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Re: Pinging routers for network status
by Paul Vixie 18 Dec '00

18 Dec '00

sean(a)donelan.com (Sean Donelan) writes: > Most network providers ping their routers for network status. Several > providers even track RTT to detect changes. But very few customers > connect to routers. Comparing the performance you see with HP Openview > or similar products with the performance customers see remains an > interesting question. Sometimes C&W's or AT&T's traffic web site does > show a problem. But there are also problems that don't show up in > intra-network pings. In particular IGP/BGP routing issues can result > in severe access network problems, but no problem with the internal > provider network mesh used for pings. Similarly, long or deviant ping times against a router can just indicate that it was processing a routing update when it got your ICMP_ECHO request. Therefore the RTT isn't nec'ily indicative of link latency. (SNMP is worse.) If you want to know how fast your network is, send a normal payload. Even source routing will variously have to be "processor switched" or otherwise escape the "fast path" on many modern routers. Ping and Traceroute are for when you already know you're screwed, but you're trying to prove it to other people or you're trying to draw finer distinctions. When the network isn't failing, Ping and Traceroute tell you pretty much nothing. Of course, using normal payloads to measure network health requires agents on the far side, and thus, is a more difficult design and deployment problem. (If you don't think of this as a hard problem, you're not doing it right.)

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Alter.net and Verio peering in Sacramento?
by Mathew Butler 17 Dec '00

17 Dec '00

Heya, I'm getting a huge jump in ping times from alter.net to Verio in what appears to be Sacramento: Type escape sequence to abort. Tracing the route to 198.107.19.34 1 border7.s4-2.tonbu-1.sfj.pnap.net (216.52.2.25) 0 msec 4 msec 0 msec 2 core2.ge0-1-bbnet2.sfj.pnap.net (216.52.0.66) 0 msec 0 msec 4 msec 3 POS3-0.GW2.SJC2.ALTER.NET (157.130.235.65) 4 msec 4 msec 0 msec 4 146.ATM2-0.XR2.SFO4.ALTER.NET (152.63.53.110) 12 msec 4 msec 4 msec 5 190.at-2-0-0.XR2.SAC1.ALTER.NET (152.63.50.49) 8 msec 8 msec 4 msec 6 184.ATM6-0.BR2.SAC1.ALTER.NET (152.63.52.85) 4 msec 4 msec 8 msec 7 a3-1-0-0c1.r00.scrmca01.us.bb.verio.net (129.250.9.97) 368 msec 368 msec 380 msec 8 p4-1-1-0.r01.scrmca01.us.bb.verio.net (129.250.3.18) 368 msec 368 msec 372 m sec 9 p4-1-1-0.r02.ptldor01.us.bb.verio.net (129.250.2.33) 368 msec 376 msec 372 m sec 10 ge-1-0-0.r01.ptldor01.us.ra.verio.net (129.250.31.197) 360 msec 360 msec 364 msec 11 hs-0-1-0.a01.smrwor01.us.ra.verio.net (129.250.55.122) 360 msec 356 msec 344 msec 12 199.238.235.2 344 msec 380 msec 496 msec 13 10.20.1.15 372 msec * 400 msec 14 198.107.19.34 392 msec * 400 msec Any idea what's causing that? (Or is Alter.net just not on Verio's list of preferred peers?) -Mat Butler Systems Engineer Tonbu, Inc

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multi-homing without the BGP (was RE: Packet Loss)
by Jade E. Deane 17 Dec '00

17 Dec '00

I will spare everyone my own personal experiences as of late in dealing with ARIN for a /20. How about some talk on this topic, multi-homing without the application of the BGP, a pressing concern amongst mid-level ISPs and small dot com's. Jade P.S. Mr. Jimmerson... I want a /20, and a pony. Give me a /20 and a pony, I want a pony!!!! Jade E. Deane Network Engineer helloNetwork.com Las Vegas, Nevada Office: +1 (702) 938-9267 Cell: +1 (702) 604-4759 Fax: +1 (702) 456-1471 email: jade.deane(a)helloNetwork.com urgent epage: 7026044759(a)page.nextel.com

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Touch America?
by BillT＠Mahagonny.com 16 Dec '00

16 Dec '00

Has anyone had any experience with Touch America? Was it a good touch or a bad touch? I'm thinking about moving a number of my data circuits to them, but would like to hear if anyone has had experience with them either as a customer or a peer. The company is the network arm of Montana power and light who are breaking off as a separate tier 1 provider. Thanx, -- BillT(a)Mahagonny.com | PGP KeyID#: 0xECB1EE6F -By the year 2019, one third of the worlds population will be Elvis impersonators.

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Re: Packet Loss
by Valdis.Kletnieks＠vt.edu 16 Dec '00

16 Dec '00

On Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:24:04 CST, "John R. Grant" said: > <cringe> > that would be 9600 bit per inch GCR format 9-track tape, don't you think? > </cringe> At least in the IBM world, the options for 7-track were 200/556/800 bpi with even or odd parity, and mode=normal/data converter/translator. For 9-track the options are 800 NRZI, 1600 PE, and 6250 GCR. I still have 21 9-track tapes in my office that I need to do something with, as our last system with 3420-style round tapes is being decomissioned in the next few months. -- Valdis Kletnieks Operating Systems Analyst Virginia Tech

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Cogent Communications?
by Bill Petrisko 16 Dec '00

16 Dec '00

Has anyone heard anything about Cogent Communications (www.cogentco.com) or done business with them? Their product is a dedicated 100Mbps of transit for $1000/month. Quick rundown: Metropolitan OC-48 rings, with no more than (24) 100Mbit customers on each. Nationwide OC-192 rings between the MAN rings with extensive private peering. Any feedback would be appreciated. thanks bill -- William J. Petrisko (WP5) Network Engineering bill(a)axient.com Axient Communications

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Re: Packet Loss
by Steven M. Bellovin 16 Dec '00

16 Dec '00

In message <200012151551.eBFFpKCW23482(a)black-ice.cc.vt.edu>, Valdis.Kletnieks@v t.edu writes: > >--==_Exmh_-322173952P >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >On Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:24:04 CST, "John R. Grant" said: >> <cringe> >> that would be 9600 bit per inch GCR format 9-track tape, don't you think? >> </cringe> > >At least in the IBM world, the options for 7-track were 200/556/800 bpi >with even or odd parity, and mode=normal/data converter/translator. For >9-track the options are 800 NRZI, 1600 PE, and 6250 GCR. > >I still have 21 9-track tapes in my office that I need to do something with, >as our last system with 3420-style round tapes is being decomissioned in >the next few months. Let's see... 6250 bpi * 12 in/ft * 1600 ft == 120M, if I haven't miscounted decimal places. So you can fit 5 tapes per CD-ROM, and save a lot of space. --Steve Bellovin

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RE: Packet Loss
by Mathew Butler 16 Dec '00

16 Dec '00

Well, not IBM itself, but some splinter faction... :) -Mat -----Original Message----- From: Paul Timmins [mailto:paul@timmins.net] Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 11:24 PM To: tme(a)21rst-century.com Cc: nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: Re: Packet Loss PS: I think it would be vaguely funny for April 1st if IBM ran a few ads for really really old IBM stuff, like a really really old typewriter, or a paper tape punch as an eBusiness storage solution or something like that. Taking old stuff and acting like it is top of the line, and using modern advertising and marketing technologies to do it. "With the remarkable power of the PC/XT, I can get my work done much quicker", etc ;-)

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Re: NATs *ARE* evil!
by Jeff Mcadams 16 Dec '00

16 Dec '00

Also sprach Dennis Glatting >You can't get address pool space from ARIN for anything less than a >/20, last I looked. Oh, and how about this lovely logic. We're currently efficiently (according to ARIN's guidelines) utilizing a /20, 2 /23's and a /24. We apply to ARIN for space, and what do they say they'll give us? A /20. Period. Someone care to explain this to me? We're going to give back to upstreams a /20+ that we're efficiently utilizing, and to do this we're supposed to renumber into *less* space than what we have now? And to pay for the privelage of doing so? And people wonder why providers and other corporations don't have any motivation to clean up routing tables and do the other things we're always being told we need to do in order to be good Internet neighbors. People tend to quit doing nice things if doing nice things earns them a slap in the face. -- Jeff McAdams Email: jeffm(a)iglou.com Head Network Administrator Voice: (502) 966-3848 IgLou Internet Services (800) 436-4456

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RE: Packet Loss
by Muir, Ronald 16 Dec '00

16 Dec '00

In addition to the mylar punch tape the machine was usually an octal machine. : Real Men use punched paper tape to store programs and load the boot :block, after toggling :its binary location on the system console register :) The Gods Who Walk :Among Us program in machine :code by toggling it in at the console. : :(I still have some punched paper tape somewhere. I remember feeling :impressed when I graduated to :punched cards. They didn't tend to crack if you had a string :of all bits :set to one.) : :On the other hand, I did tens of thousands of lines of code on IBM :punched cards and I never :once recall a bug caused by a chad, hanging or otherwise. : : Regards : Marshall Eubanks : : Multicast Technologies, Inc. : 10301 Democracy Lane, Suite 201 : Fairfax, Virginia 22030 : Phone : 703-293-9624 Fax : 703-293-9609 : e-mail : tme(a)on-the-i.com http://www.on-the-i.com : :

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