November 1996 - Test - lists.nanog.org

spamspamspam (fwd)
by dgaudet＠plebe.com 13 Nov '96

13 Nov '96

And yet again the usefulness of whois contacts is eroded. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm beginning to indirect all my whois information through idiot filters -- indirect email addresses, alternate phone numbers. I don't even run anything large. What's going to be left to contact other network operators if whois becomes useless? Hopefully the RADB... if everyone were in it. At least this program below doesn't use prtraceroute to find upstream providers, yet. Dean ------- start of forwarded message ------- Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 23:54:50 GMT From: steveha(a)net-services.compulink.co.uk (Steve Harris) Get lots of e-mail offering you get-rich-quick schemes? Want to hit back? "Spam Hater" is free Windows software that helps you respond effectively and makes it hot for these people. * Analyses the Spam * Extracts a list of addresses of relevant Postmasters, etc. * Generates a "WHOIS" query to help track the perpetrator * Prepares a reply * Choice of legal threats, insults or your own message * Appends a copy of the Spam if required * Puts it in a mail window ready for sending Spam Hater works with lots of popular e-mail programs directly - there's no tedious cutting and pasting. Supported E-Mail Programs Ameol, AOL 2.5I, Eudora Light 1.5.2, 1.5.4, Eudora Pro 2.2, Free Agent 0.99, Microsoft Internet Explorer 3.0 (4.70.1155), Netscape 1.2N, 2.02 3.0 Pegasus Mail V2.4X, Virtual Access V3.51. Download from http://www.compulink.co.uk/~net-services/spam/ ------- end of forwarded message -------

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Re: Why doesn't BGP...
by Vadim Antonov 12 Nov '96

12 Nov '96

I'm actually quite sure -- the reaction time of the control unit should be less than the characteristic period of the controlled system. Think of it as a big pendulum which is subjected to rapid kicks -- by applying kicks at different directions you can keep pendulum at any angle. Try that if the pendulum swings faster than you can kick :) Not that it is very useful for updating metrics, but you can imagine a car radio which makes congestion announcements fast enough, so as to load 101 and 280 equally (car here, car there). Wait a second, that reminds me of something :) --vadim From: alex(a)relcom.eu.net Subject: Re: Why doesn't BGP... Vadim, are you shure about this? Withouth the friction - what would you got this case? Very big pendulum, isn't it?

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Re: Why doesn't BGP...
by Vadim Antonov 12 Nov '96

12 Nov '96

Peter Lothberg <roll(a)Stupi.SE> wrote: >On the radio1:: > "101 north is congested, take 280 instead" > >Guess what hapens 5 minutes laster; >On the radio2:: > "280 north is congested, take 101 instead" >goto on the radio1 Goto the theory of control systems :) This is a textbook case of a system with too strong negative feedback loop. There are two ways to deal with that -- reduce the feedback (say, make the announcement in a barely intelligible speech, so only 1/3rd of drivers will get it :), or increase inertia of the system (by posting 10MPH speed limit :), so announcements can come fast enough to compensate each other. Seriously, the load-sensitive traffic management _can_ be done, but to do it you a) need full knowledge of the load patterns, plus some historical data, and b) have a way to control system in steps less drastic than rerouting an entire flow. Can't be done with ciscos, or any existing routers... --vadim

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RE: Why doesn't BGP... Why not? I'm not redistributing.
by Chris A. Icide 11 Nov '96

11 Nov '96

Ed, The problem being, you would need state information from the entire Internet (or at least to the networks that you are trying to reach), forcing everyone in the path to any of those networks to run the same protocol and maintain state information. Currently, the technology to perform such a function is available only in pre-production equipment. Most of the core routers of the internet are already struggling with just maintaining the packet flow. The addition of a new global state protocol would bury the things. Chris ---------- Ed's comments appended I'm basically a stub network. I take routes from 3 AS's right now, but I don't redistribute anything I learn. The only redistribution that goes on for me is in my iBGP peering. The convincing argument for me against doing the "intelligent" route selection has been related to the huge route flapping that would ensue. My question is, if I'm not redistributing the routes (except internally, and I have a certain tolerance for route flapping internally) then why not do the intelligent route selection? (the route selection would of course have dampening parameters etc.. and be turned off by default, but have the ability to be enabled, etc) Ed Henigin ed(a)texas.net

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Re: Why doesn't BGP... -Reply
by Neal Castagnoli 11 Nov '96

11 Nov '96

Routing does not use an exponential NP-Complete algorithm (like the travelling salesman). The travelling salesman problem tries to solve the cheapest way in which a salesman can visit every one of a set of cities. In fact, routing can be done in order (n) with a bounded metric and bounded distance, since it really is only trying to find the cheapest way to get to a single destination. What I don't know, is why is it that SS7, the telephone routing protocol, can do some of the things that are required, like load sharing across unequal paths, for example. Does anyone have any insight into this? --Neal >>> Avi Freedman <freedman(a)netaxs.com> 11/09/96 05:31am >>> I understand that IOS 12.0 will solve the travelling salesman problem for arbitrary number of cities. Seems they had to find a way to solve NP-complete problems in sub-exponential time in order to give us better algorithms for guaranteed-optimal routing. Anyway, sorry to be snide - any suggestions you have about algorithms for exchanging routing data between (or inside of) providers that also takes into account link size and perhaps hop-count, as opposed to just AS-PATH, are welcome at the next IETF meeting. Avi

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Re: Why doesn't BGP...
by Peter Lothberg 11 Nov '96

11 Nov '96

> * Why doesn't BGP pick the link with the highest bandwidth, or, better > * yet, pick the link with the highest bandwidth AND least congestion to > * label as the "best" available route? The needed information is avail- > > The first one is easy, in fact you can do that yourself by fiddling > with metrics or such on the different BGP sessions. The second one > would have dramatic consequences in terms of route instability. You > pick one route now because of load on the link, the load changes and > you pick the other, now BGP will have to change the announcement of > this network to other peers. So, now we not only have flaps because of > links/routers going up and down, we also have flap because of load > changes on the network. The result: you are dampened out forever, or > the network falls over. > > -Marten On the radio1:: "101 north is congested, take 280 instead" Guess what hapens 5 minutes laster; On the radio2:: "280 north is congested, take 101 instead" goto on the radio1 --Peter

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Re: Why doesn't BGP...
by Tine Hutchison 11 Nov '96

11 Nov '96

---------- : From: Vadim Antonov <avg(a)pluris.com> : Seriously, the load-sensitive traffic management _can_ be done, : but to do it you a) need full knowledge of the load patterns, : plus some historical data, and b) have a way to control system : in steps less drastic than rerouting an entire flow. : : Can't be done with ciscos, or any existing routers... : : --vadim Not true... 3Com's Internet Backbone class router will do it! Well, someday it will, maybe, if that's what we really want, it could... perhaps. Tine Hutchison Network Engineer Interaccess Co. tine(a)interaccess.com 312/496-4653

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Small update on CIDR Report
by jerryp＠mailserv.pcqt.com 11 Nov '96

11 Nov '96

You can now check this on a daily basis via HTML at the following URL http://www.employees.org:80/~tbates/cidr-report.html This is just a very basic translation of the CIDR report I send out once a week but now updated on a daily basis. I will continue to send out the weekly mail updates. I'll be adding more to the Web interface as time permits. For those interested in todays report it highlights a very large leak of almost 1200 routes by AS719 which they wish to take a look at. I'll let others draw their own conclusions from the rest of the data. Regards, --Tony --------------------------------- Jerry Phannenstill jerryp(a)pcqt.com jerryp(a)mcs.com "Where you want to go today is not neccessarily where you want to be tomorrow" ---------------------------------

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Re: XPs overloaded?
by Paul Ferguson 11 Nov '96

11 Nov '96

Cute. ;-) - paul At 07:32 AM 11/11/96 -0500, Bradley Dunn wrote: >Next time someone tries to tell you that the NAPs and MAEs are overloaded, >just point them to: >http://www.mfs.net/MAE/ny.cat1.overlay.html > >:-) > >-BD > > >

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XPs overloaded?
by Bradley Dunn 11 Nov '96

11 Nov '96

Next time someone tries to tell you that the NAPs and MAEs are overloaded, just point them to: http://www.mfs.net/MAE/ny.cat1.overlay.html :-) -BD

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