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It's 1998; do you know where your packets are?
by Barry L James 01 Oct '98

01 Oct '98

This isn't entirely operational in nature, but if true does somewhat have an impact on what we are operating. You can find the entire text at www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/15295.html but here are a few snippets to give you an idea of what it's about. "In October, Europe's governing body will commission a full report into the workings of Echelon, a global network of highly sensitive listening posts operated in part by America's most clandestine intelligence organization, the National Security Agency. " "Echelon is reportedly able to intercept, record, and translate any electronic communication -- telephone, data, cellular, fax, email, telex -- sent anywhere in the world. " "Echelon intercepts Internet traffic at the transport layer, such as the TCP/IP layer, so the system doesn't care too much what it is or where it came from," said Pike. "For analog traffic, such as telephone conversations, it uses automatic voice-recognition technology to scan the conversations." Seems far fetched (but not *that* far), but worth a read. Barry --- Barry L James \ \ I have known them all already, known them all. Mendicant \ \ I have known the mornings, evenings, afternoons. www.terraware.net \ \ I have measured my life with coffee spoons. blj(a)terraware.net ____/ \________________________ T.S. Eliot

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Re: Is the .to (Tonga) domain completely rogue and should be removed?
by jprovo＠ma.ultranet.com 01 Oct '98

01 Oct '98

> The specific question was whether or not the .to domain serves any > useful purpose (such as a TLD for the Kingdom of Tonga) -- is there > any reason to maintain it in the root servers? It is Yet Another ISO CC TLD that is being whored out - since domains became commodities, ISO CCs are now "national resources". Who has a crystal ball shiny enough to see which (small) country decides to change its name to get a "better" ISO CC? And how far out that will be? Another lovely spin-off of pushing the mess up towards the root of the tree, instead of down to the leaves with further specifity. "My own opinion, etc etc disclaim disclaim" -- Joe Provo, Network Architect 508.229.8400 x3006 Commercial Internet Services Group Fax 508.229.2375 UltraNet Communications, Inc., an RCN Company <jprovo(a)ultra.net>

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Re: It's 1998; do you know where your packets are?
by David O'Leary 01 Oct '98

01 Oct '98

At 07:39 PM 9/30/98 -0400, Barry L James wrote: [stuff cut] >You can find the entire text at >www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/15295.html ^^^^^^^^^^^ Wired. The Weekly World News of the Information Elite (tm) :-/ [rest of stuff cut] dave

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RE: Is the .to (Tonga) domain completely rogue and should beremoved?
by Sanborn, Ed 01 Oct '98

01 Oct '98

Barry, Why don't you offer to move this dialogue offline. I just joined the NANOG mailing list yesterday and already I'm disgusted. I understand your honorable intentions at the beginning of this discussion but obviously there is NOT concensus to ban the "to" domain so maybe this discussion should be dropped so that the discussion lists do not remain clogged. -Ed -----Original Message----- From: Barry Shein [mailto:bzs@world.std.com] Sent: Thursday, October 01, 1998 4:29 AM To: scott w Cc: nanog(a)merit.edu; list(a)inet-access.net; inet-access(a)earth.com; domain-policy(a)lists.internic.net; com-priv(a)psi.com; publicaffairs(a)panet.us-state.gov Subject: RE: Is the .to (Tonga) domain completely rogue and should beremoved? On September 30, 1998 at 21:08 scott(a)digisle.net (scott w.) wrote: > > > On a bright Hawaiian night, someone wrote: > > > Does anyone have the email address of the Chief/King of Tonga? He might > > find this dialogue eye-opening... > > HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Someone is *really* not familiar with Polynesian > culture! ;) 'Awa (kawa) anyone? Actually, he just told me that he'd stop the spammers if I marry his daughter. I've taken it under consideration. -- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | bzs(a)world.std.com | http://www.world.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202 | Login: 617-739-WRLD The World | Public Access Internet | Since 1989 *oo*

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Re: Is the .to (Tonga) domain completely rogue and should beremoved?
by Anthony Sticha 01 Oct '98

01 Oct '98

The King of Tonga is currently staying at a friends house in Sydney. I will ask him directly about the situation this thread has developed into. I am sure he would be interested to get to the bottom of nearly 200+ messages so far.....besides which I am getting sick of all this dribble.... Why don't you guys clean up your own backyard first before you start worrying about little ol Tonga... -----Original Message----- From: Barry Shein <bzs(a)world.std.com> To: scott w <scott(a)digisle.net> Cc: nanog(a)merit.edu <nanog(a)merit.edu>; list(a)inet-access.net <list(a)inet-access.net>; inet-access(a)earth.com <inet-access(a)earth.com>; domain-policy(a)lists.internic.net <domain-policy(a)lists.internic.net>; com-priv(a)psi.com <com-priv(a)psi.com>; publicaffairs(a)panet.us-state.gov <publicaffairs(a)panet.us-state.gov> Date: Thursday, 1 October 1998 18:42 Subject: RE: Is the .to (Tonga) domain completely rogue and should beremoved? > >On September 30, 1998 at 21:08 scott(a)digisle.net (scott w.) wrote: > > > > > > On a bright Hawaiian night, someone wrote: > > > > > Does anyone have the email address of the Chief/King of Tonga? He might > > > find this dialogue eye-opening... > > > > HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Someone is *really* not familiar with Polynesian > > culture! ;) 'Awa (kawa) anyone? > >Actually, he just told me that he'd stop the spammers if I marry his >daughter. > >I've taken it under consideration. > > >-- > -Barry Shein > >Software Tool & Die | bzs(a)world.std.com | http://www.world.com >Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202 | Login: 617-739-WRLD >The World | Public Access Internet | Since 1989 *oo* > >

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Re: Crazy flying netbios packets
by crh＠ubiqx.mn.org 01 Oct '98

01 Oct '98

I'm not on this list, but a friend pointed me at the thread and I wanted to add my 2cents. Hope you don't mind. : There is a very popular WWW log analysis program by the name of : WebTrends. It is run on a Win32 platform and when processing : GIGs of www access-logs, it will uni-cast for WINS resolution to : every foreign IP if finds for WINS name resolution, fail, : and then use DNS for resolution. : : My fear (uneducated on the matter) is that it is not WebTrends but : Microsoft's gethostbyaddr() call which would mean that this type of : crazy 137/udp WINS resolution traffic is more commonly mis-used than : we think. It's not actually WINS that you're dealing with here. WINS is Microsoft's name for their NetBIOS Name Server (RFC1001, 1002). WebTrends cannot know the address of the WINS server, if any, that the assumed Windows PC used so it would have to send the query directly to the IP in the log. Urq. If the PC was on a dial-up or other dynamic IP address, then any reply will most certainly be wrong. Also, what you'd get back is a set of NetBIOS names. This is almost completely useless unless you share the same WINS server or are within the same broadcast domain. The suggestion that this totally nasty behavior is SOP for Microsoft's gethostbyaddr() is disturbing. In my experience, the folks in Redmond don't clearly understand the difference between a NetBIOS name and a DNS name. Chris Hertel Samba Team -- "I'm thirty-seven. I'm not old." -----(- Christopher R. Hertel -- Dennis the Peasant to King Arthur, 787 AD -)----- crh(a)ubiqx.mn.org

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Re: Is the .to (Tonga) domain completely rogue and should be removed?
by Adam D. McKenna 01 Oct '98

01 Oct '98

Apparently you've never seen www.nunames.nu? It made quite a lot of news when it came out. This has been going on for quite a while, it's odd that you should bring it up now. You might also want to check out http://www.nic.cc. I'm sure a host of others will be springing up in no time. BTW I happen to think those .to forwarder domains are ultra cool, I found http://easy.to/remember the other day and I thought it was an exteremely good idea... --Adam adam(a)flounder.net adam(a)mckenna.to?? (I was thinking about it.. .nu is cheaper though :) -----Original Message----- From: Barry Shein <bzs(a)world.std.com> To: Andy Walden <andy(a)enigma.mtco.com> Cc: nanog(a)merit.edu <nanog(a)merit.edu> Date: Thursday, October 01, 1998 3:25 AM Subject: Re: Is the .to (Tonga) domain completely rogue and should be removed? On September 30, 1998 at 15:14 andy(a)enigma.mtco.com (Andy Walden) wrote: > > > I have a legit .to domain. I paid $100 for it like any .com domain, > which of course has no porn sites. > > or something... By "legit" do you mean its purpose is to operate a business or other entity organized within the Kingdom of Tonga? -- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | bzs(a)world.std.com | http://www.world.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202 | Login: 617-739-WRLD The World | Public Access Internet | Since 1989 *oo*

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Multi-Homed Swamp Space (was: Your class 'B' address space)
by William Allen Simpson 01 Oct '98

01 Oct '98

Catching up on NANOG, I could not resist responding here: > Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:08:34 -0700 (PDT) > From: Michael Dillon <michael(a)memra.com> > If the registries would start allocating address space that has been > recovered from the swamp to this sort of company, then the problem would > be solved. If a company needs multihoming capability but will never use > more than a /23 then what is wrong with reusing swamp space? > I just tried 2 weeks ago to reuse one of my own old swamp blocks (192.138.173.0) that had been out of production for a number of years. Upstreams are MCI and eSpire. Got it in the RR via MCI. Seems to have propagated into many other nets by the following day. But for some odd reason, SprintLink had problems and AOL never worked. After calling them, SprintLink began to route it, but it went away again the next morning. Access to AOL servers from dial-in equipment in that /24 block never completed a TCP handshake, despite that a traceroute seems to work (although it's hard to tell, as the AOL servers didn't respond on the last hop). After a few days, had to move into another MCI /24 block. Customers seem to want to talk to AOL, and vice versa.... :-( Anyway, looks like using swamp space for multi-homed nets and servers doesn't work. Too much hand configuration. WSimpson(a)UMich.edu Key fingerprint = 17 40 5E 67 15 6F 31 26 DD 0D B9 9B 6A 15 2C 32

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Re: Is the .to (Tonga) domain completely rogue and should be removed?
by Dean Anderson 01 Oct '98

01 Oct '98

At 03:08 PM 9/30/98 -0500, Sam Hayes Merritt, III wrote: >On Wed, 30 Sep 1998, Barry Shein wrote: > >> We've been having increasing problems with one or more porn sites in >> the .to domain promoting itself by massive spamming of AOL customers >> using one of our domains in their From: header thus causing both >> complaints to us and thousands of bounces from AOL due to bad AOL >> addresses in their spam lists. About a year ago, I asked Vixie if he would RBL porn sites. I might have supported the RBL if there were a moral high ground. He said no. --Dean P.S. Barry, I do feel sorry for you. Perhaps you should just refuse spam complaints, and try to get them to stop using your domains. Instead of stealing a domain, all the spammers need to do is change their addresses to uucp style addresses, and their mail will likely be accepted, and bounces shouldn't leave the system. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Plain Aviation, Inc dean(a)av8.com LAN/WAN/UNIX/NT/TCPIP http://www.av8.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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Re: Is the .to (Tonga) domain completely rogue and should be removed?
by Steven J. Sobol 01 Oct '98

01 Oct '98

[ In reply to a private message from Jeremy Porter. ] > Maybe you should post a clarification that you do not feel RBL is > the same a terriorism. That is certainly the appearance you gave. > In all the messages in the thread posted to nanog my was the only > replace that suggested solutions, and it was on topic. Done. Yes, when I mentioned the T-word, I was not refering to the RBL. The RBL is voluntary and allows people to deny others access to THEIR OWN machines. It has nothing to do with people trying to deny others access to machines the perpetrators do NOT own - that is what I take issue with. > Your accusations of terrorism, stupidity and your pity are not > needed on Nanog, perhaps on other mailing lists such comments are > reasonable. I see absolutely no call for you to be advocating denial of service attacks anywhere - and ESPECIALLY not on NANOG, where everyone *knows better anyhow*. The knife cuts both ways. I hope no one using an nstc.com account, or an account at my upstream, ever even comes close to getting you upset because it sounds like in a situation like that, you would advocate a DoS attack against the network involved. I'm sorry, but I am not retracting my statement that that IS terrorism, and there is absolutely no call for it, and if you commit a DoS attack you deserve whatever sanctions you get hit with, either by your upstream or the law. Period. -- Anyone who spams me will be subject to torture by Jake, my killer attack hedgehog, and/or Lizzy and Junior, my man-eating iguanas.

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