- Test - lists.nanog.org

Re: DC fiber cut: field report
by smd＠clock.org 23 Jul '97

23 Jul '97

Vadim Antonov <avg(a)pluris.com> writes: > Yep. I would say that telcos have rather strong incentive to > keep PDH in place. It may actually be a good deal for IP people -- > you can get more capacity at a lower price, and handle redundancy > at level 3 (hey, interior re-routing is fast). You've been retired for too long when you start believing that telco price == good deal for any package at all. Fortunately, traditional PNOs are facing real competition in various parts of the world already, with all hell breaking loose in these parts Real Soon Now. > Of course, to get advantage of that practice one may want to > work closely with telco to understand their modes of failure, > and write a language protecting topology of his network > overlay. Well, maybe if you *were* the telco this *might* work a la FMS. :) In practice, though, I would want to have redundancy there in a simple way, namely through SDH or SONET. I believe this is what lots of carriers are negotiating amongst themselves (each not trusting the others to actually provide real PDH protection redundancy properly), which may be of some follow-on benefit to the retail market. Also, I think you will find plenty of people here who are so fed up with backhoe fade and broken PDH protection switching that they will pay good money for capacity provisioned over SONET rings. Ironically, facilities-wise, SONET is much cheaper than PDH support for protection-switching. > >You don't need an additional MUX, you don't need extra DAXCs, > >and you don't need to scurry around reprogramming lots of equipment > >when someone wrecks your fibre. > > It's technical staff who's doing all the scurrying. Sales people > already got their comission and are quite happy. While this is healthy cynicism about PNOs, there is the potential pain of heavy downtime penalty clauses that I hope all major ISPs and other purchasers have started getting written into their capacity contracts when they're paying anything close to normal prices. > My prediction is that redundancy of telco data services won't improve > at all until they find a way to reconcile need for redundancy and > desire to sell all the capacity they got. I don't agree. In fact, there are extant counterexamples. Unreliable service costs business, and SONET/SDH rings elminate most of the most common causes of unreliable transmissions facilities. I would hope that Worldcom's PNO side will lose alot of revenues, in the face of the recent cuts, which amply demonstrated their non-deployment of SONET rings along the fibre paths in question. They deserve it, too. Shame on them. Sean.

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Public Relations
by Rodney Joffe 23 Jul '97

23 Jul '97

People...... Forgive my intrusion, but it has become clear over the last few days (ever since the dns hiccup, and the fiber cuts) that this list is monitored by many parties who are not directly involved with Network operations issues. This includes press (so many of you have been quoted recently), government agencies, and *clients*. I would humbly and respectfully suggest at this stage that you rethink your use of this forum to engage in personal comments and attacks (as inviting as they may be :-) because these things may come back to haunt you/us. There *is* such a thing as bad publicity. And I would venture that some of the so-called 'noise' that this list has seen recently has probably captured the interest of regulators who will find a way to use our juvenile antics to our disadvantage. Besides this, you may be looking pretty foolish to those people who pay your bills, your *customers*. Please, think about this before you dash off a vitriolic response in future. If you must, why not cc it to the few who appear (from prior comment) to have an interest? And keep it off NANOG. Thanks.... Rodney Joffe Chief Technology Officer Genuity Inc., a Bechtel company http://www.genuity.net

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Re: Nameserver madness
by Karl Denninger 23 Jul '97

23 Jul '97

Ok folks, this has gone way too far. First and foremost, let me clear a few points up. 1) I never supported Eugene's antics or his piracy (nor cache poisoning) which he engaged in. 2) We updated our BIND versions on ALL our nameservers, including the two listed below, within a few hours of his games beginning, so that we would NOT distribute or load bad data. 3) We *DO* run a completely separate faction of enhanced DNS, known as eDNS. This has NOTHING to do with Mr. Kaspuereff or his antics. 4) Our nameservers were not "polluted", nor will they be in the future. We are running BIND 8.1.1 which prevents this from happening. 5) We do not, never did, and won't support the kinds of games which Eugene pulled. I disagree *vehemently* with the IAHC and iPOC, and believe their process is both improper and possibly illegal. Nonetheless, that you believe someone is breaking the law and all boundaries of ethics does *NOT* entitle you to go and do the same in "retaliation". Two wrongs do NOT make a right. 6) Your blocking of the IP addresses is *NOT* effective. Eugene's stunt was not quite as simple as you might think; he was deliberately hitting nameservers with recursive requests to force them to load his data. You would have to isolate yourself ENTIRELY to be completely free of the problem through your method. The PROPER fix is to load the newer BIND code which doesn't suffer from the weakness which was being exploited. MCSNet will take immediate and strong retaliatory action against *ANY* ISP which blockades our network in this fashion. It is one thing to block packets from our network for something which we have in fact done. It is quite another to do so based on "guilt by association" and flat-out untruths. It is my hope that you will reconsider this insanity, and drop the filters in 192.160.127.x. We are *NOT* your enemies, but we can become them if you insist on it. A prompt response is appreciated and expected. Sincerely, -- -- Karl Denninger (karl(a)MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity http://www.mcs.net/~karl | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | 99 Analog numbers, 77 ISDN, http://www.mcs.net/ Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| NOW Serving 56kbps DIGITAL on our analog lines! Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | 2 FULL DS-3 Internet links; 400Mbps B/W Internal >Following is the text of a message on the NANOG list , from Ray Davis >[ray(a)carpe.net] > >Why not just block all his garbage NSes and the fantasy NSes he's pointing >to? A quick scan of 'dig >@nyc.alternic.net . axfr' reveals the entries I've enclosed at the bottom. >The unique IPs in this list are below and we've blocked them all at our >border so none of out NSes can get polluted by them. Why not do the same? >Cheers, >Ray >===== Unique set of IPs from the alternic fantasy tld list ==== >151.189.0.25 >192.160.127.125 >192.160.127.90 >193.0.0.193 >194.106.36.1 >194.72.236.3 >194.97.200.20 >198.199.168.92 >198.80.71.68 >198.80.71.70 >199.166.24.1 >199.181.164.1 >199.181.164.2 >202.185.231.4 >202.185.254.12 >204.182.105.150 >204.199.0.2 >204.199.0.3 >204.80.125.130 >204.80.125.145 >204.94.42.1 >204.94.42.2 >204.94.42.5 >204.94.43.1 >205.184.14.8 >205.206.189.3 >205.215.60.5 >205.215.60.6 >206.117.26.219 >206.117.26.220 >206.25.132.30 >206.71.77.2 >206.71.77.4 >207.107.232.3 >207.174.25.15 >207.180.91.9 >207.32.128.1 >207.32.128.131 >207.51.48.15 >207.51.48.5 >207.51.48.8 >208.1.127.6 >208.133.32.70 >208.139.0.16 >208.139.0.26 >208.195.108.10 >208.195.108.9 >==== > >===== Output from 'dig @nyc.alternic.net . axfr' with valid TLDs edited out >== > 86400 SOA MX.ALTERNIC.NET. ROOT.MX.ALTERNIC.NET. ( > 1997072123 ; serial > 10800 ; refresh (3 hours) > 900 ; retry (15 mins) > 604800 ; expire (7 days) > 86400 ) ; minimum (1 day) > 518400 NS NYC.ALTERNIC.NET. >NYC.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 207.51.48.15 > 518400 NS IPERDOME.PER. >IPERDOME.PER. 604800 A 208.133.32.70 > 518400 NS EEK.HTTPD.COM. >EEK.HTTPD.COM. 86400 A 204.182.105.150 > 518400 NS MX.ALTERNIC.NET. >MX.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 204.94.42.1 >A. 172000 NS NS3.TRIVALLEY.COM. >I. 172000 NS NS3.TRIVALLEY.COM. >NS3.TRIVALLEY.COM 206.25.132.30 >DIR. 172000 NS SKYSCAPE.NET. >SKYSCAPE.NET. 172000 A 207.107.232.3 >DIR. 172000 NS FASTLANE.CA. >FASTLANE.CA. 172000 A 205.206.189.3 >INC. 172000 NS NS1.GLOBECOMM.NET. >NS1.GLOBECOMM.NET. 172000 A 207.51.48.5 >INC. 172000 NS NS2.GLOBECOMM.NET. >NS2.GLOBECOMM.NET. 172000 A 207.51.48.8 >PORNO. 518000 NS MX.ALTERNIC.NET. >MX.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 204.94.42.1 >PORNO. 518000 NS NYC.ALTERNIC.NET. >NYC.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 207.51.48.15 >PORNO. 518000 NS ARAGORN.ALTERNIC.NET. >ARAGORN.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 204.94.42.2 >PORNO. 518000 NS EEK.HTTPD.COM. >EEK.HTTPD.COM. 86400 A 204.182.105.150 >PORNO. 518000 NS IPERDOME.PER. >IPERDOME.PER. 604800 A 208.133.32.70 >PORNO. 518000 NS NS1.BELFAIR.NET. >NS1.BELFAIR.NET. 86400 A 204.94.43.1 >PORNO. 518000 NS CLUBLOVE.XXX. >CLUBLOVE.XXX. 386400 A 208.139.0.16 >PORNO. 518000 NS PENTHOUSELIVE.XXX. >PENTHOUSELIVE.XXX. 186400 A 208.139.0.26 >USVI. 172000 NS NS1.USVI.NET. >NS1.USVI.NET. 172000 A 204.199.0.2 >USVI. 172000 NS NS2.USVI.NET. >NS2.USVI.NET. 172000 A 204.199.0.3 >TLD. 172000 NS DNS.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. >DNS.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. 172000 A 198.199.168.92 >TLD. 172000 NS NS1.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. >NS1.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. 15228 A 207.180.91.9 >TLD. 172000 NS NS2.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. >NS2.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. 172000 A 208.195.108.9 >NS2.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. 172000 A 208.195.108.10 >FILM. 172000 NS SKYSCAPE.NET. >SKYSCAPE.NET. 172000 A 207.107.232.3 >FILM. 172000 NS FASTLANE.CA. >FASTLANE.CA. 172000 A 205.206.189.3 >DOT. 172000 NS LONEPEAK.VII.COM. >LONEPEAK.VII.COM. 172000 A 206.71.77.2 >DOT. 172000 NS OLYMPUS.VII.COM. >OLYMPUS.VII.COM. 172000 A 206.71.77.4 >GMBH. 86400 NS ns.germany.net. >ns.germany.net. 172000 A 151.189.0.25 >GMBH. 86400 NS ns.seicom.net. >ns.seicom.net. 172000 A 194.97.200.20 >NUM. 172000 NS NS1.NUM.NET. >NS1.NUM.NET. 172000 A 205.215.60.5 >NUM. 172000 NS NS2.NUM.NET. >NS2.NUM.NET. 172000 A 205.215.60.6 >888. 172000 NS NS1.VRX.NET. >NS1.VRX.NET. 172000 A 199.166.24.1 >XXX. 518000 NS MX.ALTERNIC.NET. >MX.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 204.94.42.1 >XXX. 518000 NS NYC.ALTERNIC.NET. >NYC.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 207.51.48.15 >XXX. 518000 NS ARAGORN.ALTERNIC.NET. >ARAGORN.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 204.94.42.2 >XXX. 518000 NS EEK.HTTPD.COM. >EEK.HTTPD.COM. 86400 A 204.182.105.150 >FAM. 172000 NS RS1.LANMINDS.COM. >RS1.LANMINDS.COM. 172000 A 208.1.127.6 >FAM. 172000 NS RS2.LANMINDS.NET. >RS2.LANMINDS.NET. 172000 A 207.174.25.15 >PER. 604800 NS NYC.ALTERNIC.NET. >NYC.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 207.51.48.15 >PER. 604800 NS IPERDOME.PER. >IPERDOME.PER. 604800 A 208.133.32.70 >PER. 604800 NS MX.ALTERNIC.NET. >MX.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 204.94.42.1 >FAQ. 172000 NS NS1.VRX.NET. >NS1.VRX.NET. 172000 A 199.166.24.1 >GLOBE. 172000 NS NS.WORLDSHOPNET.COM. >NS.WORLDSHOPNET.COM. 172000 A 206.117.26.220 >GLOBE. 172000 NS NS2.WORLDSHOPNET.COM. >NS2.WORLDSHOPNET.COM. 172000 A 206.117.26.219 >GAMES. 172000 NS NS.WORLDSHOPNET.COM. >NS.WORLDSHOPNET.COM. 172000 A 206.117.26.220 >GAMES. 172000 NS NS2.WORLDSHOPNET.COM. >NS2.WORLDSHOPNET.COM. 172000 A 206.117.26.219 >MALL. 172000 NS NS.UNETY.NET. >NS.UNETY.NET. 172000 A 207.32.128.1 >MALL. 172000 NS NS.UNETY.COM. >NS.UNETY.COM. 172000 A 207.32.128.131 >RADIO. 172000 NS SKYSCAPE.NET. >SKYSCAPE.NET. 172000 A 207.107.232.3 >RADIO. 172000 NS FASTLANE.CA. >FASTLANE.CA. 172000 A 205.206.189.3 >TRAVEL. 518000 NS MX.ALTERNIC.NET. >MX.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 204.94.42.1 >TRAVEL. 518000 NS NYC.ALTERNIC.NET. >NYC.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 207.51.48.15 >TRAVEL. 518000 NS ARAGORN.ALTERNIC.NET. >ARAGORN.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 204.94.42.2 >JPN. 518000 NS MX.ALTERNIC.NET. >MX.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 204.94.42.1 >JPN. 518000 NS NYC.ALTERNIC.NET. >NYC.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 207.51.48.15 >JPN. 518000 NS ARAGORN.ALTERNIC.NET. >ARAGORN.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 204.94.42.2 >ZOO. 172000 NS NS1.VRX.NET. >NS1.VRX.NET. 172000 A 199.166.24.1 >ENT. 172000 NS FASTLANE.CA. >FASTLANE.CA. 172000 A 205.206.189.3 >ENT. 172000 NS SKYSCAPE.NET. >SKYSCAPE.NET. 172000 A 207.107.232.3 >ENT. 172000 NS SKYSCAPE.ALTERNIC.NET. >ASIA. 172000 NS NS.WORLDSHOPNET.COM. >NS.WORLDSHOPNET.COM. 172000 A 206.117.26.220 >ASIA. 172000 NS NS2.WORLDSHOPNET.COM. >NS2.WORLDSHOPNET.COM. 172000 A 206.117.26.219 >NS.RIPE.NET. 172800 A 193.0.0.193 >LAW. 172000 NS NS1.GLOBECOMM.NET. >NS1.GLOBECOMM.NET. 172000 A 207.51.48.5 >LAW. 172000 NS NS2.GLOBECOMM.NET. >NS2.GLOBECOMM.NET. 172000 A 207.51.48.8 >VID. 172000 NS DNS.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. >DNS.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. 172000 A 198.199.168.92 >VID. 172000 NS NS1.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. >NS1.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. 15228 A 207.180.91.9 >VID. 172000 NS NS2.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. >NS2.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. 172000 A 208.195.108.9 >NS2.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. 172000 A 208.195.108.10 >GAY. 172000 NS ANAESTHESIA.COGNOSCENTI.ORG. >ANAESTHESIA.COGNOSCENTI.ORG. 172000 A 198.80.71.70 >GAY. 172000 NS SYNAESTHESIA.COGNOSCENTI.ORG. >SYNAESTHESIA.COGNOSCENTI.ORG. 172000 A 198.80.71.68 >GAY. 172000 NS NYC.ALTERNIC.NET. >NYC.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 207.51.48.15 >GAY. 172000 NS MX.ALTERNIC.NET. >MX.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 204.94.42.1 >HELP. 172000 NS SKYSCAPE.NET. >SKYSCAPE.NET. 172000 A 207.107.232.3 >HELP. 172000 NS FASTLANE.CA. >FASTLANE.CA. 172000 A 205.206.189.3 >FUND. 172000 NS SKYSCAPE.NET. >SKYSCAPE.NET. 172000 A 207.107.232.3 >FUND. 172000 NS FASTLANE.CA. >FASTLANE.CA. 172000 A 205.206.189.3 >URL. 172000 NS DNS.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. >DNS.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. 172000 A 198.199.168.92 >URL. 172000 NS NS1.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. >NS1.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. 15228 A 207.180.91.9 >URL. 172000 NS NS2.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. >NS2.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. 172000 A 208.195.108.9 >NS2.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. 172000 A 208.195.108.10 >HIGGS. 172000 NS NS1.HIGGS.NET. >NS1.HIGGS.NET. 172000 A 204.80.125.130 >HIGGS. 172000 NS NS2.HIGGS.NET. >NS2.HIGGS.NET. 172000 A 204.80.125.145 >ARTS. 172000 NS FASTLANE.CA. >FASTLANE.CA. 172000 A 205.206.189.3 >ARTS. 172000 NS SKYSCAPE.NET. >SKYSCAPE.NET. 172000 A 207.107.232.3 >LIVE. 518000 NS iperdome.per. >iperdome.per. 604800 A 208.133.32.70 >LIVE. 518000 NS ns1.starfire.douglas.ma.us. >ns1.starfire.douglas.ma.us. 15228 A 207.180.91.9 >GEO. 172000 NS DNS.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. >DNS.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. 172000 A 198.199.168.92 >GEO. 172000 NS NS1.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. >NS1.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. 15228 A 207.180.91.9 >GEO. 172000 NS NS2.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. >NS2.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. 172000 A 208.195.108.9 >NS2.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. 172000 A 208.195.108.10 >EUR. 172000 NS NS1.WEBSERVICES.NET. >NS1.WEBSERVICES.NET. 172000 A 194.106.36.1 >NS1.WEBSERVICES.NET. 172000 A 194.72.236.3 >EUR. 172000 NS NS2.WEBSERVICES.NET. >NS2.WEBSERVICES.NET. 172800 A 194.72.236.3 >GER. 86400 NS ns.germany.net. >ns.germany.net. 172000 A 151.189.0.25 >GER. 86400 NS ns.seicom.net. >ns.seicom.net. 172000 A 194.97.200.20 >KSA. 172000 NS NS1.ALASKAONE.COM. >NS1.ALASKAONE.COM. 172000 A 205.184.14.8 >KSA. 172000 NS NS2.ALASKAONE.COM. >NS2.ALASKAONE.COM. 172000 A 205.184.14.8 >EXP. 518000 NS MX.ALTERNIC.NET. >MX.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 204.94.42.1 >EXP. 518000 NS NYC.ALTERNIC.NET. >NYC.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 207.51.48.15 >EXP. 518000 NS ARAGORN.ALTERNIC.NET. >ARAGORN.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 204.94.42.2 >EXP. 518000 NS EEK.HTTPD.COM. >EEK.HTTPD.COM. 86400 A 204.182.105.150 >LLB. 172000 NS NS1.VRX.NET. >NS1.VRX.NET. 172000 A 199.166.24.1 >KIDS. 172000 NS NS.WORLDSHOPNET.COM. >NS.WORLDSHOPNET.COM. 172000 A 206.117.26.220 >KIDS. 172000 NS NS2.WORLDSHOPNET.COM. >NS2.WORLDSHOPNET.COM. 172000 A 206.117.26.219 >HAM. 172000 NS DNS.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. >DNS.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. 172000 A 198.199.168.92 >HAM. 172000 NS NS2.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. >NS2.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. 172000 A 208.195.108.9 >NS2.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. 172000 A 208.195.108.10 >KTI. 172000 NS DNS.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. >DNS.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. 172000 A 198.199.168.92 >KTI. 172000 NS NS1.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. >NS1.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. 15228 A 207.180.91.9 >KTI. 172000 NS NS2.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. >NS2.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. 172000 A 208.195.108.9 >NS2.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. 172000 A 208.195.108.10 >BANK. 172000 NS SKYSCAPE.NET. >SKYSCAPE.NET. 172000 A 207.107.232.3 >BANK. 172000 NS FASTLANE.CA. >FASTLANE.CA. 172000 A 205.206.189.3 >MED. 518000 NS MX.ALTERNIC.NET. >MX.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 204.94.42.1 >MED. 518000 NS NYC.ALTERNIC.NET. >NYC.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 207.51.48.15 >MED. 518000 NS EEK.HTTPD.COM. >EEK.HTTPD.COM. 86400 A 204.182.105.150 >MED. 518000 NS ARAGORN.ALTERNIC.NET. >ARAGORN.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 204.94.42.2 >PORN. 172000 NS NYC.ALTERNIC.NET. >NYC.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 207.51.48.15 >PORN. 172000 NS ARAGORN.ALTERNIC.NET. >ARAGORN.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 204.94.42.2 >PORN. 172000 NS EEK.HTTPD.COM. >EEK.HTTPD.COM. 86400 A 204.182.105.150 >PORN. 172000 NS NS1.BELFAIR.NET. >NS1.BELFAIR.NET. 86400 A 204.94.43.1 >PORN. 172000 NS IPERDOME.PER. >IPERDOME.PER. 604800 A 208.133.32.70 >PORN. 172000 NS MX.ALTERNIC.NET. >MX.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 204.94.42.1 >FREE. 172000 NS NS.ALPHAQUE.COM. >NS.ALPHAQUE.COM. 172000 A 202.185.254.12 >FREE. 172000 NS NS2.ALPHAQUE.COM. >NS2.ALPHAQUE.COM. 172000 A 202.185.231.4 >BIZ. 172000 NS CEREBUS.MCS.COM. >CEREBUS.MCS.COM. 172000 A 192.160.127.125 >BIZ. 172000 NS KITTEN.MCS.COM. >KITTEN.MCS.COM. 172000 A 192.160.127.90 >ART. 172000 NS FASTLANE.CA. >FASTLANE.CA. 172000 A 205.206.189.3 >ART. 172000 NS SKYSCAPE.NET. >SKYSCAPE.NET. 172000 A 207.107.232.3 >LNX. 518000 NS MX.ALTERNIC.NET. >MX.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 204.94.42.1 >LNX. 518000 NS NYC.ALTERNIC.NET. >NYC.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 207.51.48.15 >LNX. 518000 NS ARAGORN.ALTERNIC.NET. >ARAGORN.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 204.94.42.2 >LNX. 518000 NS EEK.HTTPD.COM. >EEK.HTTPD.COM. 86400 A 204.182.105.150 >ZONE. 172000 NS NS1.USVI.NET. >NS1.USVI.NET. 172000 A 204.199.0.2 >ZONE. 172000 NS NS2.USVI.NET. >NS2.USVI.NET. 172000 A 204.199.0.3 >SEA. 172000 NS DNS1.SEANET.COM. >DNS1.SEANET.COM. 172000 A 199.181.164.1 >SEA. 172000 NS DNS2.SEANET.COM. >DNS2.SEANET.COM. 172000 A 199.181.164.2 >LTD. 518000 NS MX.ALTERNIC.NET. >MX.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 204.94.42.1 >LTD. 518000 NS NYC.ALTERNIC.NET. >NYC.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 207.51.48.15 >LTD. 518000 NS ARAGORN.ALTERNIC.NET. >ARAGORN.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 204.94.42.2 >LTD. 518000 NS EEK.HTTPD.COM. >EEK.HTTPD.COM. 86400 A 204.182.105.150 >NETZ. 86400 NS ns.germany.net. >ns.germany.net. 172000 A 151.189.0.25 >NETZ. 86400 NS ns.seicom.net. >ns.seicom.net. 172000 A 194.97.200.20 >TOUR. 172000 NS NS1.USVI.NET. >NS1.USVI.NET. 172000 A 204.199.0.2 >TOUR. 172000 NS NS2.USVI.NET. >NS2.USVI.NET. 172000 A 204.199.0.3 >CHIRO. 518000 NS iperdome.per. >iperdome.per. 604800 A 208.133.32.70 >CHIRO. 518000 NS ns1.starfire.douglas.ma.us. >ns1.starfire.douglas.ma.us. 15228 A 207.180.91.9 >SEX. 172000 NS FASTLANE.CA. >FASTLANE.CA. 172000 A 205.206.189.3 >SEX. 172000 NS SKYSCAPE.NET. >SKYSCAPE.NET. 172000 A 207.107.232.3 >SEX. 172000 NS SKYSCAPE.ALTERNIC.NET. >CITY. 172000 NS DNS1.SEANET.COM. >DNS1.SEANET.COM. 172000 A 199.181.164.1 >CITY. 172000 NS DNS2.SEANET.COM. >DNS2.SEANET.COM. 172000 A 199.181.164.2 >NEWS. 172000 NS NS1.HIGGS.NET. >NS1.HIGGS.NET. 172000 A 204.80.125.130 >NEWS. 172000 NS NS2.HIGGS.NET. >NS2.HIGGS.NET. 172000 A 204.80.125.145 >NIC. 518000 NS MX.ALTERNIC.NET. >MX.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 204.94.42.1 >NIC. 518000 NS NYC.ALTERNIC.NET. >NYC.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 207.51.48.15 >NIC. 518000 NS ARAGORN.ALTERNIC.NET. >ARAGORN.ALTERNIC.NET. 86400 A 204.94.42.2 >NIC. 518000 NS EEK.HTTPD.COM. >EEK.HTTPD.COM. 86400 A 204.182.105.150 >NIC. 518000 NS ALTER.NIC. >ALTER.NIC. 86400 A 204.94.42.5 >ALTER.NIC. 86400 A 204.94.42.1 >NIC. 518000 NS ALTERNIC.NIC. >ALTERNIC.NIC. 86400 A 204.94.42.1 >NIC. 518000 NS WWW.ALTER.NIC. >WWW.ALTER.NIC. 86400 A 204.94.42.1 >NIC. 518000 NS WWW.ALTERNIC.NET. >WWW.ALTERNIC.NET. 186400 A 204.94.42.1 >WWW.ALTERNIC.NET. 186400 A 207.51.48.15 >NIC. 518000 NS IPERDOME.PER. >IPERDOME.PER. 604800 A 208.133.32.70 >NIC. 518000 NS WWW.PER. >WWW.PER. 604800 A 208.133.32.70 >NIC. 518000 NS MAIL.PER. >MAIL.PER. 604800 A 208.133.32.70 >CORP. 172000 NS CEREBUS.MCS.COM. >CEREBUS.MCS.COM. 172000 A 192.160.127.125 >CORP. 172000 NS KITTEN.MCS.COM. >KITTEN.MCS.COM. 172000 A 192.160.127.90 >GALLERY. 172000 NS NS1.VRX.NET. >NS1.VRX.NET. 172000 A 199.166.24.1 >DDS. 172000 NS NS1.VRX.NET. >NS1.VRX.NET. 172000 A 199.166.24.1 >SKY. 172000 NS FASTLANE.CA. >FASTLANE.CA. 172000 A 205.206.189.3 >SKY. 172000 NS SKYSCAPE.NET. >SKYSCAPE.NET. 172000 A 207.107.232.3 >PRICES. 172000 NS NS1.VRX.NET. >NS1.VRX.NET. 172000 A 199.166.24.1 >EMAIL. 172000 NS NS.WORLDSHOPNET.COM. >NS.WORLDSHOPNET.COM. 172000 A 206.117.26.220 >EMAIL. 172000 NS NS2.WORLDSHOPNET.COM. >NS2.WORLDSHOPNET.COM. 172000 A 206.117.26.219 >800. 172000 NS NS1.VRX.NET. >NS1.VRX.NET. 172000 A 199.166.24.1 >VIDEO. 172000 NS DNS.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. >DNS.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. 172000 A 198.199.168.92 >VIDEO. 172000 NS NS2.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. >NS2.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. 172000 A 208.195.108.9 >NS2.STARFIRE.DOUGLAS.MA.US. 172000 A 208.195.108.10 >============================================================================ >== >root > >-- >david(a)DELETETHIS.speco.com > >To reply, remove 'DELETETHIS' from e-mail address > >Karl Denninger <karl(a)MCS.COM> wrote in article ><5r39c8$75b$1(a)Jupiter.Mcs.Net>... >> In article <01bc96e4$c6ca5530$0101a8c0@superduper>, >> David Schutt <david(a)DELETETHIS.speco.com> wrote: >> >What in the world is going on with the nameservers? People are blocking >> >addresses that are or were associated with Alternic, and that includes >> >Cerebus and Kitten. Is this going to cause us MCS users problems? >> >-- >> >david(a)DELETETHIS.speco.com >> > >> >To reply, remove 'DELETETHIS' from e-mail address >> >> Who's blocking cerebus and kitten? >> >> I've seen no evidence of this. We had nothing to do with the Alternic on >> those machines, and Eugene's root has been off for months. >> >> -- >> -- >

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Re: Mr. Ferguson, et.al.'s problems with the list.
by jprovo＠ma.ultranet.com 23 Jul '97

23 Jul '97

[snip] >Anyone who thinks that the AUP specifically addresses any of the >threads it's been mentioned to quash in the last 14 days apparently >speaks a different version of English than I do. It all seems to land under item 6, except for the light insults (item 4). DNS politics (non-ops aspect of alternic's purposeful cache corrcuption) Registry politics (the "nsi-monopoly" stuff) socioeconomic politics (the "who's a capitalist? I am!" gribbage) [etc] While I'm at it, common courtesy says not to post private email publicly and common sense says don't hash out broken mailers on public lists. I expect you should hear *plonks* into .procmailrcs today. Cheers, Joe "I'm sorry, perhaps your horse isn't high enough?" Provo (affiliation for identification, not endorsement, etc std disclaimers) -- Joe Provo, Network Architect 800.763.8111 x3006 Network Operations Center Fax 508.229.2375 UltraNet Communications, Inc. <jprovo(a)ultra.net>

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RE: Quote from Kashpureff / Re: question about per. hack
by Tom Walton 23 Jul '97

23 Jul '97

Please, please, take this bilge off of the NANOG list. This is not the place for techno-politico-socio-net-policy discussions. Work it out in the undergraduate lounge, and get back to us with the answer. Tom -- Tom Walton twalton(a)twalton.com On Tuesday, July 22, 1997 5:27 PM, Ted Timmons [SMTP:tedder@abcompsvc.com] wrote: > At 05:07 PM 7/22/97 -0400, Christopher Masto wrote: > >Now _that's_ not right at all. I think the excuse of charging > >a fee for > >something to discourage its use is ridiculous. Where exactly > >are these > >AOLers going to get primary and secondary name service? Web > >servers? > >Mail forwarders? > > With the latest free email, web pages, etc (juno, hotmail, > geocities), it > wouldn't take too long for someone to come up with free DNS, > MXing, etc.. > > How would _you_ discourage registration? By not explaining it > very well? > That hasn't kept the idiots away from unix, Perl, etc... > -- > -=TED=- O- JAPH tedt(a)colubs.com - work > tedder(a)abcompsvc.com - home > > Link Rot: The process by which links on a web page become as > obsolete as the sites they're connected to change location or > die.

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Re: Quote from Kashpureff / Re: question about per. hack
by alan＠mindvision.com 23 Jul '97

23 Jul '97

Paul, It is my opinion that one has the power to self-moderate quite effectively. Procmail enables one to delete the ramblings of noiseful posters, while still preserving the amusement so many serious networking folk gain from nanog. 'man procmail' The joy of this internet thing we've created is that we can selectively enforce the ear-plugging. I don't think moderation is appropriate. -alan >From owner-nanog(a)merit.edu Tue Jul 22 22:45:50 1997 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 20:24:55 -0400 To: nanog(a)merit.edu From: Paul Ferguson <pferguso(a)cisco.com> Subject: Re: Quote from Kashpureff / Re: question about per. hack NANOG list maintainers: Please consider this a formal request to moderate this list. The signal/noise ratio is horrible as it is, and continuing to ignore off-topic posts, such as the thread on DNS policy, is compounding the issue. I would appreciate a response on this issue asap. Otherwise, I would fully expect to see an exodus of list participants who can no longer tolerate noise. - paul At 07:40 PM 07/22/97 -0400, Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > >Perhaps the thread has drifted off topic. But get off your goddamned >high horse and save us the snotty rejoinders, all right?

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Re: looking for status lists
by sob＠academ.com 23 Jul '97

23 Jul '97

I am working on such a list here at academ.com, but it's not ready yet. Discussions about it or outage notification in general are welcome at "outage-discuss(a)academ.com". -- Stan | Academ Consulting Services |internet: sob(a)academ.com Olan | For more info on academ, see this |uucp: {mcsun|amdahl}!academ!sob Barber | URL- http://www.academ.com/academ |Opinions expressed are only mine.

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looking for status lists
by Tim Peiffer 23 Jul '97

23 Jul '97

Can anyone point me to a list that has status and advance failure announcements for the service providers whether ISP or NSP? I would also be interested in announcements on major policy changes that affect the internet community. Please respond to me directly as I will be removing my subscription from this list. Do you run a regional, national, or international network who's traffic to and from my institution would be impacted by failures in transit? Do you operate a large commercial service that suffers an occasional outage (Internic, AOL, ...)? If so, then I would be interested in subscribing to your status announcement lists. The nanog list has had a few good pearls out there during the MAE-WEST outages, and the various WorldCom fiber cuts around the country, but recently the discussions have degraded into a less than productive list with a fairly high amount of noise. Tim Peiffer peiffer(a)nts.umn.edu Networking and Telecommunications Services University of Minnesota +1 612 626 7884 desk 2221 University Ave +1 612 625 0006 problems Suite 145 +1 612 626 1002 fax Minneapolis MN 55455, USA

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Re: Quote from Kashpureff / Re: question about per. hack
by George Herbert 22 Jul '97

22 Jul '97

>Can we please dispense with the discussion of domain name >services on the NANOG list? I would personally prefer that >this discussion be taken elsewhere. More appropriate lists (as it is no longer appropriate to network operator discussions) might include com-priv, domain-policy or newdom lists. It might return to appropriateness if further denial-of-service attacks take place and network operations are affected again, but at this time it appears drifting into familiar, often argued, and inappropriate-to-nanog territory. The policy discussions are not operational. -george william herbert gherbert(a)crl.com

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Re: Network problem update (fwd)
by Alex Rubenstein 22 Jul '97

22 Jul '97

>> >From approximately 1300-1400 EST we experienced a cisco IOS feature which >> caused significant instability in our network. >Is this the "no router bgp <insert your AS>" feature? Sounds like in inexperienced tech whining. So, where is the cheese? --- "Don't go with a spineless ISP; we have more backbone." Alex Rubenstein -- alex(a)nac.net -- KC2BUO -- www.nac.net net @ccess corporation, 201-983-0725 -- 201-983-0725

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