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More telecommunication equipment thefts
by Sean Donelan 23 Aug '04

23 Aug '04

Thieves recently stole expensive telecommunications equipment from 26 sites in the city, temporarily knocking out service to thousands of Comcast customers. BY ALAN SKOLNICK In a caper eerily similar to the the theft of $200,000 worth of AT&T Broadband equipment in 2000, high-tech thieves raided 26 outdoor amplifier sites in Cooper City, causing as many as 14,000 Comcast customers to lose cable service for up to two hours. [...] Thieves used the same method to steal 11 amplifiers in The Landings in Pembroke Pines two to three weeks ago, and there were prior thefts in Miramar. ''As soon as we upgrade an area and put new equipment in, it seems to get hit,'' Tamas said. [...] http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/local/states/florida/counties/bro…

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Sri Lanka Internet submarine cable cut
by Sean Donelan 23 Aug '04

23 Aug '04

In a message to it's users, SLTnet said: "We have lost connectivity to global Internet due to failure in the international submarine cable system. All measures have been taken to normalise this as early as possible." "An additional but limited capacity satellite uplink has been made to manage the information flow crisis caused by the crash, particularly when people go to their offices, banks universities etc.," SLTnet officials said.

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bandwidth test
by Bubba Parker 23 Aug '04

23 Aug '04

Recently my DS3 has been turned up to 8 megabits. How can I test to see if I can actually achieve that throughput? Online bandwidth test sites are only good for up to 5mb at the most, and my upstream doesn't have a method to test that. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. -- Bubba Parker sysadmin(a)citynetwireless.net CityNet LLC http://www.citynetinfo.com/

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Re: OT - 3 Free Gmail invites
by Joe Shen 22 Aug '04

22 Aug '04

At least three months. I use IE 6.0.2800.1106.xpsp2( Chinese Version). And, this problem does not come up on my notebook which runs the same version of WinXP & IE. Maybe they could not remake the situation Joe --- "Dre G." <enabled(a)linuxjunkies.com> wrote: > How long has it been since you have used it? > What browsers were you using? > > I have had a few issues but they have all been > resolved so Im unsure as > to were your problems stem from. > > Just curious. > > Andre > > On Thu, 2004-08-19 at 02:28, Joe Shen wrote: > > Gmail seems to be in Beta stage. I got a Gmail > account > > months ago, but I do not use it by now. > > The reason is it does not solve two bugs I met. > > The first is, after logining into gmail it will > prompt > > with "Ooops, the system was unable to perform your > > operation. Please try again in a few seconds" if I > > click "Compose Mail". Sometime this message comes > up > > after I FINALLY succeed with "Compose MAIL" and > click > > "Send". > > > > Another thing I met is, when trying to log in. > After > > typing in username/password, it shows "Gmail is > not > > available by now", and I have to reload one or two > > times to log in. > > > > This is really contrast to what Yahoo! could > provide. > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > --- Brett <bretton(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > WOW! Overwhelming response. Haven't sent them > all > > > out yet, but all > > > accounted for. > > > > > > Brett > > > > > > On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 13:51:43 -0700, Brett > > > <bretton(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > I've got a few to give out as well. Email me > > > off-list and if I have > > > > any left, I'll send an invite. > > > > > > > > Brett > > > > > > > > On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:43:30 -0400, Joshua > Brady > > > <somitho(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > All gone > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Download the latest ringtones, games, and more! > > http://sg.mobile.yahoo.com > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Download the latest ringtones, games, and more! http://sg.mobile.yahoo.com

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OT - 3 Free Gmail invites
by Joshua Brady 21 Aug '04

21 Aug '04

I've got 2 Gmail invites up for grabs for the first 2 to email me offlist. Somitho(a)gmail.com Josh Brady

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Has postini been taken over?
by Hank Nussbacher 20 Aug '04

20 Aug '04

Lately, I am getting more and more spam coming via postini.com. See below: >Received: from source ([206.190.38.111]) by exprod5mx128.postini.com >([12.158.34.245]) with SMTP; Fri, 30 Jul 2004 04:40:47 CDT >Received: from psmtp.com (exprod5mx30.postini.com [12.158.34.185]) > by psmtp.preferred.com (8.12.9-20030924/8.12.9) with SMTP id > i6VB468i000751 >Received: from source ([192.116.80.38]) by exprod5mx32.postini.com >([12.158.34.245]) with SMTP;Tue, 17 Aug 2004 19:45:45 PDT >Received: from psmtp.com (exprod6mx122.postini.com [12.158.36.114]) > by mta-3.gci.net > (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with SMTP id > <0I2F00HE8XHSVF(a)mta-3.gci.net> for x; Sat, > 14 Aug 2004 06:27:31 -0800 (AKDT) >Received: from source ([80.253.126.147]) by exprod5mx115.postini.com >([12.158.34.245]) with SMTP; > Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:08:37 CDT Does anyone know whether Postini has been bought out by Alan Ralsky perhaps? :-) Thanks, Hank

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Re: BANANOG [Re: Specialty Technical Publishers]
by Joshua Brady 20 Aug '04

20 Aug '04

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 21:04:57 +0100, Per Gregers Bilse <pgb(a)networksignature.com> wrote: > On Aug 20, 1:07pm, Joshua Brady <somitho(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > been a core part of the network? I am all for Matt talking about the > > litigation of this case, its a quite common thing now in the wonderful > > world of the internet, so does that now not fall under rules? > > The point is that NANOG is supposed to focus on network operational issues > (and by implication also issues of architecture and engineering); issues > of a tangential or personal interest water down the contents, whether or > not they are important for the Internet and/or your business. Including > cashflow, litigation, world peace, and falling asteroids. Sure understood there, however...NANOG is a discussion list which I believe needs to focus on more than just the strict network operational issues. (a user on AS12345 is announcing my IP's can someone purdy please go smack him and make him stop), such as we do at the NANOG confrences, discuss everything in and around the network operations field, which deals with cashflow, litigation, world peace if your an ISP in say iraq or afghanistan right now, and falling asteroids headed to your satellites or your datacenters or god forbid your CEO's Porsche. > > The reason for trying to maintain focus is simple: few people deeply > involved in core Internet issues have the time to sift through heaps of > "interesting" discussion that has no relevance for their work. In the > end, everybody who might make a difference will have written NANOG off > and simply not take part. This has to a large extent already happened, > but it would be good not to make the situation worse. Then I guess the solution is simple...don't sift through it. Everything eventually evolves from the original reason it was created and we can't just sit around and not conform to that. > There used to be a mailing list called com-priv, the original purpose > being discussion about commercialisation and privatisation of the > Internet. Maybe NANOG/Merit as a group/organisation should revive > it, and discuss non-technical matters on that? Business Associated > NANOG (BANANOG) discussion would be much happier on a separate list. > Could even sit on a Merit server I guess, it would simply shift traffic > from one list to another. I suppose, but then we get the complaints of "Grrr *grumble* I have to sign up for another mailing list just to discuss issues which can easily be discussed in one location?" but if you can get Merit to create a BANANOG I guess we can see how it goes. > In the meantime, a tried and tested relevance test for NANOG is very > simple: How do I configure my router for that? Step 1: Kick the router out of the rack. Step 2: Bring in big lumberjacks to beat the router until it conforms, if it conforms skip to step 5, if not go on to step 3. Step 3: Hire someone who didn't have to ask that question. Step 4: Get a roll of duct tape and gently slide the router back into place. Step 5: Plug router in and enjoy! > Best, > > -- Per > > -- Joshua Brady

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Savvis/C&W
by Micah McNelly 20 Aug '04

20 Aug '04

Can someone from the savvis / c&w IP routing contact me offlist quickly? Thanks, /micah

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Weekly Routing Table Report
by Routing Table Analysis 20 Aug '04

20 Aug '04

This is an automated weekly mailing describing the state of the Internet Routing Table as seen from APNIC's router in Japan. Daily listings are sent to bgp-stats(a)lists.apnic.net If you have any comments please contact Philip Smith <pfs(a)cisco.com>. Routing Table Report 04:00 +10GMT Sat 21 Aug, 2004 Analysis Summary ---------------- BGP routing table entries examined: 143916 Prefixes after maximum aggregation: 85856 Unique aggregates announced to Internet: 69426 Total ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 17828 Origin-only ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 15446 Origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 7268 Transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 2382 Transit-only ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 76 Average AS path length visible in the Internet Routing Table: 4.8 Max AS path length visible: 21 Prefixes from unregistered ASNs in the Routing Table: 6 Special use prefixes present in the Routing Table: 0 Prefixes being announced from unallocated address space: 16 Number of addresses announced to Internet: 1330637096 Equivalent to 79 /8s, 79 /16s and 233 /24s Percentage of available address space announced: 35.9 Percentage of allocated address space announced: 58.0 Percentage of available address space allocated: 61.9 Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 65206 APNIC Region Analysis Summary ----------------------------- Prefixes being announced by APNIC Region ASes: 27808 Total APNIC prefixes after maximum aggregation: 14051 Prefixes being announced from the APNIC address blocks: 26026 Unique aggregates announced from the APNIC address blocks: 14151 APNIC Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 2105 APNIC Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 619 APNIC Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 332 Average APNIC Region AS path length visible: 4.9 Max APNIC Region AS path length visible: 16 Number of APNIC addresses announced to Internet: 157720064 Equivalent to 9 /8s, 102 /16s and 158 /24s Percentage of available APNIC address space announced: 72.0 APNIC AS Blocks 4608-4864, 7467-7722, 9216-10239, 17408-18431 23552-24575 APNIC Address Blocks 58/7, 60/7, 202/7, 210/7, 218/7, 220/7 and 222/8 ARIN Region Analysis Summary ---------------------------- Prefixes being announced by ARIN Region ASes: 82039 Total ARIN prefixes after maximum aggregation: 50063 Prefixes being announced from the ARIN address blocks: 63556 Unique aggregates announced from the ARIN address blocks: 22372 ARIN Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 9420 ARIN Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 3400 ARIN Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 924 Average ARIN Region AS path length visible: 4.5 Max ARIN Region AS path length visible: 19 Number of ARIN addresses announced to Internet: 230151968 Equivalent to 13 /8s, 183 /16s and 215 /24s Percentage of available ARIN address space announced: 68.6 ARIN AS Blocks 1-1876, 1902-2042, 2044-2046, 2048-2106 2138-2584, 2615-2772, 2823-2829, 2880-3153 3354-4607, 4865-5119, 5632-6655, 6912-7466 7723-8191, 10240-12287, 13312-15359, 16384-17407 18432-20479, 21504-23551, 25600-26591, 26624-27647,29695-30719, 31744-33791 ARIN Address Blocks 24/8, 63/8, 64/6, 68/7, 70/7, 72/8, 198/7, 204/6, 208/7 and 216/8 RIPE Region Analysis Summary ---------------------------- Prefixes being announced by RIPE Region ASes: 26621 Total RIPE prefixes after maximum aggregation: 18818 Prefixes being announced from the RIPE address blocks: 23369 Unique aggregates announced from the RIPE address blocks: 15593 RIPE Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 5752 RIPE Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 3112 RIPE Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 1006 Average RIPE Region AS path length visible: 5.4 Max RIPE Region AS path length visible: 21 Number of RIPE addresses announced to Internet: 169553728 Equivalent to 10 /8s, 27 /16s and 47 /24s Percentage of available RIPE address space announced: 59.4 RIPE AS Blocks 1877-1901, 2043, 2047, 2107-2136, 2585-2614 2773-2822, 2830-2879, 3154-3353, 5377-5631 6656-6911, 8192-9215, 12288-13311, 15360-16383 20480-21503, 24576-25599, 28672-29695 30720-31743, 33792-34815 RIPE Address Blocks 62/8, 80/5, 88/8, 188/8, 193/8, 194/7, 212/7 and 217/8 LACNIC Region Analysis Summary ------------------------------ Prefixes being announced by LACNIC Region ASes: 6278 Total LACNIC prefixes after maximum aggregation: 2247 Prefixes being announced from the LACNIC address blocks: 6029 Unique aggregates announced from the LACNIC address blocks: 3540 LACNIC Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 387 LACNIC Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 115 LACNIC Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 76 Average LACNIC Region AS path length visible: 5.2 Max LACNIC Region AS path length visible: 15 Number of LACNIC addresses announced to Internet: 15724544 Equivalent to 0 /8s, 239 /16s and 240 /24s Percentage of available LACNIC address space announced: 46.9 LACNIC AS Blocks 26592-26623, 27648-28671 LACNIC Address Blocks 200/7 Emerging AfriNIC Region Analysis Summary ---------------------------------------- Prefixes being announced by AfriNIC Region ASes: 1164 Total AfriNIC prefixes after maximum aggregation: 677 Prefixes being announced from the AfriNIC address blocks: 802 Unique aggregates announced from the AfriNIC address blocks: 655 AfriNIC Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 89 AfriNIC Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 22 AfriNIC Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 13 Average AfriNIC Region AS path length visible: 4.9 Max AfriNIC Region AS path length visible: 16 Number of AfriNIC addresses announced to Internet: 1992192 Equivalent to 0 /8s, 30 /16s and 102 /24s Percentage of available AfriNIC address space announced: 11.9 AfriNIC AS Blocks <none> AfriNIC Address Blocks 196/8 APNIC Region per AS prefix count summary ---------------------------------------- ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 4134 830 4161 155 Data Communications Bureau 1221 811 1184 585 Telstra Pty Ltd 4766 559 2897 265 Korea Internet Exchange for " 9583 525 40 105 Satyam Infoway Ltd., 4755 364 133 48 Videsh Sanchar Nigam Ltd. Aut 9929 361 161 33 China Netcom Corp. 9443 355 70 81 Primus Telecommunications 2907 353 1840 327 SINET Japan 17676 346 5148 38 XTAGE CORPORATION 17557 327 23 164 Pakistan Telecom 703 317 342 244 UUNET 2764 289 274 236 connect.com.au pty ltd 7474 264 268 201 Optus Communications Pty Ltd 9942 236 73 129 COMindico Australia 4802 230 25 139 Wantree Development 9800 225 369 63 CHINA UNICOM 9498 220 49 49 BHARTI BT INTERNET LTD. 17633 214 56 6 ASN for Shandong Provincial N 4837 202 2246 109 chinanet IDC center beijing n 10036 202 18 183 C&M Communication Co. Ltd. ARIN Region per AS prefix count summary --------------------------------------- ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 7018 1398 6787 966 AT&T WorldNet Services 701 1278 8423 921 UUNET Technologies, Inc. 1239 928 2855 619 Sprint 6347 801 373 120 SAVVIS Communications Corpora 4323 781 632 219 Time Warner Telecom 18566 741 193 8 Covad Communications 6197 717 361 339 BellSouth Network Solutions, 209 614 3430 497 Qwest 721 601 20805 275 DLA Systems Automation Center 20115 576 384 298 Charter Communications 3356 564 10935 434 Level 3 Communications, LLC 852 510 1142 398 Telus Advanced Communications 7843 507 690 119 Adelphia Corp. 6198 454 398 206 BellSouth Network Solutions, 7132 432 8029 374 SBC Internet Services 705 429 163 271 UUNET Technologies, Inc. 2386 405 531 229 AT&T Data Communications Serv 22773 405 960 18 Cox Communications, Inc. Atla 4355 388 323 99 EarthLink, Inc. 376 385 363 113 Reseau Interordinateurs Scien RIPE Region per AS prefix count summary --------------------------------------- ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 702 651 2020 542 UUNET - Commercial IP service 3320 300 2469 237 Deutsche Telekom AG 3301 281 1098 271 TeliaNet Sweden 8220 275 445 262 COLT Internet - International 680 244 2025 239 DFN-IP service G-WiN 13083 217 51 8 Mannesmann Datenverarbeitung 3246 216 483 213 Song Networks 1257 214 747 183 SWIPnet Swedish IP Network 8708 203 113 181 Romania Data Systems S.A. 5515 199 842 145 Sonera Solution Autonomous Sy 3215 183 892 77 France Telecom Transpac 786 177 1794 177 The JANET IP Service 25186 164 155 112 France Telecom Transpac's Tra 5400 158 274 129 BT Ignite European Backbone 6746 153 29 130 Dynamic Network Technologies, 719 150 288 102 LANLINK autonomous system 3269 143 1195 65 TELECOM ITALIA 8866 131 15 15 Bulgarian Telecommunication C 3303 130 609 129 Swisscom Ltd 12302 127 18 33 MobiFon S.A. LACNIC Region per AS prefix count summary ----------------------------------------- ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 11172 358 100 54 Servicios Alestra S.A de C.V 6140 334 137 64 ImpSat 8151 286 392 132 UniNet S.A. de C.V. 16814 206 13 7 NSS, S.A. 6147 187 86 19 Telefonica Del Peru 11664 154 11 24 Keytech SA 6505 137 90 94 Global One Communicaoes Ltda 6503 129 203 87 AVANTEL, S.A. 7303 121 55 19 Telecom Argentina Stet-France 11992 89 9 30 Integrated Systems 14420 82 6 32 ANDINATEL S.A. 6535 81 5 16 Chilesat Servicios Empresari 11556 81 41 3 Cable-Wireless Panama 11311 79 7 19 Sinectis S.A. 5639 76 8 8 Telecommunications Services o 15311 76 21 36 Telefonica Empresas 4270 70 18 9 Red de Interconexion Universi 14117 69 5 4 Telefonica del Sur S.A. 11340 68 21 37 Red Universitaria Nacional 10292 67 6 26 TELECOMMUNICATIONS OF JAMAICA AfriNIC Region per AS prefix count summary ------------------------------------------ ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 3741 253 632 220 The Internet Solution 5536 113 16 4 Internet Egypt Network 2018 94 297 92 Tertiary Education Network 2905 92 276 81 The Internetworking Company o 14988 44 16 1 Botswana Telecommunications C 20928 44 16 1 Noor Advanced Technologies AS 24835 33 18 6 RAYA Telecom - Egypt 6713 27 42 10 Itissalat Al-MAGHRIB 8524 26 2 4 AUCEGYPT Autonomous System 5713 25 125 23 Telkom SA Ltd 16637 24 10 19 Johnnic e-Ventures 12455 20 4 2 Jambonet Autonomous system 10798 18 1 12 Standard Bank of South Africa 12258 18 3 12 Vodacom Internet Company 8346 15 7 14 SONATEL-AS Autonomous System 15706 15 4 2 Sudatel Internet Exchange Aut 21491 14 1 3 UTL On-line is RF broadband I 17148 13 1 7 First National Bank 2609 12 26 4 Tunisia BackBone AS 11845 12 9 11 Data Pro Business Online Global Per AS Maximum Aggr summary ---------------------------------- ASN No of nets Net Savings Description 18566 741 733 Covad Communications 6347 801 681 SAVVIS Communications Corpora 4134 830 675 Data Communications Bureau 4323 781 562 Time Warner Telecom 9583 525 420 Satyam Infoway Ltd., 7843 507 388 Adelphia Corp. 22773 405 387 Cox Communications, Inc. Atla 6197 717 378 BellSouth Network Solutions, 5668 383 365 Century Telephone 701 1278 357 UUNET Technologies, Inc. 27364 350 331 Armstrong Cable Services 9929 361 328 China Netcom Corp. 721 601 326 DLA Systems Automation Center 22909 358 323 Comcast Cable Corporation 6467 350 321 E.Spire Communications, Inc. 4755 364 316 Videsh Sanchar Nigam Ltd. Aut 1239 928 309 Sprint 17676 346 308 XTAGE CORPORATION 11172 358 304 Servicios Alestra S.A de C.V 4766 559 294 Korea Internet Exchange for " List of Unregistered ASNs (Global) ---------------------------------- Bad AS Designation Network Transit AS Description 65217 PRIVATE 192.102.236.0/24 217 University of Minnes 1877 UNALLOCATED 192.108.199.0/24 1876 Southern Methodist U 64584 PRIVATE 219.146.176.0/22 17633 ASN for Shandong Pro 64584 PRIVATE 219.146.180.0/22 17633 ASN for Shandong Pro 64584 PRIVATE 222.174.96.0/20 17633 ASN for Shandong Pro 64584 PRIVATE 222.174.112.0/20 17633 ASN for Shandong Pro Advertised Unallocated Addresses -------------------------------- Network Origin AS Description 132.0.0.0/10 721 DLA Systems Automation Center 137.0.0.0/13 721 DLA Systems Automation Center 158.0.0.0/13 721 DLA Systems Automation Center 192.43.230.0/24 4738 South Australian Academic Res 192.44.0.0/19 702 UUNET - Commercial IP service 192.70.164.0/24 25689 National Research Council of 192.83.16.0/20 5515 Sonera Solution Autonomous Sy 192.83.32.0/19 5515 Sonera Solution Autonomous Sy 192.83.96.0/22 5515 Sonera Solution Autonomous Sy 192.83.100.0/24 5515 Sonera Solution Autonomous Sy 192.84.205.0/24 719 LANLINK autonomous system 192.119.135.0/24 270 NASA 192.135.50.0/24 7018 AT&T WorldNet Services 192.136.79.0/24 719 LANLINK autonomous system 192.172.0.0/19 721 DLA Systems Automation Center 192.172.11.0/24 721 DLA Systems Automation Center Number of prefixes announced per prefix length (Global) ------------------------------------------------------- /1:0 /2:0 /3:0 /4:0 /5:0 /6:0 /7:0 /8:19 /9:3 /10:6 /11:14 /12:63 /13:134 /14:304 /15:542 /16:7973 /17:2166 /18:3771 /19:9698 /20:10194 /21:7508 /22:10415 /23:12050 /24:78385 /25:236 /26:188 /27:100 /28:36 /29:9 /30:75 /31:0 /32:27 Advertised prefixes smaller than registry allocations ----------------------------------------------------- ASN No of nets Total ann. Description 18566 724 741 Covad Communications 6347 604 801 SAVVIS Communications Corpora 6197 569 717 BellSouth Network Solutions, 7018 538 1398 AT&T WorldNet Services 702 405 651 UUNET - Commercial IP service 4766 367 559 Korea Internet Exchange for " 9583 367 525 Satyam Infoway Ltd., 701 364 1278 UUNET Technologies, Inc. 1239 364 928 Sprint 27364 336 350 Armstrong Cable Services 5668 335 383 Century Telephone 6198 334 454 BellSouth Network Solutions, 20115 303 576 Charter Communications 9929 289 361 China Netcom Corp. 6517 264 291 Yipes Communications, Inc. 6467 259 350 E.Spire Communications, Inc. 13609 257 300 Choice One Communications Inc 3320 247 300 Deutsche Telekom AG 25844 245 245 Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher 14824 242 265 NewSouth Communications Corp. Number of /24s announced per /8 block (Global) ---------------------------------------------- 4:4 8:2 12:851 13:1 15:5 16:2 17:3 20:9 24:717 32:66 33:2 38:79 40:54 44:4 55:1 56:3 57:16 60:6 61:458 62:511 63:1850 64:2240 65:2042 66:2446 67:359 68:545 69:695 70:65 80:539 81:355 82:196 83:122 84:33 128:95 129:174 130:84 131:178 132:23 134:185 135:17 136:182 137:49 138:169 139:37 140:160 141:106 142:119 143:58 144:100 145:42 146:288 147:93 148:419 149:111 150:88 151:70 152:159 153:68 154:2 155:130 156:58 157:71 158:142 159:149 160:54 161:70 162:390 163:79 164:179 165:161 166:115 167:221 168:282 169:114 170:276 171:9 192:5567 193:2852 194:2079 195:1436 196:561 198:3661 199:3248 200:3668 201:9 202:4818 203:5666 204:3147 205:2081 206:2300 207:2483 208:2152 209:3009 210:1451 211:588 212:990 213:1186 214:94 215:30 216:3771 217:989 218:182 219:116 220:246 221:33 222:115 End of report

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Re: "scanning" e-mail [WAS: 3 Free Gmail invites]
by Robert Bonomi 20 Aug '04

20 Aug '04

> From owner-nanog(a)merit.edu Fri Aug 20 10:07:59 2004 > Cc: Patrick W Gilmore <patrick(a)ianai.net> > From: Patrick W Gilmore <patrick(a)ianai.net> > Subject: Re: "scanning" e-mail [WAS: 3 Free Gmail invites] > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:34:31 -0400 > To: nanog(a)merit.edu > > > On Aug 20, 2004, at 9:25 AM, Stephen J. Wilcox wrote: > > > i got told otherwise, but again this hasnt been tested in a court by > > me. i > > forget the exact detail in the conversation but it was comparing the > > disclaimer > > to what you get in regular mail.. so things like confidentiality, > > opening an > > attachment meaning you agree to things are allegedly okay. > > Maybe the UK is different than the US. But if I get something > addressed to me in the mail (dunno about it if it was addressed to > someone else and accidentally delivered), it is MINE. Period. If I > did not order it, too damned bad, I get to keep it, it's a gift. U.S. law is similar, for _unsolicited_ materials. 'Mis-delivered' materials, must be returned to the Postal Service, -unopened-, for proper delivery. (It is a _crime_ to open such mail). However, even if you do own the 'thing' that was mailed to you, you still must respect the IP rights of the copyright owner of any such material in that 'thing'. Ownership of the 'physical artifact' does not include copyright control. > Bringing this back on topic, IFF that can be extended to e-mail (and my > understanding is that it can), the disclaimer is worthless - at least > the part about having to delete it. Yup. Totally worthless. It is the realm of 'contract law', which, among other things requires a 'meeting of the minds' before any contract can be formed. > There is some question about > whether I can post it publicly (as you saw earlier), and I don't have > the motivation to test it in court, but I certainly feel perfectly > comfortable reading the contents of the e-mail and any attachments, and > doing whatever I like with the information, baring limitations set by > any previous agreements (e.g. NDAs). Copyright is retained by the sender. Aside from copyright issues, you are free to do whatever you like with the message, any 'disclaimers' not withstanding. > Would anyone care to correct me on this? IANAL, and don't even play > one on TV. :-) Not much that needs correcting. <grin> > > as you say tho this cannot be extended to some things such as by > > reading this > > you owe me $1m etc but the reasonable and logical bits are allegedly > > enforceable > > to some degree Kelvin or Rankine? <grin> The ones that say 'if you are not the person to whom this message was addressed' may have a chance of being upheld. How good that chance is is *very* dependant on circumstances. The ones that say 'if you are not the persom for whom this message was _intended_' have no chance of prevaling on _that_ basis.

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