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Re: BBN outage
by Sanjay Dani 13 Oct '96

13 Oct '96

>From: Per Gregers Bilse <bilse(a)EU.net> > > Because loss of connectivity for a day costs 10's of thousands > > of dollars and, evidently, even the "big" companies are not > > immune from "acts of god" like what happened today. > > Please distinguish between singly-connected and singly-homed, they > really are two different things. If Sun has just a plain, regular > connection, a garden variety leased line outage will take them out. > If OTOH they had had a connection to one of BBN's other CA POPs, they > would have been just fine. It is intuitively obvious that the > advantage of multihoming does not outweigh the additional complexity, > cost and failure modes, whereas multiconnecting can be done at > reasonable cost while actually providing more reliable service > overall. All information clearly indicates that the PA outage was > one of these near-enough disasters that can and do happen, just like > hurricanes and floods and whatever. You can't blame BBN for that, > but you could conceivably blame Sun, InfoWorld and/or whoever for > having just a single connection, if they're supposed to take their > Internet business seriously -- do these people really want to be > taken out by a blown CSU/DSU? I did not say multi-homing by itself would be a cure-all. I picked Sun as an example among the affected customers because they do have several interconnected physical locations in the bay area, US-wide and abroad and also in-house expertise on routing. It is just that a whole bunch of smart people running Sun's NOC must have felt helpless.. If only they had a pipe going out to somewhere else, another provider in the bay area in this case, they could have reconfigured routers and minimized the hit. In hindsight, solutions to tolerate a given failure are very easy to come by but shouldn't be talked down. I did not blame BBN--shit happens--but I wouldn't assume that their NOC is necessarily designed to be more fault tolerant than what a smaller ISP can or what the people at Sun could if they didn't somehow assume IP transit out of BBN was fault tolerant enough. For all you know, Sun might have multiple pipes connecting to BBN, multipe routers and CSU/DSU spares. I know for sure a client of BBN's cupertino POP was affected because all BBN traffic in the bay area, as far as I can tell, went/goes through the stanford location. Sanjay.

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Re: Intra/Inter - was Inet-II
by Paul Ferguson 13 Oct '96

13 Oct '96

At 07:38 PM 10/12/96 -0700, Bill Manning wrote: > >This almost sounds like an EGP apologist... :) >I know that several folks have identified the problems in these two >protocols and are working on fixes which range from patches to new >protocols. > >Simplifing the mesh is no longer a tenable position, IMHO. Its time >onceee again, to upgrade the in-flight 747, but this time >its not changing the wings, now we rebuild it to a 777 :) > This almost sounds like an Internet II apologist. ;-) - paul

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Speakers: 7th Maryland Workshop on High Speed Networks
by Account of Maryland Center for Telecommunications Research 13 Oct '96

13 Oct '96

*************************************************************************** Presentations at the 7TH MARYLAND WORKSHOP ON VERY HIGH SPEED NETWORKS Nov. 5-6, 1996 *************************************************************************** Maryland Center for Telecommunications Research Department of Computer Science and Electrical Engineering University of Maryland Baltimore County *************************************************************************** For agenda and other information, visit URL: http://www.mctr.umbc.edu *************************************************************************** 1. Bob Kahn: (CNRI) (Keynote Address) <TBD> 2. Scott Bradner (Harvard University) Current Status, Problems and Future Ditections of ATM Technology 3. Richard desJardins and Andy Germain (NASA Goddard Space Flight Center) Networks for NASA Earth Observing System Data and Information System (EOSDIS) 4. Allison Mankin (USC/ISI-Washington Center) and Javad Boroumand (NASA) Collaborative Advanced Interagency Research Network (CAIRN) -- IPv6 Prototyping 5. Patrick Dowd (United States Department of Defense) ATDnet - A Large Wide Area Multi-gigabit ATM Testbed 6. John Baras (University of Maryland. College Park) Integrated Management of Hybrid Broadband Networks 7. Dinkar Sitaram (IBM Watson Research Center) Video Servers: Applications and Architectures 8. Ender Ayanoglu, Kai Eng and Mark Karol (Bell Labs, Lucent Technologies) Wireless ATM: Limits, Challenges, and Proposals 9. C.A. Johnston D. Raychaudhuri (NEC USA, C&C Research Laboratories) Overview of the WATMnet System 10. Jack Holtzman and Fang-Chen Cheng (Rutgers University) A Wireless ATM Architecture 11. Mahmoud Naghshineh (IBM Watson Research Center) QoS in Wireless/Mobile ATM Networks 12. <Speaker from Motorola> <TBD> <Wireless ATM> 13. Rob Coltun (Fore Systems) <ATM/Routing><TBD> 14. Dan Daly and Nim Cheung (Bellcore) Bandwidth Management Schemes in Broadband Networks 15. Michael Levender (Cisco-Stratacom) <ATM Networks><TBD> 16. Maryann Perez Maher and Suresh Bhogavilli (USC/ISI-Washington Center) Implementation and Analysis of Multicast Address Resolution Server (MARS) 17. Brad Karp (Harvard University & USC/ISI-Washington Center) Implementation and Analysis of Available Bit Rate (ABR) 18. Allison Mankin (USC/ISI-Washington Center) Rational ATM in the Collaborative Advanced Interagency Research Network (CAIRN) 19. Alex Birman (IBM Watson Research Center) RSVP-Based Flows over ATM Networks 20. Ellen W. Zegura (Georgia Tech) Mapping Complex Applications to Network Services 21. Krishna Bala (Bellcore) Architectures for Multiwavelength Optical Networks 22. C. J. Chen and Peter K. Runge (AT&T Laboratories) The Africa ONE WDM Network 23. Ender Ayanoglu (Bell Labs, Lucent Technologies) Is Wavelength Conversion in WDM Networks Viable? 24. Imrich Chlamtac (Boston University), Viktoria Elek (Technical University of Budapesti), Andrea Fumagalli (Politecnico di Torino) Improving Bandwidth Efficiency in Scalable WDM Networks with SDL Bridging 25. Vern Paxson (LBL) Measurements of End-to-End Internet Dynamics 26. Avi Silberschatz, et al., (Bell Labs, Lucent Technologies) On Networking Applications of High Performance Main-Memory Databases *************************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------- 7th Maryland Workshop on Very High Speed Networks ---------------------------------------------------- November 5-6, 1996 Maryland Center for Telecommunications Research Department of Computer Science and Electrical Engineering University of Maryland Baltimore County Keynote Speaker: Dr. Robert E. Kahn, President CNRI The Maryland Center for Telecommunications Research (MCTR) and the Department of Computer Science and Electrical Engineering at the University of Maryland Baltimore County (UMBC) will hold the 7th Maryland Workshop on Very High Speed Networks on November 5-6, 1996 at the UMBC campus. The Workshop will be held in the Ballroom of the University Center on the UMBC campus. The goal of the Workshop is to bring together experts in related areas to discuss progress and research issues in the design and implementation of very high speed communication networks. Each of the previous workshops attracted approximately 150 researchers representing academia, industry and government. The two day meeting will include invited speakers and contributed presentations. Papers on selected presentations will appear in a special issue of the Journal of High Speed Networks. For more information on the workshop and directions to UMBC, check our home page on WWW.(http://www.mctr.umbc.edu) A registration fee of $325 will include two lunches and conference proceeding. For questions regarding the technical content of the workshop or giving a presentation, please contact the workshop organizer, Dr. Deepinder Sidhu, at Tel: (410) 455-3028 or 3063, Fax: (410) 455-3969, Email: mctr(a)cs.umbc.edu. Mail checks (payable to University of Maryland Foundation) and registration form to Dr. Deepinder Sidhu, Maryland Center for Telecommunications Research, University of Maryland Baltimore County, 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250. All funds for this event will be managed by the UM Foundation. Please DO NOT include hotel accommodation expenses in your payment for the Workshop Registration. Room payment should be made directly to the hotel you selected for stay. The following hotels are closest to the UMBC campus. BWI Airport is approximately five miles from the UMBC Campus. 1. Sheraton International Hotel - BWI Airport. Closest to the airport and the UMBC campus. Tel: (410) 859-3300 or (800) 638-5858 2. Holiday Inn - BWI Airport. Close to the airport and the UMBC campus. Tel: (410) 859-8400 or (800) HOLIDAY 3. Omni Inner Harbor Hotel. Close to Downtown Baltimore / Inner Harbor and about 20 minutes drive to the UMBC campus. Tel: (410) 752-1100 or (800) 843-6664 For more information on the workshop and directions to UMBC, check our home page on WWW: http://www.mctr.umbc.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7th Maryland Workshop on Very High Speed Networks (November 5-6, 1996) Registration Form Name: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Affiliation: ------------------------------------------------------------- Address: ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- Phone: Fax: Email: ---------------- ------------- ------------ Dietary Restriction : Vegetarian Kosher ---------- ------------ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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your comments
by mo＠UU.NET 13 Oct '96

13 Oct '96

please read my note again. I was NOT saying how I could have done better. that was PRECISELY my point.

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RE Re: BBN outage
by Jon Bosanac 12 Oct '96

12 Oct '96

To: Michael Dillon <michael(a)memra.com> > So BBN says they are now going to install a generator, my question is why > was a generator not installed? They saved 20 - 100K on a generator, but I > bet they will lose more then that when users leave. So, were you saying something? -jon

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Re: Creating exchanges [Was: Re: MAE-East - 30%]
by rja＠cisco.com 12 Oct '96

12 Oct '96

Robert, It is my understanding that one can access the fiber transiting Guam without any special obstacles. Ran PS: Go look at UUNET's map online... --

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Creating exchanges [Was: Re: MAE-East - 30%]
by Paul Ferguson 12 Oct '96

12 Oct '96

This is also the reason why we [collectively] are encouraging the creation of local exchange points outside of North America. The situation where two providers in The Phillipines (for example) have to back-haul traffic to the US to exchange bits is contributing to the overall problem. This needs to be fixed, but it certainly won't happen overnight, primarily due to the economic situation in the general locale. The possibility to correct this problem increases as deregulation happens. - paul At 02:08 PM 10/9/96 -0700, Michael Dillon wrote: >Isn't this the reason that MAE-East is at 30%, i.e. there are now many >private interconnects between tier 1 NSP's to offload traffic from major >exchanges like MAE-East? > >Not to mention that MAE-East is no longer the only major interconnect, a >fact that seems to be taking some time to work it's way into >net.mythology. >

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Re: BBN outage
by Per Gregers Bilse 12 Oct '96

12 Oct '96

> > Why, just a few weeks ago there was a big discussion here on the > > NANOG list that definitively proved that end-user multihoming > > REDUCED reliability for that customer. BBN is a big company... > > why would you want to risk all the complexity of having a > > backup circuit to someone else? > > Because loss of connectivity for a day costs 10's of thousands > of dollars and, evidently, even the "big" companies are not > immune from "acts of god" like what happened today. Please distinguish between singly-connected and singly-homed, they really are two different things. If Sun has just a plain, regular connection, a garden variety leased line outage will take them out. If OTOH they had had a connection to one of BBN's other CA POPs, they would have been just fine. It is intuitively obvious that the advantage of multihoming does not outweigh the additional complexity, cost and failure modes, whereas multiconnecting can be done at reasonable cost while actually providing more reliable service overall. All information clearly indicates that the PA outage was one of these near-enough disasters that can and do happen, just like hurricanes and floods and whatever. You can't blame BBN for that, but you could conceivably blame Sun, InfoWorld and/or whoever for having just a single connection, if they're supposed to take their Internet business seriously -- do these people really want to be taken out by a blown CSU/DSU? -- ------ ___ --- Per G. Bilse, Mgr Network Operations ----- / / / __ ___ _/_ ---- EUnet Communications Services B.V. ---- /--- / / / / /__/ / ----- Singel 540, 1017 AZ Amsterdam, NL --- /___ /__/ / / /__ / ------ tel: +31 20 5305333, fax: +31 20 6224657 --- ------- 24hr emergency number: +31 20 421 0865 --- Connecting Europe since AS286 --- http://www.EU.net e-mail: bilse(a)EU.net

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Re: BBN outage
by matthew＠scruz.net 12 Oct '96

12 Oct '96

Original message <199610112242.PAA26232(a)osprey.webpros.com> From: Sanjay Dani(maillists) <indus(a)professionals.com> Date: Oct 11, 15:42 Subject: Re: BBN outage > ... > On an unrelated note, I still have hard time believing > companies like Sun are single homed through bbnplanet > and have no backup when things like this happen. Why, just a few weeks ago there was a big discussion here on the NANOG list that definitively proved that end-user multihoming REDUCED reliability for that customer. BBN is a big company... why would you want to risk all the complexity of having a backup circuit to someone else? -matthew kaufman matthew(a)scruz.net

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Re: BBN outage
by dlr＠bungi.com 12 Oct '96

12 Oct '96

[In the message entitled "Re: BBN outage" on Oct 11, 17:23, Matthew Kaufman writes:] > > You'd think us network-operators would learn from these past several > big outages and have a good, reliable, mailing list up by now, but > I haven't heard about one. I'm reluctant to start it myself, because I > don't have enough network paths out of here to make it useful during > a serious multi-provider problem. > I will be happy to create this. In fact, it is done. outage(a)bungi.com is the address, outage-request(a)bungi.com for subscription. Majordomo-run, so it should be pretty painless. Ready now. -- Dave Rand dlr(a)bungi.com http://www.bungi.com

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