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RE: AOL mail netblocks
by Martin Hannigan 02 Jul '02

02 Jul '02

On Tue, 2 Jul 2002 jlewis(a)lewis.org wrote: > On Tue, 2 Jul 2002, Martin Hannigan wrote: > > > I was hoping someone was going to say that "AOL already does this > > themselves". In the 'old' days, there was a list of what to allow > > under .ipt.aol.com. It's pretty easy for them to do it, and I'm > > guessing that they do actually filter this outbound, or their > > managed modem providers may, I'm just looking for a confirmation. > > I don't think they do filter outbound SMTP. I've gotten complaints from > AOL dial-up users that AOL does not filter outbound SMTP, and that they > don't provide outgoig SMTP servers (hard to believe), so we should not > block AOL dial-up addresses, because these people have to run their own > SMTP servers. My thought/feeling on this is "BS and apathy". The vast > vast majority of AOL dial-ups have no business doing direct-to-MX email. > The handful that think they do can find workarounds or a more appropriate > provider. Ok then, is there a place where I can bath myself in AOL dialup identified netblocks? I'm not trying to start a spam discussion here on the Operations list <g> just get some operational information. -M

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OT: Total Traffic. Was: Sprint peering policy
by Rowland, Alan D 02 Jul '02

02 Jul '02

Richard, I know a few news server admins who might disagree with you. Or at least it seems that way at times. ;) I typically have a 251Kbps (broadband) stream from www.thebasement.com.au running in the background when on line. The stream is coming out of Australia (don't think it's been Akakamized yet. Did I spell that right?) so that stream is on a US backbone. That's in addition to anything else I may be doing. This is only a single point of data but single points eventually add up to a bucket. Additional thoughts. Wonder what that peak traffic would be if individual sites and services weren't as rate limited as most are by pipe size, hardware or software? Or how about a 6Gbps HDTV video conference stream (UCLA (?)- MIT on Internet2). Just my 2¢. The delete key is your friend. -Al Rowland -----Original Message----- From: Richard A Steenbergen [mailto:ras@e-gerbil.net] Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 6:07 PM To: Stephen J. Wilcox Cc: Deepak Jain; Miquel van Smoorenburg; nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: Re: Sprint peering policy On Tue, Jul 02, 2002 at 12:47:36AM +0100, Stephen J. Wilcox wrote: > > I'm curious about all these comments on bandwidth, "few Mbs is > nothing", "dropping OC48 to IXs". > > Theres an imbalance somewhere, everyone on this list claims to be > switching many gigs of data per second and yet where is it all going? > Not on the IX graphs anyway.... > > Did someone mention large bandwidths and everyone else felt they > needed to use similar figures or is everyone really switching that > amount but just hiding it well in private peerings? I know theres some > big networks on this list but theres a lot more small ones.. It's all so much posturing, just like the people who claim they need OC768 now or any time in the near future, or the people who sell 1Mbps customers on the fact that their OC192 links are important. If there is more than ~150Gbps of traffic total (counting the traffic only once through the system) going through the US backbones I'd be very surprised. -- Richard A Steenbergen <ras(a)e-gerbil.net> http://www.e-gerbil.net/ras PGP Key ID: 0x138EA177 (67 29 D7 BC E8 18 3E DA B2 46 B3 D8 14 36 FE B6)

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performance testing/monitoring
by brett watson 02 Jul '02

02 Jul '02

hate to break up the peering thread but i'm wondering if anyone has experience/knowledge of Empirix tools? i worked with them back when they were known as midnight networks but they focused on protocol conformance testing at the time (mid-90s). they're "corporate history" has no mention of midnight though. they do seem to have some network simulation tools which i'm also interested in. heck, i think someone might have even asked about that in the last few days so maybe this is a relevant/appropriate topic. will take replies off-list if not. -b

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Re: Sprint peering policy
by Paul Vixie 02 Jul '02

02 Jul '02

> What is the connection between unregulated peering and the financial > difficulties we have seen? > > The problems have been caused by: > > - Bad business models > - Greed > - Corporate officers who have shirked their fudiciary responsibilities to > the stockholders > > If you can somehow tie peering into this, please be my guest, but it would > be a bit of a stretch. you've asked and answered your own question, though. remember, wcom tried to buy sprint and it was only the EU's antitrust folks who stopped them. when peering was an engineering issue rather than a sales/equity/PR issue, there was a lot of it, and there were fewer single points of failure at ISO-L8 than we see today. i completely understand that acquisition is a common and valid means to grow a business. however, with closed peering as a way of life for our industry, a lot of deals are done which only make money for the investment bankers and don't actually "grow business". closed peering is all about greed and not about service levels, competitive pricing, or overall sector health. closed peering is a bad business model. it shirks fiduciary duty to long-term equity holders in order to give periodic "quick hits" to short-term holders. closed peering proceeds from a Highlander-like premise "there can be only one" when in fact there could be many, and if there were many then the industry overall would be healthier.

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Re: Opnet, Wandl, etc.
by Michael.Dillon＠radianz.com 02 Jul '02

02 Jul '02

>We are looking into using a full or partial mesh MPLS overlay for traffic >characterization on our network and need a tool to model utilization and >simulate failures. At first we won't be doing any real TE. The MPLS network simulator perhaps? http://flower.ce.cnu.ac.kr/~fog1/mns/ There's something called Deriveit that you can get on a 30 day trial which might be sufficient for some people. --Michael Dillon

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Opnet, Wandl, etc.
by Tom Holbrook 02 Jul '02

02 Jul '02

We are looking into using a full or partial mesh MPLS overlay for traffic characterization on our network and need a tool to model utilization and simulate failures. At first we won't be doing any real TE. Does anyone know of any open source tools (maybe similar to Wandl) that have this functionality? I could do what I need with spreadsheets really but it would be more time intensive. Thanks -Tom __________________ Tom Holbrook Sr. Network Engineer Atlanta Earthlink

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Re: Sprint peering policy
by George William Herbert 02 Jul '02

02 Jul '02

>> i completely understand that acquisition is a common and valid means to grow >> a business. however, with closed peering as a way of life for our industry, >> a lot of deals are done which only make money for the investment bankers and >> don't actually "grow business". closed peering is all about greed and not >> about service levels, competitive pricing, or overall sector health. > >The reason we have this industry alive is investment bankers. Had we not had >it, there would not have been abundance of fiber, abundance of competition >and easy accessibility of IP. Like it or not, without these games we would >have still though of a T1 as of a huge pipe. This is getting off topic, but... I think this is putting the cart before the horse. We were getting upgraded bandwidth capabilities, fiber put in the ground, etc from traditional Telcos prior to the rise of the Internet; they were finding cheaper ways to run phone service around. The rise of the Internet as a telecom bandwidth demand driver attracted the attention of investment bankers and capital, which then became somewhat of a set of complex feedback loops (capital going into all sorts of internet industries, infrastructure, etc, partly because it appeared to be good business and partly because of hype). The result was that speculation and hype drove overcapacity. Before anyone had invested serious money in any of the internet infrastructure companies, people were building out 10 megabit, T3 backbones and were talking to telco gear providers about what it would take to do 155 megabit and 622 megabit backbones and so on and so on. It was clear to those of us in the late 80s and early 90s that if demand kept pulling, we needed to keep creating bandwidth. It was not clear at all that demand would keep pulling until 2000 at the same rate it had been... people kept proposing the growth curve and then everyone would discount it as ludicrous. But in no way can you claim that it took a terabuck in capital push to make it happen. Demand pull was fully operational and working just fine before ISPs started being snapped up by phone companies and visa versa, and the huge money came into play. Hype might have been lower and growth somewhat slower, but I can easily see the set of people who were building out backbones with T-1s and the early fiber links having grown them up to networks capable of today's traffic. And they'd probably make a lot more topological and engineering sense and run more smoothly, to bring it back to an operational point here at the close ;-) -george william herbert gherbert(a)retro.com

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RE: Ebone going off the air (at last)...
by Daniska Tomas 02 Jul '02

02 Jul '02

the shutdown is in process see the webcam or #ebone... -- Tomas Daniska systems engineer Tronet Computer Networks Plynarenska 5, 829 75 Bratislava, Slovakia tel: +421 2 58224111, fax: +421 2 58224199 A transistor protected by a fast-acting fuse will protect the fuse by blowing first. > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael.Dillon(a)radianz.com [mailto:Michael.Dillon@radianz.com] > Sent: 2. júla 2002 15:43 > To: nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: Re: Ebone going off the air (at last)... > > > > >From what I can see personally, all BGP sessions with Ebone at major > >peering points in Europe went down in the last two hours, > and all their > >customer interfaces appear to be shut (or in the process of > being shut > >down). SDH and DWDM customer circuits are also being torn down as we > >speak. > > Hmmm.... > Try a traceroute from inside the Ebone IP network at > http://www.ebone.net. > A few minutes ago it was still > working. > > Have you got any confirmation that they are, in fact, > shutting down the > DWDM equipment? This would leave everyone in the dark except for IRU > customers... > > --Michael Dillon > ex-Ebone > > >

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Re: Ebone going off the air (at last)...
by Michael.Dillon＠radianz.com 02 Jul '02

02 Jul '02

>From what I can see personally, all BGP sessions with Ebone at major >peering points in Europe went down in the last two hours, and all their >customer interfaces appear to be shut (or in the process of being shut >down). SDH and DWDM customer circuits are also being torn down as we >speak. Hmmm.... Try a traceroute from inside the Ebone IP network at http://www.ebone.net. A few minutes ago it was still working. Have you got any confirmation that they are, in fact, shutting down the DWDM equipment? This would leave everyone in the dark except for IRU customers... --Michael Dillon ex-Ebone

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Ebone Shutdown
by German Martinez 02 Jul '02

02 Jul '02

http://www.nocpeople.org/ebone/broadcast2.html

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