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Re: Port scanning legal
by Larry Sheldon 20 Dec '00

20 Dec '00

Well, let's quote it several more times--its a lot more interesting than what pings a felonies and which ones wash windows. > > Just trying to be helpful to someone that might not know that 14 line sigs > are about as bad as > vcards. 'dats all. The sig may have some purpose within creighton.edu, but > means absolutely > zilch to folks on a mailing list. Especially when your contribution consists > of a one-liner. > > As for quoted material, hah. > > HTH. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Larry Sheldon" <lsheldon(a)creighton.edu> > To: "Tim Yocum" <tim(a)yocum.org> > Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 8:57 PM > Subject: Re: Port scanning legal > > > > The message that I actually replied to was several hundred lines of HTML > code. > > > > And I submit that the sig, all but 3 lines of which have a specific > purpose, > > did not waste the bandwidth committed to the drivel about what some > redneck > > judge did. > > > > Oh, and how much of the quoted material was useful--the 14 line sig? > > > > > > > > not nearly as much as your 14-line mega.sig has. good god man, trim that > > > down to, er, four lines. =) > > > > > > kthnx. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Larry Sheldon" <lsheldon(a)creighton.edu> > > > To: <nanog(a)merit.edu> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 8:32 PM > > > Subject: RE: Port scanning legal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Y'all have gotten tedious. > > > > -- > > > > > -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- > > > > . > . > > > > - L. F. (Larry) Sheldon, > - > > > > . Unix Systems and Network Administration > . > > > > - Creighton University Computer Center-Old > - > > > > . 2500 California Plaza > . > > > > - Omaha, Nebraska, U.S.A. 68178 Two identifying > haracteristics - > > > > . lsheldon(a)creighton.edu of System Administrators: > . > > > > - 402 280-2254 (work) Infallibility, and the ability > o - > > > > . 402 681-4726 (cellular) learn from their mistakes. > . > > > > - 402 332-4622 > - > > > > . http://www.creighton.edu/~lsheldon Adapted from Stephen Pinker > . > > > > > -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- > > . . > > - L. F. (Larry) Sheldon, Jr. - > > . Unix Systems and Network Administration . > > - Creighton University Computer Center-Old Gym - > > . 2500 California Plaza . > > - Omaha, Nebraska, U.S.A. 68178 Two identifying characteristics - > > . lsheldon(a)creighton.edu of System Administrators: . > > - 402 280-2254 (work) Infallibility, and the ability to - > > . 402 681-4726 (cellular) learn from their mistakes. . > > - 402 332-4622 (residence) - > > . http://www.creighton.edu/~lsheldon Adapted from Stephen Pinker . > > -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- > > > > -- -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- . . - L. F. (Larry) Sheldon, Jr. - . Unix Systems and Network Administration . - Creighton University Computer Center-Old Gym - . 2500 California Plaza . - Omaha, Nebraska, U.S.A. 68178 Two identifying characteristics - . lsheldon(a)creighton.edu of System Administrators: . - 402 280-2254 (work) Infallibility, and the ability to - . 402 681-4726 (cellular) learn from their mistakes. . - 402 332-4622 (residence) - . http://www.creighton.edu/~lsheldon Adapted from Stephen Pinker . -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-

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RE: Port scanning legal
by Mathew Butler 20 Dec '00

20 Dec '00

Great, so you're suggesting punishing good locksmiths or windowmen. -Mat Butler -----Original Message----- From: Christian Kuhtz [mailto:ck@arch.bellsouth.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 4:35 PM To: mdevney(a)teamsphere.com Cc: nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: Re: Port scanning legal On Tue, Dec 19, 2000 at 04:26:33PM -0800, mdevney(a)teamsphere.com wrote: > I do not understand why people get so uppity about a scan. Let's be real > here, a simple portscan is about equivalent to walking along a sidewalk > and checking out the houses for open windows and doors. And about as > harmful. > > What is harmful is what sometimes comes after that. (Not always; not > usually; not even half the time I'd bet.) But the only damage a portscan > does is a few packets over your network and maybe 4M of logs (depending on > how you're logging). When writing and enforcing laws, it's important to > punish what's harmful, not what may be harmful. Or else looking at houses > as you walk down the street may be illegal. I do think there is a difference between looking at houses and windows from the street and walking up to them and rattling the door and windows to see if it they are locked or determining what model lock, door or window is used etc.

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Re: Port scanning legal
by Larry Sheldon 20 Dec '00

20 Dec '00

> And why do you have to reply personal mails back to the list? Why do you keep asking stupid questions? > > On Tue, Dec 19, 2000 at 11:53:18PM -0600, Larry Sheldon wrote: > > > > Apparently not. > > -- > Christian Kuhtz <ck(a)arch.bellsouth.net> -wk, <ck(a)gnu.org> -hm > Sr. Architect, Engineering & Architecture, BellSouth.net, Atlanta, GA, U.S. > "I speak for myself only."" > > -- > -- -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- . . - L. F. (Larry) Sheldon, Jr. - . Unix Systems and Network Administration . - Creighton University Computer Center-Old Gym - . 2500 California Plaza . - Omaha, Nebraska, U.S.A. 68178 Two identifying characteristics - . lsheldon(a)creighton.edu of System Administrators: . - 402 280-2254 (work) Infallibility, and the ability to - . 402 681-4726 (cellular) learn from their mistakes. . - 402 332-4622 (residence) - . http://www.creighton.edu/~lsheldon Adapted from Stephen Pinker . -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-

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Re: Port scanning legal
by Larry Sheldon 20 Dec '00

20 Dec '00

Apparently not. > > > How about we cut this childish crap out. > > On Tue, Dec 19, 2000 at 10:45:47PM -0600, Larry Sheldon wrote: > > > > > > > > Could you get any longer with the .sig? > > > > Not without inserting wasteed space and bandwidth. > > > > Glad you found something important to talk about here. > > > > > > > > > > -a > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 19, 2000 at 08:32:40PM -0600, Larry Sheldon wrote: > > > > > > > > Y'all have gotten tedious. > > > > -- > > > > -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- > > > > . . > > > > - L. F. (Larry) Sheldon, Jr. - > > > > . Unix Systems and Network Administration . > > > > - Creighton University Computer Center-Old Gym - > > > > . 2500 California Plaza . > > > > - Omaha, Nebraska, U.S.A. 68178 Two identifying characteristics - > > > > . lsheldon(a)creighton.edu of System Administrators: . > > > > - 402 280-2254 (work) Infallibility, and the ability to - > > > > . 402 681-4726 (cellular) learn from their mistakes. . > > > > - 402 332-4622 (residence) - > > > > . http://www.creighton.edu/~lsheldon Adapted from Stephen Pinker . > > > > -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- > > > > > > > > > -- > > -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-..-L.F.(Larry)Sheldon,Jr.-.UnixSystemsandNetworkAdministration.-CreightonUniversityComputerCenter-OldGym-.2500CaliforniaPlaza.-Omaha,Nebraska,U.S.A.68178Twoidentifyingcharacteristics-.lsheldon@creighton.eduofSystemAdministrators:.-402280-2254(work)Infallibility,andtheabilityto-.402681-4726(cellular)learnfromtheirmistakes..-402332-4622(residence)-.http://www.creighton.edu/~lsheldonAdaptedfromStephenPinker.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- > > > > > > -- > Christian Kuhtz <ck(a)arch.bellsouth.net> -wk, <ck(a)gnu.org> -hm > Sr. Architect, Engineering & Architecture, BellSouth.net, Atlanta, GA, U.S. > "I speak for myself only."" > -- -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- . . - L. F. (Larry) Sheldon, Jr. - . Unix Systems and Network Administration . - Creighton University Computer Center-Old Gym - . 2500 California Plaza . - Omaha, Nebraska, U.S.A. 68178 Two identifying characteristics - . lsheldon(a)creighton.edu of System Administrators: . - 402 280-2254 (work) Infallibility, and the ability to - . 402 681-4726 (cellular) learn from their mistakes. . - 402 332-4622 (residence) - . http://www.creighton.edu/~lsheldon Adapted from Stephen Pinker . -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-

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Re: Port scanning legal
by Larry Sheldon 20 Dec '00

20 Dec '00

> > Could you get any longer with the .sig? Not without inserting wasteed space and bandwidth. Glad you found something important to talk about here. > > -a > > On Tue, Dec 19, 2000 at 08:32:40PM -0600, Larry Sheldon wrote: > > > > Y'all have gotten tedious. > > -- > > -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- > > . . > > - L. F. (Larry) Sheldon, Jr. - > > . Unix Systems and Network Administration . > > - Creighton University Computer Center-Old Gym - > > . 2500 California Plaza . > > - Omaha, Nebraska, U.S.A. 68178 Two identifying characteristics - > > . lsheldon(a)creighton.edu of System Administrators: . > > - 402 280-2254 (work) Infallibility, and the ability to - > > . 402 681-4726 (cellular) learn from their mistakes. . > > - 402 332-4622 (residence) - > > . http://www.creighton.edu/~lsheldon Adapted from Stephen Pinker . > > -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- > -- -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-..-L.F.(Larry)Sheldon,Jr.-.UnixSystemsandNetworkAdministration.-CreightonUniversityComputerCenter-OldGym-.2500CaliforniaPlaza.-Omaha,Nebraska,U.S.A.68178Twoidentifyingcharacteristics-.lsheldon@creighton.eduofSystemAdministrators:.-402280-2254(work)Infallibility,andtheabilityto-.402681-4726(cellular)learnfromtheirmistakes..-402332-4622(residence)-.http://www.creighton.edu/~lsheldonAdaptedfromStephenPinker.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-

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Re: FDDI to FE?
by Jimmy Kyriannis 20 Dec '00

20 Dec '00

At 07:10 PM 12/19/00, David C Prall wrote: >Unfortunately the 2820 FDDI module has been End of Lifed >http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/cc/pd/si/casi/ca1900/prodlit/1148_pp.htm > >David C Prall dcp(a)dcptech.com http://dcp.dcptech.com And the last ship date was less than a week ago, no less! Jimmy

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Identifying network contacts (Re: Port scanning legal)
by Sean Donelan 20 Dec '00

20 Dec '00

On Tue, 19 December 2000, "L. Sassaman" wrote: > > Cool. Since you're obviously in the right, how about scanning some > > U.S. military networks and letting us all know what OS they are using? > > I have tcpwrappers set to trigger a portscan after certain actions... and > I have inadvertently scanned a section of the navy.mil network because of > this. (They're running raptor... what a surprise.) > > I was not approached by any men in black after this happened. I suspect > the US Military is well accustomed to having its networks scanned. They may be used to it now, but circa 1991 I had a programmer who failed to apply _htonl() in the appropriate connect() variable and spent several days trying to debug his program. The MIB at the TLA were not amused. This was back in the days when WHOIS contact information had real contacts. So it was simple for them to get a hold of me, and as soon as I did a WHOIS on the organization for me to figure out the inverse of network 1.2.3.4 was really 4.3.2.1.

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RE: Port scanning legal
by Roeland Meyer 20 Dec '00

20 Dec '00

ping! > -----Original Message----- > From: Shawn McMahon [mailto:smcmahon@eiv.com] > Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 10:58 AM > To: nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: Re: Port scanning legal > > > On Tue, Dec 19, 2000 at 11:59:23AM -0500, John Fraizer wrote: > > > > Had he likened portscanning someones network to walking > into their back > > yard with a ladder, climbing up to the second floor and > checking for open > > windows, perhaps the court would have found differently. > > I'm sure they would, but it's a deeply flawed analogy. > > How many ports must be scanned before you deem it an attack? > Is one port > enough? Five? 50? > > If you pick a number here, is that arbitrary, or do you have a valid > logical (and legally-supportable) reason for the number? > > If one port is sufficient, then the act of typing an IP address into a > web browser to see if there's a web server listening is a crime. > >

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RE: Port scanning legal
by Christian Kuhtz 20 Dec '00

20 Dec '00

> On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, Mathew Butler wrote: > > Great, so you're suggesting punishing good locksmiths or windowmen. > > Last I checked, locksmiths dont walk up and down streets checking > every lock and window on every house. Or to put it differently, when locksmiths or windowmen 'check' my property uninvited, YOU BET I will use whatever means neccessary to see them punished for invading my privacy, attempted breaking and entering or whatever. I (and many others) assume hostile intent. Don't port scan unless you have express permission. Typically locksmiths get paid, and windowmen, too. To equal port scanning with some sort of community service is a ludicrous argument. And if you want to offer free port scanning services, it can't hurt to ask before you do so if you really want to contribute something back to the net society. -- Christian Kuhtz <ck(a)arch.bellsouth.net> -wk, <ck(a)gnu.org> -hm Sr. Architect, Engineering & Architecture, BellSouth.net, Atlanta, GA, U.S. "I speak for myself only."

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Anybody from Interliant in D.C. here?
by Kalus, Michael 20 Dec '00

20 Dec '00

Hi, could please somebody from Interliant (preferably from the center in D.C.) contact me? Thanks. Michael

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