- Test - lists.nanog.org

Re: Spam Control Considered Harmful
by Bill Unsworth 31 Oct '97

31 Oct '97

At 23:16 30/10/97 -0000, you wrote: >>> And what will the FBI do when spammers leave the US... > >This is really a red herring -- any spam control law, even one of the >bad ones like the Murkowski bill applies to any resident of the U.S., >even if he hires someone in Moldova to send out his spam. To escape >U.S. law the spammer has to move his entire business offshore. In >practice we're unlike to see much offshore spam because the goal of >spammers is to collect money from suckers, and it's a whole lot harder >to do so if you don't have a domestic mailing address and bank >account. > >Also, as others have pointed out, there aren't a lot of other >countries with low cost unmetered Internet connections and, other than >Canada, even those are connected to the U.S. by long, thin, expensive >undersea cables whose proprietors aren't likely to enjoy having them >filled with spam and angry responses. You mean like now when spam sent to .com's outside the USA ends up hitting us! Yep it would be great if the USA isps did something about Spam cos it sure dont come from anywhere else in any quantity. :-)) > > >-- >John R. Levine, IECC, POB 640 Trumansburg NY 14886 +1 607 387 6869 >johnl(a)iecc.com, Village Trustee and Sewer Commissioner, http://iecc.com/johnl, >Finger for PGP key, f'print = 3A 5B D0 3F D9 A0 6A A4 2D AC 1E 9E A6 36 A3 47 > > U-NET Limited - Global Transit Division mailto:world@u-net.net http://world.u-net.net Tel 44 1925 484444 Fax 44 1925 484466

1 0

(forw) Re: Spam Control Considered Harmful
by Patrick Lynch 31 Oct '97

31 Oct '97

Well, according to your post, this person is probably distributing copyrighted material in his package and doesn't care about proper licensing. This is just a theory, no proof. Sometimes the easiest way to get rid of spam kings like this is by measures already in place. -----Forwarded message from Art Houle <houle(a)zeppo.acns.fsu.edu>----- So what do we do about this enterprising businessperson? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- JUST RELEASED... 27,000,000 Email Addresses! Plus 12 Bonuses... Including FREE bulk e.mail software. SNIP! -----End of forwarded message----- -- Patrick Lynch -- INDnet Network Engineer E-mail -- plynch(a)ind.net, noc(a)ind.net Phone: 317.263.8966 FAX: 317.263.8831

1 0

Kashpureff in custody.
by Marc Hurst 31 Oct '97

31 Oct '97

Eugene Kashpureff, known for his redirect of the NSI web page, was apprehended this morning in Toronto by undercover RCMP detectives. Pending a deportation hearing, he will be returned to New York to face Felony Wire Fraud charges that were sworn out against him after he had settled out of court with NSI in regard to their civil suit. Early in the week Eugene relinquished control of the Alternic to an adhoc industry group and that group will be making an announcement in the next few days. A this time I have no further information to volunteer. Sincerely Marc Hurst

1 0

Re: Spam Control Considered Harmful
by Justin W. Newton 31 Oct '97

31 Oct '97

At 02:37 PM 10/29/97 -0600, John A. Tamplin wrote: >outgoing messages, block connections to third-party MTAs, etc) in the ISP, I would like to point out, after much thought and discussion, I believe that completely blocking outgoing SMTP to be a bad idea. Here's the reasoning. I may be foo.com, a mail hosting service. My customers send and receive mail via me, but do not connect via me. I set up a system whereby only my users can send mail via me (magic elves or something, thats not important). In this instance, it makes sense to allow your users to send mail via me, if they are also my users. By blocking outgoing SMTP you are disallowing the possibility for someone to use my service, and not necessarily getting the gain that you wanted anyway. Its that nose face thing (watch what you cut off). Justin "No, I don't do mail" Newton ************************************************************** Justin W. Newton voice: +1-650-482-2840 Senior Network Architect fax: +1-650-482-2844 PRIORI NETWORKS, INC. http://www.priori.net Legislative and Policy Director, ISP/C http://www.ispc.org "The People You Know. The People You Trust." **************************************************************

2 1

RE: Operational: MAE-WEST
by Chris Fairbanks 31 Oct '97

31 Oct '97

Has anyone heard anything more from MFS/Worldcom about the problems at MAE-WEST? Chris > -----Original Message----- > From: Justin W. Newton [SMTP:justin@priori.net] > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 1997 5:47 PM > To: dlr(a)bungi.com; nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: Re: Operational: MAE-WEST > > At 11:37 AM 10/27/97 PST, Dave Rand wrote: > >Despite the (small) improvement last week, apparently achieved by > adding > >another FDDI between giga1 and gigis2, MAE-WEST loss continues. > > > >I'm currently seeing up to 40% loss between giga1 and giga2, and > about 30% > >between giga2 and giga3. > > > >I've contatacted Steve, but no word back, yet. > > Apparently DEC was making some CoolNewSoftware(TM) available today > which is > going to solve world hunger as well as packet loss between AMES and > MFS. > Anyone official care to comment? > > ************************************************************** > Justin W. Newton voice: +1-650-482-2840 > Senior Network Architect fax: +1-650-482-2844 > PRIORI NETWORKS, INC. http://www.priori.net > Legislative and Policy Director, ISP/C http://www.ispc.org > "The People You Know. The People You Trust." > **************************************************************

2 1

Final Program - 8 Maryland Workshop on High Speed Networks
by Account of Maryland Center for Telecommunications Research 31 Oct '97

31 Oct '97

FINAL PROGRAM 8th Maryland Workshop on Very High Speed Networks November 12-13, 1997 at the University Center Ballroom, UMBC Organized by Maryland Center for Telecommunications Research Department of Computer Science and Electrical Engineering University of Maryland Baltimore County Supported By Cisco Systems, NASA, CESDIS and College of Engineering/UMBC Agenda ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- DATE NAME/ORGANIZATION TOPIC ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- WEDNESDAY Keynote Speech 9:00-9:45 Joseph Berthold Optical Networking: The Next Ciena Generation 9:45-10:30 Deepinder Sidhu Emerging Network Technologies - MCTR/UMBC An Overview Cofee break 10:45-11:15 Magda El Zarki, Video over IP using RSVP and University of Pennsylvania RTP D. Reininger and D. 11:15-11:45 Raychaudhuri, Soft QoS Control in High-Speed NEC C&C Laboratories Multimedia Networking Scenarios 11:45-12:15 Raj Jain, Current Issues in ATM Traffic Ohio State University Management Lunch break Design-Assisted Routing and 1:30-2:00 Debasis Mitra Resource Management in Lucent Technologies Broadband Networking IP Switching: Technical 2:00-2:30 Tom Lyon Underpinnings and Practical IPsilon Applications George Swallow and Mike Lavender 2:30-3:00 Multi-Protocol Label Swapping: Cisco An IETF Update Cofee break 3:15-3:45 Atul Bansal Building the Intelligent ATM Fore Systems Infrastructure 3:45-4:15 Jian Li and Vab Goel IP over SONET Sprint 4:15-4:45 Terry Rolon Gigabit Ethernet Foundry Networks 4:45-5:15 <TBD> <TBD - Gigabit Ethernet> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- THURSDAY ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Models and Algorithms for 9:00-9:30 Hui Zhang, Hierarchical Resource Carnegie Mellon University Management In Integrated Services Networks 9:30-10:00 Zygmunt Haas, Routing Protocols for Highly Cornell University Reconfigurable Ad-Hoc Networks Arvind Krishna, P. Bhagwat, P. 10:00-10:30 Bhattacharya and R.O. LaMaire Proxy-Based Networking for IBM Watson Research Center Mobile Devices Cofee break 10:45-11:15 George Strawn, NSF, and Overview of the Federal Next Dick desJardins, NSA Generation Internet (NGI) Initiative The Internet2 Project of the 11:15-11:45 Javad Boroumand, ISI, and University Consortium for Guy Almes, UCAID Advanced Internet Development (UCAID), and its Relationship to NGI 11:45-12:15 John Steedman, NASA, and NASA Earth Science Applications Andy Germain, Swales Aerospace Prototyping over NGI Lunch break 1:30-2:00 Craig Labovitz, Internet Routing Instability MERIT and Network Performance Allison Mankin and Hilary 2:00-2:30 Orman Research Perspectives on ISI DARPA's CAIRN Testbed Guru Parulkar+, Fred Kuhns+, Hari Adiseshu+, John DeHart+, Bernhard Plattner*, Dan 2:30-3:00 Decasper*, Marcel Waldvogel* Scalable Integrated Services +Washington University, St. Router over Cell Switched IPv6 Louis, Missouri * Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, Zurich Cofee break 3:15-3:45 Russell Doyen Sailor II: High Bandwidth Sailor Network Networking in Maryland Global Optical Undersea 3:45-4:15 Casem Majd, Networks for Transporting AT&T Submarine Systems Heterogeneous Bitrates and Data Formats 4:15-4:45 Arun Welch and Dave Beering, Experimental Results of Running NASA Lewis TCP/IP over ATM on ACTS HDR ------------------------------------------------------------------------ NOTE: <> denotes to be confirmed. Maryland Center for Telecommunications Research Last modified: Thu Oct 29 12:59:49 EDT 1997

1 0

Final Program - 8 Maryland Workshop on High Speed Networks
by Account of Maryland Center for Telecommunications Research 31 Oct '97

31 Oct '97

FINAL PROGRAM 8th Maryland Workshop on Very High Speed Networks November 12-13, 1997 at the University Center Ballroom, UMBC Organized by Maryland Center for Telecommunications Research Department of Computer Science and Electrical Engineering University of Maryland Baltimore County Supported By Cisco Systems, NASA, CESDIS and College of Engineering/UMBC Agenda ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- DATE NAME/ORGANIZATION TOPIC ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- WEDNESDAY Keynote Speech 9:00-9:45 Joseph Berthold Optical Networking: The Next Ciena Generation 9:45-10:30 Deepinder Sidhu Emerging Network Technologies - MCTR/UMBC An Overview Cofee break 10:45-11:15 Magda El Zarki, Video over IP using RSVP and University of Pennsylvania RTP D. Reininger and D. 11:15-11:45 Raychaudhuri, Soft QoS Control in High-Speed NEC C&C Laboratories Multimedia Networking Scenarios 11:45-12:15 Raj Jain, Current Issues in ATM Traffic Ohio State University Management Lunch break Design-Assisted Routing and 1:30-2:00 Debasis Mitra Resource Management in Lucent Technologies Broadband Networking IP Switching: Technical 2:00-2:30 Tom Lyon Underpinnings and Practical IPsilon Applications George Swallow and Mike Lavender 2:30-3:00 Multi-Protocol Label Swapping: Cisco An IETF Update Cofee break 3:15-3:45 Atul Bansal Building the Intelligent ATM Fore Systems Infrastructure 3:45-4:15 Jian Li and Vab Goel IP over SONET Sprint 4:15-4:45 Terry Rolon Gigabit Ethernet Foundry Networks 4:45-5:15 <TBD> <TBD - Gigabit Ethernet> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- THURSDAY ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Models and Algorithms for 9:00-9:30 Hui Zhang, Hierarchical Resource Carnegie Mellon University Management In Integrated Services Networks 9:30-10:00 Zygmunt Haas, Routing Protocols for Highly Cornell University Reconfigurable Ad-Hoc Networks Arvind Krishna, P. Bhagwat, P. 10:00-10:30 Bhattacharya and R.O. LaMaire Proxy-Based Networking for IBM Watson Research Center Mobile Devices Cofee break 10:45-11:15 George Strawn, NSF, and Overview of the Federal Next Dick desJardins, NSA Generation Internet (NGI) Initiative The Internet2 Project of the 11:15-11:45 Javad Boroumand, ISI, and University Consortium for Guy Almes, UCAID Advanced Internet Development (UCAID), and its Relationship to NGI 11:45-12:15 John Steedman, NASA, and NASA Earth Science Applications Andy Germain, Swales Aerospace Prototyping over NGI Lunch break 1:30-2:00 Craig Labovitz, Internet Routing Instability MERIT and Network Performance Allison Mankin and Hilary 2:00-2:30 Orman Research Perspectives on ISI DARPA's CAIRN Testbed Guru Parulkar+, Fred Kuhns+, Hari Adiseshu+, John DeHart+, Bernhard Plattner*, Dan 2:30-3:00 Decasper*, Marcel Waldvogel* Scalable Integrated Services +Washington University, St. Router over Cell Switched IPv6 Louis, Missouri * Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, Zurich Cofee break 3:15-3:45 Russell Doyen Sailor II: High Bandwidth Sailor Network Networking in Maryland Global Optical Undersea 3:45-4:15 Casem Majd, Networks for Transporting AT&T Submarine Systems Heterogeneous Bitrates and Data Formats 4:15-4:45 Arun Welch and Dave Beering, Experimental Results of Running NASA Lewis TCP/IP over ATM on ACTS HDR ------------------------------------------------------------------------ NOTE: <> denotes to be confirmed. Maryland Center for Telecommunications Research Last modified: Thu Oct 29 12:59:49 EDT 1997

1 0

RE: Spammer web harvesting tool countermeasures
by Jamie Scheinblum 31 Oct '97

31 Oct '97

This would be even more incredibly cool if you could track which hosts were fed which fake addresses so you could see which hosts were really doing the spam crawling. For example: When a host like crawler.spammer.com goes to the wpoison page, feed it a unique email address@yourdomain. Of course this would require that you tie the wpoison script up to your mailer. Re: polluting the legitimate search engines as well as the bad: webcrawler.com keeps an (almost) up-to-date list of good webcrawlers (as well as some bad ones). (http://info.webcrawler.com/mak/projects/robots/robots.html) This list is only 3 or 4 months out of date, so search engines like Microsoft's yukon would probably not be in the list. You could use this to exclude which engines get the wpoison page or not. Of course this gets back to the topic of "whitelisting" the internet because of the spammers. Oh well, I'll shut up now :-) > ---------- > From: Jon Stevens[SMTP:jon@clearink.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 1997 9:58 PM > To: Jay R. Ashworth; nanog(a)merit.edu; Brian L. Brush > Subject: Re: Spammer web harvesting tool countermeasures > > "Jay R. Ashworth" <jra(a)scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> said the following at > 10/30/97 5:33 PM: > > > This is really neat; I first found it on MacInTouch: > > > >http://www.e-scrub.com/wpoison/ > > BTW, the WebStar version is at: > > <http://www.clearink.com/fun_stuff/plugins/> > > I just added a cool feature that makes it possible to easily add the > spammers to the top of the page...or even better...add a "special" > unique > email address such as wpoison-spam(a)yourdomain.com. Then you can filter > > all the email that comes through that address and add that to your > spam > databases. ;-) > > fun fun fun... > > -jon > > Jon (no h) S. Stevens > Web Engineer > j(a)clearink.com > Clear Ink and The Internet Weather Report > <http://www.clearink.com/> | <http://www.internetweather.com/> >

1 0

RE: Spam Control Considered Harmful
by Paul Peterson 31 Oct '97

31 Oct '97

Im not sure of your logic about disabling the "invalid in-addr.arpa" filtering from your sendmail. I wouldn't do it for just one of my customers and expose the rest of my customers to spammers that intentionally try to hide themselves by faking a return address and/or masking their relay server with a bogus name. I would tell that one customer to have their constituent with no reverse DNS to get there setup corrected because: a. It is a proper and complete DNS config to have reverse mapping to your ip b. It makes all data originating from it accountable (not just spam but smurf attacks, DOS attacks, port scans/Satans etc.) to the organization/person responsible for the forward and reverse zone (if they match) c. It gives other ISP's and businesses the choice to filter or not filter. If one of us makes policy to make exceptions for a customer, then they tell other customers who tell other customers who tell other potential customers that an ISP should not filter e-mail on this premise. Let the 1 in 5 people in the Internet who are either lamers who don't know how to do reverse DNS properly or too lazy to do it keep their problems as their problems and not ours. Already there are a ton of TCP wrapper applications, FTP sites, telnet sites, Netscape U.S. Encryption pages for Navigator, etc that will not allow access with improper or non-existant reverse DNS entries. Would you consider not doing gethostbynames on your entire web server because one of your web clients wanted their mis-configured customers elsewhere in the internet to have that much faster access on web pages which would also give the rest of your customers stat pages full of IP's only ?? I wouldn't...... None of my customers have complained about us filtering the misconfigured in-addr.arpa people. 80% of my customers are business who exchange a lot of mail with other businesses on the net, maybe they don't care ? I dunno. As for responsible service providers disconnecting abusers, we have disconnected around 10 of them so far. I guess wer'e luck we haven't ran into a Spamford Wallace yet huh ? Just my opinion, thanks for tolerating it. Paul Peterson, WinterLAN Inc. > -----Original Message----- > From: Jon Lewis [SMTP:jlewis@inorganic5.fdt.net] > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 1997 9:25 PM > To: Cal_Thixton(a)TPA.Net > Cc: Phil Lawlor; nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: Re: Spam Control Considered Harmful > > On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Cal Thixton - President - ThoughtPort Authority > of Chicago wrote: > > > I personally see no practical technical means of eliminating the > > practise of spamming and rather than spending time trying to dream > up > > fancier and smarter sendmail's, we should seek to simply expand the > > current mail fraud laws to cover electronic mail. Then we can > simply > > sic the FBI on these people armed with terabytes of logs and spam > emails > > And what will the FBI do when spammers leave the US and do their deed > from > other countries? Spammers won't be stopped by legislation or > technology...the average internet user can't handle the amount of > technology necessary to keep spam out of their mail. The average > sysadmin > isn't much better off. I had to disable my latest anti-spam sendmail > rule > today (denying incoming mail from sites with no or incorrect > in-addr.arpa > DNS) because a client is trying to do business with a site that has > existed for a year an a half and never setup in-addr.arpa DNS. > > Spam can only be stopped by responsible providers not allowing their > clients to abuse the net. Phil's attitude of "We provide internet > connectivity. If you don't like spam, _you_ do something about it." > has > nearly destroyed AGIS. Who's going to be next? > > BTW...Cal...obtain a linefeed. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Jon Lewis <jlewis(a)fdt.net> | Unsolicited commercial e-mail will > Network Administrator | be proof-read for $199/message. > Florida Digital Turnpike | > ______http://inorganic5.fdt.net/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key____

2 1

Re: Spammer web harvesting tool countermeasures
by Jon Stevens 31 Oct '97

31 Oct '97

"Deepak Jain" <deepak(a)jain.com> said the following at 10/30/97 6:56 PM: >And wouldn't we, in turn, see some kind of problems arise with legitimate >search engines because of this? If you downloaded it and looked at it, you would have noticed that it follows search engine guidelines by adding the appropriate <META> tag to the HTML as well as the fact, that you can also use the robots.txt file to block it. Of course this also breaks down if spammer robots actually follow the rules...but how many of those do you think that there are? ;-) -jon Jon (no h) S. Stevens Web Engineer j(a)clearink.com Clear Ink and The Internet Weather Report <http://www.clearink.com/> | <http://www.internetweather.com/>

2 1