wduncanson(a)colltech.com caesar(a)starkreality.com [] [] "The Power Of Many Minds"

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Re: Real..Live...SPAM
by Rob Wilson 19 Nov '97

19 Nov '97

Damon Chadwick wrote: > > It would help if there was something IN the body of this message? > > What's up there youngster? > > How are things? > > I miss your witty cynicism... if you could call it that > ;-))))))))))))))))) > > Keep in touch. > > Damon > Yea... Kinda saw that when I arrived this morning. Thats why you're the smart guy, and I'm not. ;) Here's the stuff that shoulda been enclosed... its not pretty. Obviously, a IP tech-turncoat! Subject: "The Headline That Gave Me A 67% Response Rate!!" Date: Tue, 18 Nov 97 17:25:09 EST From: shodan(a)savoynet.com To: Friend(a)public.com Greetings, *********************************************************************** You were referred to us as someone interested in Internet Marketing. If this message has reached you by mistake, please accept our apologies. Please follow the remove instructions above! *********************************************************************** $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $ MAKE $250 to $1000 A WEEK!! $ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ I Make $250 to $1000 A Week With One Of The Hottest Most Exciting Marketing Groups on The Internet And I See No End In Sight!! Plus, I Want To Show You How YOU Can Get Started TODAY!! (To learn more about "The Headline That Gave Me A 67% Response Rate!!" see the end of this note) Dear Friend, My name is L. Ruby and I'm here to tell you that if you really want to make money on the Internet THIS will be the most important letter you EVER read! I MADE $160 MY FIRST DAY!!! Never in my life have I joined a program and made money THE VERY SAME DAY - UNTIL I joined the Internet Marketing Warriors! (tm) The Warrior Forum & Secret Site is the most incredible goldmine I have ever seen! What is the Warrior Secret Site & Forum? 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I put out CSU card that was on fire (fwd)
by Avi Freedman 19 Nov '97

19 Nov '97

Just a warning about GDC 552/A rackmount CSUs... FYI, Avi > Hey NOC people, > > I got home to a smoke in the basement, and tracked it down to a CSU > card that was on fire. Blew out the (functioning!) CSU card, and slid > it out of the rack. This is the second one where components have burned up. > > Anyway, some link is probably down, so I thought I should let people know. > > Please do NOT re-install either CSU card sitting on the chair in Wyndmoor! > > Thanks, > > -Mark

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Re: db-admin
by Gerald Andrew Winters 19 Nov '97

19 Nov '97

Hi Brad, Our sysadmin staff shut down db-admin mail at our request because of a mail loop. Service will be restored shortly. --Gerald (merit)

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db-admin
by Bradley Reynolds 19 Nov '97

19 Nov '97

Is there any reason that RADB's human side (db-admin(a)ra.net) is puking when mail is being sent to it? brad reynolds ber(a)cwru.edu "Faith: not wanting to know what is true." -- Friedrich Nietzsche

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dear bog
by Aaron Beck 19 Nov '97

19 Nov '97

is it time to make the list moderated? :) .--------------------------------------------------------- | Aaron Beck, Internetworking Engineer. E: aaronb(a)mpl.net | Meridian Partners Limited. We Simply Do More. http://www.mpl.net `------------------------------------------------------------------

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