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Re: Operations: where are you going to sit?
by Timothy J Salo 07 Dec '00

07 Dec '00

> Subject: Re: Operations: where are you going to sit? > From: Michael Shields <shields(a)msrl.com> > Date: 07 Dec 2000 00:22:47 +0000 > [...] > I think this is based on the same decision process that lead to the > ban on cellphones in most commercial airplanes -- some unsustantiated > anecdotes, no testing, and extremely risk-averse executives. > [...] For what it is worth, I believe that the use of cellphones in airplanes is prohibited by the FCC, not by the FAA. That is, the use of cellphones in airplanes (in flight) adversely affects the cellphone system. A cellphone at a high altitude is visible in numerous cells, with conflicts with the assumption that a cellphone will be heard (more or less) only in one cell. Now, about the use of other radio receivers and transmitters in airplanes... More trivia from, -tjs

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Re: Operations: where are you going to sit?
by Michael Shields 07 Dec '00

07 Dec '00

In article <Pine.BSF.4.21.0012061429270.39868-100000(a)courier.netrail.net>, "Daniel L. Golding" <dan(a)netrail.net> wrote: > I have worked in data centers where cell phones, FM radios, Nextel phones, > etc. were banned. All the Bell Atlantic COs I've seen recently have signs banning cellphone use. I think this is based on the same decision process that lead to the ban on cellphones in most commercial airplanes -- some unsustantiated anecdotes, no testing, and extremely risk-averse executives. I'm not aware of any vendor of telecom hardware issuing an advisory that there are known cases of cellphones causing problems with the equipment. -- Shields.

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HTTPS accelerators
by Matthew Schlegel 07 Dec '00

07 Dec '00

I am investigating HTTPS accelerators for our company and would like to know if anyone has experience with various https load balancers/accelerators. The ones I know a little about are the Intel 7180 and Alteon. Are there others that I should be looking at? Does anyone recommend one above the others? Please reply off list and I'll summarize the results in a couple days. Thank you. Matthew Schlegel Network Engineer Crossgain Corporation

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RE: Operations: where are you going to sit?
by Roeland Meyer 06 Dec '00

06 Dec '00

Go to RadioShack, buy wireless FM, use it in the data center. No license. -----Original Message----- From: Mathew Butler [mailto:mbutler@tonbu.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 10:57 AM To: 'Jade Deane'; 'Daniel Senie' Cc: 'Matt Thoene'; nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: RE: Operations: where are you going to sit? Small problem: You can't use CB for any kind of business purpose. :( There's a separate business band that -can- be used for business -- you have to get a license from the FCC to use it, but that's per-company and not per-user. -Mat Butler -----Original Message----- From: Jade Deane [mailto:jade.deane@HelloNetwork.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 10:39 AM To: 'Daniel Senie' Cc: 'Matt Thoene'; nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: RE: Operations: where are you going to sit? I didn't want to come off sounding like a Nextel proponent, but it's a solution that's worked well here. And yes, their convoluted two way system is by no means traditional, and I'm open to suggestions ;) Perhaps a CB with a nice oak finish would be in order. Breaker Breaker 1-9, we have flapping. Jade -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Senie [mailto:dts@senie.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 10:27 AM To: Jade Deane Cc: 'Matt Thoene'; nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: Re: Operations: where are you going to sit? Jade Deane wrote: > > Loss of signal in a data center is a good point. At a previous organization > I was slaved to, we brought this up with Nextel sales people. After about a > week or so they purposed a small in-line receiver for the various data > centers, and a thin Kate Moss looking yagi for each roof. Actually, this should be a passive device. Various types of slotted waveguide/coax are made, for example in the Heliax product line. An antenna on the roof (directional antenna only if you're on the edge of a coverage area) and a slotted line through your facility will provide good results. Think about it for all commonly used frequencies (cellular and pager) that might be in use in your facility. This isn't something you have to get via your wireless vendor, and it doesn't need electronics. Hospitals have used such setups for years to permit doctor's pagers to function throughout buildings (even in basements). > > Also, I can't stress the importance of a basic two way mobile system. We > use the Nextel i1000+ phones for our engineering staff and NOC. The > internet access features on these bad boys has been VERY handy. The ability > for a NOC member to check MRTG/Openview type information and IMAP/etc. email > has been beneficial. Something for you to think about: Your Nextel phones are NOT two-way radios in the traditional sense. They communicate handset to handset via the Nextel network (even if you're right next to each other). If you're in the midst of a storm or other natural disaster and your local cell site dies, you've got no use of those radios. Also, in the event of emergency, cell sites become overloaded with folks sitting in traffic calling people. You may find these radios least effective when you need them most. The Motorola radios other folks suggested are FM transceivers on business (or FRS) bands. These communicate directly from radio to radio (commercial gear also can use private repeaters). These are better choices, as they have no outside dependencies. > > Jade > > Jade E. Deane > Network Engineer > helloNetwork.com > Las Vegas, Nevada > > Office: +1 (702) 938-9267 > Cell: +1 (702) 604-4759 > Fax: +1 (702) 456-1471 > email: jade.deane(a)helloNetwork.com > epage: 7026044759(a)page.nextel.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Matt Thoene [mailto:matt@thoene.net] > Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 9:40 AM > To: nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: RE: Operations: where are you going to sit? > > :: > ::I would add wireless phones in general. If NOC staff need to walk over to > ::another person's screen or to swap cables or interfaces in a > ::datacenter, you > ::probably don't want them tied to a desk phone. You may want to consider > ::some basic 2 way radios (RF) in addition to wireless/cell phones for > ::datacenter <--> NOC <--> restroom communication independent of > ::any ma bell. > > ...especially since cell phones tend to get no signal in Data Centers... > > -Matt -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel Senie dts(a)senie.com Amaranth Networks Inc. http://www.amaranth.com

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RE: Operations: where are you going to sit?
by John Fraizer 06 Dec '00

06 Dec '00

On Wed, 6 Dec 2000, Robert Gibson wrote: > John, > You are not suggesting that GMRS is licenseless are you? > > On Wed, 6 Dec 2000, John Fraizer wrote: > > As for business band, why bother? GMRS and Itinerant are licenseless. > > Bob Gibson > Brainfart --- John Fraizer EnterZone, Inc

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Route-maps
by Smith, Ed 06 Dec '00

06 Dec '00

> Would anyone on the list be able to provide me with some "real life" > route-maps as I'm trying to create a test environment to exercise "real > world" scenarios. Also, to what extent they are used throughout a global > network. > Thanks! Ed Smith

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RE: Operations: where are you going to sit?
by Jade Deane 06 Dec '00

06 Dec '00

I didn't want to come off sounding like a Nextel proponent, but it's a solution that's worked well here. And yes, their convoluted two way system is by no means traditional, and I'm open to suggestions ;) Perhaps a CB with a nice oak finish would be in order. Breaker Breaker 1-9, we have flapping. Jade -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Senie [mailto:dts@senie.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 10:27 AM To: Jade Deane Cc: 'Matt Thoene'; nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: Re: Operations: where are you going to sit? Jade Deane wrote: > > Loss of signal in a data center is a good point. At a previous organization > I was slaved to, we brought this up with Nextel sales people. After about a > week or so they purposed a small in-line receiver for the various data > centers, and a thin Kate Moss looking yagi for each roof. Actually, this should be a passive device. Various types of slotted waveguide/coax are made, for example in the Heliax product line. An antenna on the roof (directional antenna only if you're on the edge of a coverage area) and a slotted line through your facility will provide good results. Think about it for all commonly used frequencies (cellular and pager) that might be in use in your facility. This isn't something you have to get via your wireless vendor, and it doesn't need electronics. Hospitals have used such setups for years to permit doctor's pagers to function throughout buildings (even in basements). > > Also, I can't stress the importance of a basic two way mobile system. We > use the Nextel i1000+ phones for our engineering staff and NOC. The > internet access features on these bad boys has been VERY handy. The ability > for a NOC member to check MRTG/Openview type information and IMAP/etc. email > has been beneficial. Something for you to think about: Your Nextel phones are NOT two-way radios in the traditional sense. They communicate handset to handset via the Nextel network (even if you're right next to each other). If you're in the midst of a storm or other natural disaster and your local cell site dies, you've got no use of those radios. Also, in the event of emergency, cell sites become overloaded with folks sitting in traffic calling people. You may find these radios least effective when you need them most. The Motorola radios other folks suggested are FM transceivers on business (or FRS) bands. These communicate directly from radio to radio (commercial gear also can use private repeaters). These are better choices, as they have no outside dependencies. > > Jade > > Jade E. Deane > Network Engineer > helloNetwork.com > Las Vegas, Nevada > > Office: +1 (702) 938-9267 > Cell: +1 (702) 604-4759 > Fax: +1 (702) 456-1471 > email: jade.deane(a)helloNetwork.com > epage: 7026044759(a)page.nextel.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Matt Thoene [mailto:matt@thoene.net] > Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 9:40 AM > To: nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: RE: Operations: where are you going to sit? > > :: > ::I would add wireless phones in general. If NOC staff need to walk over to > ::another person's screen or to swap cables or interfaces in a > ::datacenter, you > ::probably don't want them tied to a desk phone. You may want to consider > ::some basic 2 way radios (RF) in addition to wireless/cell phones for > ::datacenter <--> NOC <--> restroom communication independent of > ::any ma bell. > > ...especially since cell phones tend to get no signal in Data Centers... > > -Matt -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel Senie dts(a)senie.com Amaranth Networks Inc. http://www.amaranth.com

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RE: Operations: where are you going to sit?
by Roeland Meyer 06 Dec '00

06 Dec '00

> 3) Reliability - Never seen a CB that could take the abuse my Motorola > gear has taken. I've seen very little communication gear that can take the abuse Motorola gear, in general, can take. Only Uniden/Cobra comes close.

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RE: Operations: where are you going to sit?
by Roeland Meyer 06 Dec '00

06 Dec '00

Think cheap. SprintPCS gave us a hellofadeal that none of the others could touch and it works for the road-dogs (self-included). > -----Original Message----- > From: Adam Rothschild [mailto:asr@latency.net] > Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 11:38 AM > To: Roeland Meyer > Cc: nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: Re: Operations: where are you going to sit? > > > On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 11:06:20AM -0800, Roeland Meyer wrote: > > > Can you provide links for providers of this? We have exactly this > > problem. We're in a fringe zone of SprintPCS (East Livermore, CA) > > and none of our c-phones work inside the building. SprintPCS was > > supposed to do a buildout this way, this year, but it isn't > > happening. > > Not to rehash the whole "my cell phone provider is better than yours" > discussion, but I'd strongly advise against using SprintPCS for > communications as critical as this. I've found their coverage to be > extremely poor outside of major metropolitan areas (unless you enjoy > using analog, and paying for the privilege, due to their lack of > coverage :-). And, their international calling is shifty, at best. > > Of course, your experience may vary. > > Just my $0.02... > -adam >

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RE: Operations: where are you going to sit?
by Roeland Meyer 06 Dec '00

06 Dec '00

Can you provide links for providers of this? We have exactly this problem. We're in a fringe zone of SprintPCS (East Livermore, CA) and none of our c-phones work inside the building. SprintPCS was supposed to do a buildout this way, this year, but it isn't happening. > From: Daniel Senie [mailto:dts@senie.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 10:27 AM > > Jade Deane wrote: > > > > Loss of signal in a data center is a good point. At a > previous organization > > I was slaved to, we brought this up with Nextel sales > people. After about a > > week or so they purposed a small in-line receiver for the > various data > > centers, and a thin Kate Moss looking yagi for each roof. > > Actually, this should be a passive device. Various types of slotted > waveguide/coax are made, for example in the Heliax product line. An > antenna on the roof (directional antenna only if you're on > the edge of a > coverage area) and a slotted line through your facility will provide > good results. Think about it for all commonly used > frequencies (cellular > and pager) that might be in use in your facility. This isn't something > you have to get via your wireless vendor, and it doesn't need > electronics. > > Hospitals have used such setups for years to permit doctor's pagers to > function throughout buildings (even in basements).

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