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Re: optics pricing (Re: Weird GigE Media Converter Behavior)
by Dickson, Brian 02 Sep '04

02 Sep '04

Actually, (and this is from memory from a couple of years ago), most of the reason for cost of optics on 10G interfaces is simply *physics* (and the technology of component production at the current state-of-the-art level). (If any of the people questioning the pricing had bothered to look into *cost* (you know, that "input" thing before mark-up), or done any reading (and "light" reading doesn't count ;-)), you'd already know the reasons.) What it boils down to, is that the way solid-state on-chip lasers are made, for 1.0 GHz (really 933 MHz, IIRC), or even 2.5 GHz, fundamentally doesn't work for 10Ghz. It's because they are *lasers*, where component accuracy is really critical, and at 10Ghz, it crosses a threshold that likely won't be solved until someone clever invents some new way of doing things, or until "nanotech" becomes nanotech (without the quotes). And the VSR 10G, is really a misnomer. What it is, is 10 x 1.25 GHz "parallel" interface with fibre-optic ribbon cables. The 10 is so they can build in some hardware redundancy in case of failure, and also to improve the yields and infant mortality rates on production of the chips. Basically, 1.25 GHz (or maybe it's 1.125? It's been too long) are easy to do, with current-generation chip-production technology. 10Ghz optics are old-school lasers, several orders of magnitude larger, much more power-hungry, delicate, and in all likelyhood, hand-crafted with low yields. They really are that expensive. Just check out the price on 10G transponders (eg DWDM equipment) if you don't believe that's the case... On the other hand, it'd be nice to see a copper 10GBIC, even if its max cable length were a few metres. ;-) Keep in mind, I'm following standard NANOG methodology and quoting old information without checking my facts against current reality. :-) Your mileage (or cost) may vary, as they say. -------------------------------------- Brian Dickson Arbinet

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OT: Arnold on BGP
by Mike McSpedon 02 Sep '04

02 Sep '04

"To doze who cridisize da BGP protocol, I say dis: DON'T BE NETVERK GIRLY-MEN" Mike McSpedon Arrow Global Data Communications Arrow Electronics, Inc. 50 Marcus Drive Melville, New York 11747

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DNS Anycast as traffic optimizer?
by Steve Francis 02 Sep '04

02 Sep '04

I'm sure there is research out there, but I can't find it, so does anyone know of any research showing how good/bad using DNS anycast is as a kludgey traffic optimiser? (i.e. having multiple datacenters, all anycasting the authoritative name server for a domain, but each datacenters' DNS server resolving the domain name to an IP local to that datacenter, under the assumption that if the end user hit that DNS server first, there is "some" relationship between that datacenter and good performance for that user.) THe question is, what is that "some" relationship? 80% as good as Akamai? Terrible? TIA

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RE: XP SP2 other than windows update
by Michel Py 02 Sep '04

02 Sep '04

> Steven Susbauer wrote: > I hadn't heard they were keeping it off akamai. Me neither. Although I had it for a while I downloaded it from the Microsoft web site again twice today (did not bother to look where it resolved), from home and office, and it came each time in less than 15 minutes for the full network install file. Maybe there's something wrong with the incremental download (which I never use, even for home) but the full download worked full speed for me each and every time I tried. > I have heard they're asking ISP's not to mirror it (and any > other mirrors), and have shut down bittorrent downloads. > That's understandable as they would be blamed if someone > downloaded a compromised version (strange how they didn't > mind Sp1 mirroring...). I can understand whu also, but it's all over eDonkey though and a little bird has emailed me several working bittorents for it (don't ask me even privately). Purely for educational purposes, I connected to eDonkey and started to download it about an hour ago. Currently I am downloading at 73kBytes/sec from 11 simultaneous sources out of 596 possible ones. http://home.pacbell.net/arn-py/photos/sp2.JPG It's not nearly as fast as downloading directly from Microsoft/Akamai though, but don't tell me that it's hard to get. When the download completes I will do a binary comparison with the one I downloaded from M$. Stay tuned. Bottom line: If you have a dial-up modem it does not matter where you get it from as it will take all night anyway, so get it from Microsoft there are less unknowns about the authenticity. If you have broadband, bittorrents gets nuked all the time and eDonkey is not as fast as Akamai, so also get it from Microsoft also. Michel.

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RE: Definition of P2P (was Feinstein)
by Joe Johnson 02 Sep '04

02 Sep '04

You're staring in on a good point. What happens when this backfires, and they mis-define (or badly define) P2P traffic? What if it is so broad that any traffic routed from one point to another is illegal? What if my dark fiber is against federal law? Who would fight for or against that? Would you shutdown your routers or switches that do P2P links? All this hit here in Illinois when the Super DCMA took effect, and it technically became illegal to use a router in your home (as the Illinois DCMA restricts the ability to hide the source or destination of any electronic communication, kinda like NAT). I certainly didn't pull NAT off my home or my office connections! I think no one has been called down (e.g., no one has challenged) on the law, but I could be arrested at any time for running a basic Netgear router on my broadband at home. Joe Johnson > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of > David A. Ulevitch > Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 7:32 PM > To: nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: Re: Definition of P2P (was Feinstein) > > > > <quote who="Bora Akyol"> > > > > Sorry, was it possible to search for a file from > millions of storage > > nodes > > in IRC? > > Yes, not that millions of storage nodes were connected... > > Napster was more or less a glorified version of IRC w/DCC, that's why it > was centralized for searching. > > Anyways, we all know the biggest P2P bit movers are the routers... > > -davidu > > ---------------------------------------------------- > David A. Ulevitch - Founder, EveryDNS.Net > http://david.ulevitch.com -- http://everydns.net > ---------------------------------------------------- >

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force10 gear experiences/thoughts/comments
by Paul G 02 Sep '04

02 Sep '04

folks, looking to continue the week which has been going strong so far with no mention of gmail, verisign and bad analogies, i have these questions i'm hoping someone can chime in on: * any good/bad experiences with force10 gear in general? * thoughts on usage in a relatively simple multi-homed bgp environment? * general commercial experience with their sales, support etc? cheers, paul

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IMP #1
by Peter H Salus 02 Sep '04

02 Sep '04

Tomorrow (Sept. 2) it will be 35 years since IMP #1 was plugged in at Len Kleinrock's lab at UCLA. Happy Birthday! Peter

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Re: IMP #1
by Peter H Salus 02 Sep '04

02 Sep '04

Sorry, Karl. IMP #2 went into Englebart at SRI; IMP #3 to UC-Santa Barbara; IMP #4 to University of Utah. That was it in 1969: a four-note ARPAnet. Peter

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Cyclades KVM/Net
by Chris Allermann 02 Sep '04

02 Sep '04

If anybody is currently using a Cyclades KVM/Net please contact me off list. Thanks.

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Re: IMP #1
by Gregory Hicks 01 Sep '04

01 Sep '04

> Cc: nanog(a)merit.edu > From: Iljitsch van Beijnum <iljitsch(a)muada.com> > Subject: Re: IMP #1 > Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 01:19:36 +0200 > To: Peter H Salus <peter(a)netpedant.com> > > > On 1-sep-04, at 22:40, Peter H Salus wrote: > > > Tomorrow (Sept. 2) it will be 35 years since IMP #1 > > was plugged in at Len Kleinrock's lab at UCLA. > > > Happy Birthday! > > Well, one IMP does not a network make... When did they connect the > second one? Dunno when they connected the second one, but #10 (Univ of Utah) was connected sometime during the academic year in 1970-71... That's when I was hired as a "research assistant" to implement some initial RFCs (like FTP...) Regards, Gregory Hicks > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Gregory Hicks | Principal Systems Engineer Cadence Design Systems | Direct: 408.576.3609 555 River Oaks Pkwy M/S 6B1 | Fax: 408.894.3400 San Jose, CA 95134 | Internet: ghicks(a)cadence.com I am perfectly capable of learning from my mistakes. I will surely learn a great deal today. "A democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding on what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the results of the decision." - Benjamin Franklin "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." --Alexander Hamilton

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