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Re: generators, etc....
by Peter Lothberg 17 Oct '96

17 Oct '96

> > Even when you have generators, there are still a myriad of things which > > can and do go wrong no matter how hard you try, even with trebly > > redundant backups, etc. etc. > > > > A fuel supplier accidently puts half a load of jet fuel instead of #2 > > diesel in your storage tank, which you won't find until it reloads the > > run tank from the day tank. > > Run the generator under load periodically. Have your gen maintenance > contractor do fuel tests quarterly. Water is just as bad in the Diesel > tank. This can be solved, it's a matter of logistics and procedures, when did you last hear that an airline filled with diesel instead of Jet-A1? -Peter Before anyone statrs to build a very expensive pop, revisit the idea of several locations and geograpghical diversity, as it is close to defend a single locataion, a competing ISP could go around and cut all your wires....

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Re: generators, etc....
by Peter Lothberg 17 Oct '96

17 Oct '96

> > Sure, Mike, but how do you protect against an airplane falling > > out of the sky? Build the pop by blasting out a tunnel deep into a mountain and out again on the other side. Then a 90 degree shaft in the middle into the pop rom itself. (So, if somwone wan't to create a shockwave in the pop, they have to have two blasts, and it's hard to do rigt) > > or having the building that houses your generators flattened by > > a runaway semi? You have 2+2 generators, two in a backroom with it's own proper ventilation shaft, and one in each end of the tunnel that goes across the mountain. (You might concider Jet-turbines). Each generator has it's own fuel supply, and power wiring is redundant. The pop itself should be a -48V DC plant. > > Or the ever present possibility that the building next > > door will have a gas leak and explode? Explosions in the access tunnel is non fatal, and probably some gas- detectors and proper fans would be a good thing to have. > > And what about that house-sized meteor that could come hurtling down? Likely to shake the mountain, so, we build a house inside the cave, and put this house on suspenders (that will provide proper shock absortion). Airconditioning is a separate problem, usally the mountain leeks enough wather (+5 centigrades) that you can run through your heat-exchanger, or you have to drill for wather. If we have several of those locations, all with 24*7 staffin, I think it would be produce a good service, even when there are no customers left. --Peter Ps: Make sure that your external connections are redundant enough, microwave towers ontop are likely to be wiped out.. --::))

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RE: Cisco as Big Brother (Was Re: Cisco's AIP vs HSSI)
by Chris A. Icide 17 Oct '96

17 Oct '96

>One of the reasons that cisco has earned its place as Number One is >that, to my knowledge, cisco has never terminally screwed a client. >No other contender can make that claim with me. I've been screwed by >all of them, except cisco. They don't always give me what I want when >I want it, but they don't do fundamentally bad things like walking >away from the ISP market as Proteon did or wiping out their upper >management team as Wellfleet did from time to time. > > >--Kent I've had my problems with Cisco, and there have been many, however, I must say that when you poke them in the eye and say, "uhm, I've got a problem that needs fixing now!", the engineers pop out of the walls like that green thing in Ghostbusters. They slime things all up, and quickly pull a working solution out of the muck. In fact, I found myself at O'Hare Airport in Chicago early Sunday morning picking up two routers and a bunch of interface cards. Cisco had been working on an unidentifiable prblem, and decided that we may need to unload a couple of our routers so they zipped out a couple of extra routers to us, along with an engineer. Anyway, I know that I can count on their customer support organization to immediately respond to my needs. The ONLY other company I ever worked with that offered (and met) this level of support was HP. Chris

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Re: sprint and multihoming
by William Allen Simpson 17 Oct '96

17 Oct '96

> From: randy(a)psg.com (Randy Bush) > Some weeks back, I whined about SprintLink's policies and implementation in > respect to multi-homing. They did not leak the multi-homer's more specific > prefix outside of SprintLink. Nor did they accept the longer prefix from > outside, hence traffic from SL customers would die when the MHed site's SL > link was down. > Me, too.... > I just wanted to publicly thank SprintLink, and Hank Kilmer and his team in > particular, for fixing this. IMIHO, this makes SprintLink a reasonable > choice for a provider if you intend to multi-home. > Hmmm, well, as I reported here earlier, we already changed our ISP contract away from Sprint. But, for my clients, based on your representation that it is finally working, I suppose that I might be willing to at least allow Sprint in future multi-home bids, as long as the contract specifically requires Sprint to be on better behaviour. Thanks for the update, Randy! WSimpson(a)UMich.edu Key fingerprint = 17 40 5E 67 15 6F 31 26 DD 0D B9 9B 6A 15 2C 32 BSimpson(a)MorningStar.com Key fingerprint = 2E 07 23 03 C5 62 70 D3 59 B1 4F 5E 1D C2 C1 A2

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Are there plans to do MBONE broadcasts of the upcoming meeting?
by Curtis Generous 17 Oct '96

17 Oct '96

..for those of us who might not be able to make it to Michigan? There was a pretty good turnout on the last NANOG session in DC. --curtis -- Curtis Generous generous(a)uucom.com Phone: (703) 461-1350 UUcom Inc., Suite 250, 4875 Eisenhower Avenue, Alexandria, VA 22304-0797

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sprint and multihoming
by randy＠psg.com 17 Oct '96

17 Oct '96

Some weeks back, I whined about SprintLink's policies and implementation in respect to multi-homing. They did not leak the multi-homer's more specific prefix outside of SprintLink. Nor did they accept the longer prefix from outside, hence traffic from SL customers would die when the MHed site's SL link was down. I just wanted to publicly thank SprintLink, and Hank Kilmer and his team in particular, for fixing this. IMIHO, this makes SprintLink a reasonable choice for a provider if you intend to multi-home. Thanks SL. Thanks Hank. randy

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Re: hole punching reality check
by Eric Kozowski 17 Oct '96

17 Oct '96

>I would expect the world to see the following announcements. > >A - I announcing a shorter prefix, A >B - P announcing a more specific for the /24 allocated to C > >Is this not what we all expect? Sounds like the right thing to me. >Why I ask is we have provider P telling I that they should stop announcing A >and instead announce a bunch of prefixes around the /24. They're nuts. Eric -- Eric Kozowski Senior Network Engineer eric(a)structured.net Structured Network Systems, Inc. (503)656-3235 FAX Better, Cheaper, Faster -- pick any two. (800)881-0962 Voice http://www.structured.net/ "Providing High Quality, Reliable Internet Service" -- 56k to DS1

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Re: Cisco as Big Brother (Was Re: Cisco's AIP vs HSSI)
by Paul Ferguson 16 Oct '96

16 Oct '96

At 06:30 AM 10/16/96 +0100, Peter Galbavy wrote: > >No. I think the phrase *actually* used at a meeting (I was elsewhere >that day) was "It is a priveledge to deal with a market leader like >Cisco." This was the Cisco sales rep, not us. sigh. > >Buy! Buy! Bye Bye. :-P > Well sorry to hear that you met up with such a twit. I personally carry a large baseball bat around for specifically that reason. I've even had to use it a few times. ;-) - paul

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Re: Building Evacuation [Re: BBN outage]
by Kent W. England 16 Oct '96

16 Oct '96

At 10:39 AM 10/16/96 -0400, Curtis Villamizar wrote: > >We have a backup NOC 1,200 miles away. All the tools are set up and >kept running in two places and at least once a year Ann Arbor >intentionally hands off NOC duties to Elmsford. The people issue is >the main problem, with Elmsford not being as familiar with day to day >NOC operations. Both NOCs are connected to two POPs in different >states with alegedly diverse circuits. Neither NOC has generators but >the last time the UPS ran out we had NOC service cut over in time. >This is also why we have DNS servers in different states (and kerberos >slave servers and other critical services). > >I don't think a cell phone and a laptop would cut it. > >Curtis > > Curtis; Nobody does it better. --Kent

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Re: Cisco as Big Brother (Was Re: Cisco's AIP vs HSSI)
by Paul J. Zawada 16 Oct '96

16 Oct '96

For the record, my Cisco saleperson and pre-sales engineer have always been supportive of my efforts to run a multi-vendor network and never has laid any of this "it's a priveledge to work with Cisco" crap on me. They don't do a hard sell to get my business, but that's OK since I prefer to talk to salespeople only when I need something from them... They don't hesitate to say they're better than everybody else, but they do continue to work for me instead of the other way around. (What salesperson doesn't claim to work for the company that's better than everyone else?) Having said that, there are certainly some salespeople with Cisco that are, to be polite, overzealous in their dealings with customers. These types of salespeople (whatever company they sell for) should be chased away immediately. It seems that most people that I've talked to that have had this experience with Cisco have been from Europe (not to say it doesn't happen in the US), so I wonder if for one reason or another the Cisco European salesforce tends to work that way. It's too bad for Cisco, because if they'd had used this tactic on me, I would have certainly shown them the door... --zawada At 06:30 AM 10/16/96 +0100, Peter Galbavy wrote: >> The salespeople in the UK are using that tactic too? If a sales rep >> EVER walked into my office and fed me a line like that, I would end the >> meeting right there. As it is, I refuse to do business with Cisco not >> because of their products, but because of their marketing department >> and their corporate attitude of "We're the best, nobody can touch us, >> and if you want to buy our product you better bend over backwards to do >> what we want you to do." That was their attitude three years ago when >> our company was just getting started, and I haven't noticed it change >> much today. > >No. I think the phrase *actually* used at a meeting (I was elsewhere >that day) was "It is a priveledge to deal with a market leader like >Cisco." This was the Cisco sales rep, not us. sigh. > >Buy! Buy! Bye Bye. :-P > >Regards, >-- >Peter Galbavy peter(a)wonderland.org >@ Home phone://44/973/499465 >in Wonderland http://www.wonderland.org/~peter/ > snail://UK/NW1_6LE/London/21_Harewood_Avenue/ > > Paul J. Zawada, RCDD | Senior Network Engineer zawada(a)ncsa.uiuc.edu | National Center for Supercomputing Applications +1 217 244 4728 | http://www.ncsa.uiuc.edu/People/zawada

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