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Re: Networking Pearl Harbor in the Making
by J. Oquendo 07 Nov '05

07 Nov '05

On Mon, 7 Nov 2005, Blaine Christian wrote: > Don't use proprietary protocols and insist on interoperability. > Then make them play nice together! Good luck getting vendors to do something a-la "Open Standards" and withdrawing from labeling their product better because of "new and improved *PIMP* F(ool)u-ness!" So Cisco rewrote RIP to IGRP then to EIGRP patented "extended rip!" capabilities and made a profit. I blame those who were conned into falling for the bait because now they're stuck on that fish hook. But also those who failed to adapt and change faster are to be blamed. But what can you expect from a bunch of underappreciated volunteers. Where can I send a Starbucks coffee platter for those engineers in some upcoming event? =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ J. Oquendo GPG Key ID 0x97B43D89 http://mo.fscker.com :: Obscurity through Insecurity "How can we account for our present situation unless we believe that men high in this government are concerting to deliver us to disaster?" Joseph McCarthy "America's Retreat from Victory"

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RE: Networking Pearl Harbor in the Making
by Hannigan, Martin 07 Nov '05

07 Nov '05

> > On Mon, Nov 07, 2005 at 06:43:35AM -0500, J. Oquendo wrote: > > the center of the information security vortex. Because IOS > controls the > > routers that underpin most business networks as well as the > Internet, > > I think in general this is an argument against > converged networks, > the added complexity and outages may not be worth the gains.. Convergence isn't going away because Networld Week thinks routers are insecure (no, really?). It's an argument for vendor diversity. -M<

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BGP terminology question
by NetSecGuy 07 Nov '05

07 Nov '05

I asked this question on inet-access and it was suggested I try NANOG. I understand BGP flapping to be announcements followed by withdraws over a short period. I am seeing a peer with a large number of announcements and the normal number of withdraws. Is there a term to describe what I am seeing? I'd like to understand what is happening, but I've been looking for more info and can't seem to find anything. I suspect I am just not using the right words to search. If there isn't a term, why would a peer announce thousands of time an hour with very few withdraws?

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oh k can you see
by Randy Bush 07 Nov '05

07 Nov '05

so a few of us are still looking at routing through the anycast sunglasses. a particular probe is seeing instability [0] for k.root-servers.net [1]. so we hop on to a router nearby, and have some fun looking at things. we discover an anomaly which takes a while to sort out o some of the anycasted servers mark their announcements with the magic NO_EXPORT community in an attempt to localize their distribution (it would be good if a server in kenya did not take load from nyc) o they also have a server or two which does not so mark their announcements on the presumption that the rest of the world can get to those non-marking server(s) this last assumption is not safe o consider large providers p0 and p1 which are connected to k0 which announces with NO_EXPORT o there is also server k1 which is out there somewhere and announcing without NO_EXPORT o test point t0 is in a multi-homed asn connected to p0 and p1 o the routers in p0 and p1 at which t0's router is connected have their best path to k being the one to k0 o this obscures their path to k1 o and, as they obey k0's NO_EXPORT, they can not export any route to a k.root-servers.net server to t0 o so t0 sees no route to k.root-servers.net this implies that a non-trivial part of the net can not see anycast services for which some of the servers are marking their announcements as NO_EXPORT. note that we saw this from a multi-homed site in seattle, not from some more net-isolated probe. whoops! randy --- [0] - please remember, this is not that the servers are unstable, but rather that routing near the probe is unstable, and the anycasted prefixes are likely to show this more than those which are unicast. [1] - side note: we got misled for a few seconds by % host k.root-servers.org. k.root-servers.org has address 193.0.0.214 % host k.root-servers.net. k.root-servers.net has address 193.0.14.129

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Re: Domino and Message-ID's
by David Lesher 06 Nov '05

06 Nov '05

{empty msg-ID....} > Are you sure it's really missing? It's supposed to be between < and > > symbols. If you're seeing that email through a web interface, or your > email client is either attempting to display or attempting to strip > all HTML from the message, it might be invisible or missing from your > perspective. A) Yes it is blank. I have seen it on multiple recipients, some with postfix, others EIMS, and "He's dead, Jim" applies. I only stumbled onto this because Eudora will sometimes NOT show you the message; and other times will show it when it is new, and THEN make it vanish. I thought I was losing my mind because that message was right here and..... (Looks like Eudora may index on that field, and when there are two or more, bye!) B) Yes, other Notes installations make proper Message-ID's. So does theirs most of the time; 90% of their mail to me is OK. (I looked in my file of mail from him and grepped.) C) My friend's not an admin of NANOG level, but he's FAR from stoopid, and spent 4+ hours looking at every variable you can set to no avail. They have 2 servers, and it's not clear if only one is doing this, but we think that's the case. D) I do see other mentions, such as: http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/postfix/2005-02/1412.html and http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.mail.imap.cyrus/day=20050907 but mostly on people wanting to patch THEIR end to make up for Note's borkeness...NOT how to fix it. Hence this query. -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz(a)nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

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Domino and Message-ID's
by David Lesher 06 Nov '05

06 Nov '05

I've figured out that a friend's Domino Notes server is [being generous..] saving energy by skimping on bits; the Message-ID headers are as you see below. |X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0 August 18, 2005 |Date: 03-Nov-2005 09:12:57 EST |Message-ID: |X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on IPMail01/IPSW(Release 6.5.1|January 21, 2004) at 11/03/2005 | 09:13:00 AM |MIME-Version: 1.0 |Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII The usual sources on a fix come up snake-eyes. Has any NANOGer run into a solution for this errr... unique RFC interpretation? -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz(a)nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

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Re: classful routes redux
by Geoff Huston 05 Nov '05

05 Nov '05

At 03:09 AM 5/11/2005, Christopher L. Morrow wrote: >On Fri, 4 Nov 2005, Russ White wrote: > > > > - -- BGP is currently moving to a 2^32 space for AS numbers. That's odd, > > if there's only 18,044 origins in the current table, and it won't ever > > grow to much more--how'd we lose 40,000 or so AS numbers, that we now > > need more than 64,000? > >I think someone at CAIDA or even Renesys could put out some good numbers >for 'origin' AS counts and even 'AS in aspath' It's slightly higher than >18k, but not 40k higher :) At last look (during arin/nanog meeting) it was >about 20k unique origins (from 701 perspective as seen through >routeviews) As of a few minutes ago there are 21.042 unique ASs seen in Route-Views. 13,997 are origin onlu (i.e. they are not seen in the middle of an AS path), 66 are transit only and 6.979 are mixes origin + transit. 8,554 ASs announce a single prefix, while the average announcements per origin AS is 9.1 (the reason is a heavy tail distribution where a small number of ASs originate a very large number of prefixes) The average address span for an origin AS is 70,426 /32s (or slightly larger than a /16) Again this is a heavy tail distribution. (more time series data on the routing table than you'd ever want is at http://bgp.potaroo.net/as4637/ and http://bgp.potaroo.net/as6447) The overall trend is the association of fewer addresses per originating AS, pointing to a trend to impose ever finer levels of policy delineation within the inter-domain routing mesh at places closer to the edge of the network - i.e. multi-homing and traffic engineering within an increasingly dense interconnection mesh appear to be one of the major motivations here for the continued consumption of AS numbers. The CAIDA skitter graphs are perhaps the most dramatic way I've encountered so far that clearly shows this trend. regards Geoff

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(no subject)
by Ron Muir 05 Nov '05

05 Nov '05

unsubscribe

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VerizonWireless/VText Contact
by Dennis Dayman 04 Nov '05

04 Nov '05

In need of a VerizonWireless/VText contact who can troubleshoot some network issues on their side. Could not find anything in the NOClist. -Dennis

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freebsd hands on in westin?
by Randy Bush 04 Nov '05

04 Nov '05

anyone around who can do a freebsd hands-on in westin this eve or tomorrow? rob austein, genuine good guy and hero of the revolution, has an antique 2ru freebsd 4.11 box in my rack in on the 18th. boot blocks are mashed, there is no vga card, and it is not talking over the serial. so it needs a cdrom job. but rob is in cambridge mass and i am in hawai`i. the suggested plan is in an email from rob i have stashed at <http://rip.psg.com/~randy/051103.hands-on.txt>. thanks! randy

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