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The Cidr Report
by cidr-report＠potaroo.net 19 Nov '04

19 Nov '04

This report has been generated at Fri Nov 19 21:44:32 2004 AEST. The report analyses the BGP Routing Table of an AS4637 (Reach) router and generates a report on aggregation potential within the table. Check http://www.cidr-report.org/as4637 for a current version of this report. Recent Table History Date Prefixes CIDR Agg 12-11-04 148794 102671 13-11-04 148901 102843 14-11-04 148925 102888 15-11-04 149015 102580 16-11-04 148788 102552 17-11-04 148992 102726 18-11-04 149033 102710 19-11-04 149080 102770 AS Summary 18398 Number of ASes in routing system 7506 Number of ASes announcing only one prefix 1409 Largest number of prefixes announced by an AS AS7018 : ATTW AT&T WorldNet Services 86852608 Largest address span announced by an AS (/32s) AS721 : DNIC DoD Network Information Center Aggregation Summary The algorithm used in this report proposes aggregation only when there is a precise match using the AS path, so as to preserve traffic transit policies. Aggregation is also proposed across non-advertised address space ('holes'). --- 19Nov04 --- ASnum NetsNow NetsAggr NetGain % Gain Description Table 149156 102816 46340 31.1% All ASes AS18566 754 6 748 99.2% CVAD Covad Communications AS4134 829 179 650 78.4% CHINANET-BACKBONE No.31,Jin-rong Street AS4323 803 228 575 71.6% TWTC Time Warner Telecom AS7018 1409 986 423 30.0% ATTW AT&T WorldNet Services AS27364 450 45 405 90.0% ARMC Armstrong Cable Services AS22773 402 17 385 95.8% CXA Cox Communications Inc. AS6197 814 431 383 47.1% BNS-14 BellSouth Network Solutions, Inc AS7843 479 98 381 79.5% ADELPH-13 Adelphia Corp. AS701 1225 880 345 28.2% UU UUNET Technologies, Inc. AS22909 414 71 343 82.9% CMCS Comcast Cable Communications, Inc. AS6478 434 116 318 73.3% ATTW AT&T WorldNet Services AS1239 934 623 311 33.3% SPRN Sprint AS9929 335 33 302 90.1% CNCNET-CN China Netcom Corp. AS17676 374 74 300 80.2% JPNIC-JP-ASN-BLOCK Japan Network Information Center AS4355 384 99 285 74.2% ERSD EARTHLINK, INC AS4766 529 266 263 49.7% KIXS-AS-KR Korea Telecom AS14654 261 6 255 97.7% WAYPOR-3 Wayport AS9443 362 113 249 68.8% INTERNETPRIMUS-AS-AP Primus Telecommunications AS21502 246 3 243 98.8% ASN-NUMERICABLE NUMERICABLE is a cabled network in France, AS6140 371 130 241 65.0% IMPSA ImpSat AS15557 371 134 237 63.9% LDCOMNET LDCOM NETWORKS AS721 1021 790 231 22.6% DNIC DoD Network Information Center AS2386 849 620 229 27.0% ADCS-1 AT&T Data Communications Services AS25844 244 17 227 93.0% SASMFL-2 Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP AS1221 795 570 225 28.3% ASN-TELSTRA Telstra Pty Ltd AS6198 435 221 214 49.2% BNS-14 BellSouth Network Solutions, Inc AS4814 210 6 204 97.1% CHINA169-BBN CNCGROUP IP network¡ªChina169 Beijing Broadband Network AS9583 563 364 199 35.3% SIFY-AS-IN Sify Limited AS5668 417 219 198 47.5% CIH-12 CenturyTel Internet Holdings, Inc. AS15270 230 38 192 83.5% PDP-14 PaeTec.net -a division of PaeTecCommunications, Inc. Total 16944 7383 9561 56.4% Top 30 total Possible Bogus Routes 24.138.80.0/20 AS11260 AHSICHCL Andara High Speed Internet c/o Halifax Cable Ltd. 24.246.0.0/17 AS7018 ATTW AT&T WorldNet Services 24.246.38.0/24 AS25994 NPGCAB NPG Cable, INC 24.246.128.0/18 AS7018 ATTW AT&T WorldNet Services 59.158.0.0/15 AS17506 JPNIC-JP-ASN-BLOCK Japan Network Information Center 64.46.27.0/24 AS8674 NETNOD-IX Netnod Internet Exchange Sverige AB 64.57.160.0/19 AS3561 CWU Cable & Wireless USA 64.92.128.0/19 AS3561 CWU Cable & Wireless USA 64.127.0.0/18 AS7018 ATTW AT&T WorldNet Services 64.209.192.0/18 AS3561 CWU Cable & Wireless USA 69.26.32.0/19 AS17307 VIRTEL-15 Virtela Communications 132.0.0.0/10 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 137.0.0.0/13 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 138.136.0.0/13 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 158.0.0.0/13 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 192.30.93.0/24 AS17757 HPAUS-AP HP Australia 192.30.94.0/24 AS17757 HPAUS-AP HP Australia 192.30.127.0/24 AS719 ELISA-AS Elisa Oyj 192.40.105.0/24 AS5515 SONERA-GLOBAL-IP Sonera Solution Autonomous System 192.44.0.0/19 AS702 AS702 MCI EMEA - Commercial IP service provider in Europe 192.70.164.0/24 AS25689 NRCC-2 National Research Council of Canada 192.81.182.0/24 AS719 ELISA-AS Elisa Oyj 192.81.183.0/24 AS719 ELISA-AS Elisa Oyj 192.81.184.0/24 AS719 ELISA-AS Elisa Oyj 192.119.135.0/24 AS270 NASA National Aeronautics and Space Administration 192.124.252.0/22 AS680 DFN-IP service G-WiN 192.133.6.0/24 AS4004 GLOBALONE-EQUANT-UK Equant UK & Greece Autonomous System 192.135.50.0/24 AS7018 ATTW AT&T WorldNet Services 192.153.144.0/21 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 192.172.0.0/19 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 192.188.208.0/20 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 192.243.32.0/23 AS2044 PALINA Palin Aquisitions Inc. 196.2.95.0/24 AS8668 TELONE-AS TelOne Zimbabwe P/L 198.23.26.0/24 AS4390 BELLAT-7 Bell Atlantic, Inc. 198.97.72.0/21 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 198.97.80.0/20 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 198.97.88.0/24 AS89 NUSC-1 Naval Underwater Systems Center 198.97.240.0/20 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 198.97.247.0/24 AS3475 DEPART-52 Department of the Navy 198.101.4.0/22 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 198.136.32.0/20 AS19329 MCBCC Martin County Board of County Commissioners 198.144.32.0/19 AS3998 CITY CityNet, Inc. 198.161.87.0/24 AS6539 GTGR GT Group Telecom Services Corp. 198.161.165.0/24 AS852 AGTA Telus Advanced Communications 198.163.155.0/24 AS684 MRN Manitoba Regional Network 198.167.0.0/16 AS7456 INS-51 Interhop Network SERVICES Inc. 198.167.163.0/24 AS15290 ACCA-2 Allstream Corp. Corporation Allstream 198.168.0.0/16 AS701 UU UUNET Technologies, Inc. 198.169.0.0/16 AS803 SASK SaskTel 198.232.133.0/24 AS23075 SKOTOS Skotos Tech, Inc 199.10.0.0/16 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 199.60.0.0/20 AS271 UBC-3 University of British Columbia 199.96.44.0/23 AS19092 360NE-1 360Networks (USA) Inc. 199.96.46.0/24 AS19092 360NE-1 360Networks (USA) Inc. 199.114.0.0/18 AS568 DISOUN DISO-UNRRA 199.114.0.0/21 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 199.114.128.0/18 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 199.114.130.0/24 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 199.114.132.0/24 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 199.114.134.0/24 AS3541 DISAUN DISA/UNRRA 199.114.136.0/24 AS27044 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 199.114.138.0/24 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 199.114.140.0/24 AS3544 DISAUN DISA/UNRRA 199.114.142.0/24 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 199.114.144.0/24 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 199.114.148.0/24 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 199.114.150.0/24 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 199.114.152.0/24 AS27033 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 199.114.154.0/24 AS1733 ADP-41 AF DDN PMO 199.114.156.0/24 AS27034 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 199.114.160.0/24 AS1733 ADP-41 AF DDN PMO 199.120.32.0/19 AS16582 NXLI NEXTLEVEL INTERNET, INC. 199.121.0.0/16 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 199.123.0.0/18 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 199.123.16.0/20 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 199.123.80.0/21 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 199.189.32.0/19 AS7332 IQUEST IQuest Internet 199.197.8.0/22 AS21814 PARSON-18 Parsons Corp. 199.202.0.0/16 AS701 UU UUNET Technologies, Inc. 202.70.28.0/24 AS4515 ERX-STAR Star Internet Services Ltd. 202.72.64.0/21 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.64.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.65.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.66.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.67.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.68.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.69.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.70.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.71.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.72.0/21 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.72.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.73.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.74.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.75.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.76.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.77.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.78.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.79.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.73.128.0/22 AS4058 LINKAGENET-AP CPCNet Hong Kong Ltd. 202.93.0.0/20 AS4134 CHINANET-BACKBONE No.31,Jin-rong Street 202.160.128.0/23 AS9282 LEXICON-AS Lexicon Systems Pty Ltd 202.160.131.0/24 AS9282 LEXICON-AS Lexicon Systems Pty Ltd 202.160.132.0/22 AS9282 LEXICON-AS Lexicon Systems Pty Ltd 202.160.136.0/22 AS9282 LEXICON-AS Lexicon Systems Pty Ltd 202.160.142.0/24 AS9282 LEXICON-AS Lexicon Systems Pty Ltd 202.160.144.0/24 AS9282 LEXICON-AS Lexicon Systems Pty Ltd 202.160.145.0/24 AS9282 LEXICON-AS Lexicon Systems Pty Ltd 202.160.146.0/24 AS9282 LEXICON-AS Lexicon Systems Pty Ltd 202.160.147.0/24 AS9282 LEXICON-AS Lexicon Systems Pty Ltd 202.160.148.0/22 AS9282 LEXICON-AS Lexicon Systems Pty Ltd 202.160.156.0/23 AS9282 LEXICON-AS Lexicon Systems Pty Ltd 202.160.158.0/23 AS17642 RDSL-NATIONAL-AS Request Broadband BGP AS number 202.164.128.0/19 AS9654 CYBERSPACE-AP P/H Padilla Bldg., Emerald Avenue 202.164.224.0/19 AS7599 IPXC-AS-AP IP Exchange 203.32.4.0/23 AS7617 203.62.0.0/17 AS7572 AARNET-ACT-RNO Australian Academic and Reasearch Network (AARNet) 203.84.192.0/19 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 203.84.192.0/20 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 203.84.208.0/20 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 203.99.0.0/19 AS17746 ORCONINTERNET-NZ-AP Orcon Internet 203.170.14.0/23 AS6648 ASN-SKYINTERNET Autonomous System Number peering of Sky Internet - BAYANTEL Inc. - Philppines 203.210.69.0/24 AS17536 PRODIGY-AS-AP Prodidgy Telecommunications 204.154.125.0/24 AS3952 TELLAB-1 TELLABS Operations, Inc. 204.154.126.0/24 AS3952 TELLAB-1 TELLABS Operations, Inc. 204.154.127.0/24 AS3952 TELLAB-1 TELLABS Operations, Inc. 204.194.110.0/23 AS30653 EXOBI Exobit Networks Inc. 205.150.0.0/15 AS701 UU UUNET Technologies, Inc. 206.167.57.0/24 AS376 RISQR-3 Reseau Interordinateurs Scientique Quebecois (RISQ) 206.191.64.0/18 AS15290 ACCA-2 Allstream Corp. Corporation Allstream 206.251.69.0/24 AS27429 TIL-33 Telesat International Ltd. 206.253.190.0/23 AS8123 POLYBA Polybase 207.47.254.0/24 AS701 UU UUNET Technologies, Inc. 207.231.96.0/19 AS11194 NUNETI NuNet Inc 208.81.187.0/24 AS19194 SNL-8 Sentris Network LLC 209.17.71.0/24 AS32272 CLEAR-17 ClearSkye Communications Inc 209.17.79.0/24 AS32272 CLEAR-17 ClearSkye Communications Inc 209.17.80.0/24 AS32272 CLEAR-17 ClearSkye Communications Inc 209.172.0.0/18 AS7770 TRTI Triton Technologies, Inc. 209.205.69.0/24 AS21578 Universidad autonoma de Bucaramanga 209.205.70.0/24 AS21578 Universidad autonoma de Bucaramanga 209.205.81.0/24 AS15066 SkyNet de Colombia S.A. 209.205.82.0/24 AS15066 SkyNet de Colombia S.A. 209.205.84.0/24 AS15066 SkyNet de Colombia S.A. 209.213.32.0/19 AS10629 INS-52 Inter-Pacific Network Services 209.213.48.0/24 AS10629 INS-52 Inter-Pacific Network Services 209.213.49.0/24 AS10629 INS-52 Inter-Pacific Network Services 209.213.50.0/24 AS10629 INS-52 Inter-Pacific Network Services 209.251.0.0/19 AS11036 SISCOM-1 SISCOM, Inc 216.37.110.0/23 AS4264 CERFN California Education and Research Federation Network 216.96.128.0/18 AS7018 ATTW AT&T WorldNet Services 216.145.156.0/24 AS20304 JIS-32 JVLNET Internet Services 216.145.158.0/24 AS20304 JIS-32 JVLNET Internet Services 216.145.176.0/21 AS20304 JIS-32 JVLNET Internet Services 216.145.177.0/24 AS20304 JIS-32 JVLNET Internet Services 216.145.178.0/24 AS20304 JIS-32 JVLNET Internet Services 216.145.184.0/21 AS10758 INWAVE INWave Internet, Inc 216.145.200.0/21 AS20304 JIS-32 JVLNET Internet Services 216.171.96.0/20 AS3356 LEVEL3 Level 3 Communications 216.186.151.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 Level 3 Communications 216.186.152.0/21 AS3356 LEVEL3 Level 3 Communications 216.186.160.0/23 AS3356 LEVEL3 Level 3 Communications 216.186.164.0/22 AS3356 LEVEL3 Level 3 Communications 216.186.192.0/22 AS3356 LEVEL3 Level 3 Communications 216.186.198.0/23 AS3356 LEVEL3 Level 3 Communications 216.186.248.0/23 AS3356 LEVEL3 Level 3 Communications Please see http://www.cidr-report.org for the full report ------------------------------------ Copies of this report are mailed to: nanog(a)merit.edu eof-list(a)ripe.net apops(a)apops.net routing-wg(a)ripe.net afnog(a)afnog.org swinog(a)swinog.ch

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Netflow analysis best pratice and tools ?
by Joe Shen 19 Nov '04

19 Nov '04

Hi, We plan to set up netflow analysis in our backbone. It's hoped to be able to track communication demand inside our AS as well as our AS and other ASes. It also expected to be able to support route optimization and to detect abnormal network behavior . And, report generation is needed too. Is there any best pratice or recommendation on how to employ netflow collecting in ISP backbone? Is there any software or products covering all above ? thanks Joe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Log on to Messenger with your mobile phone! http://sg.messenger.yahoo.com

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Problems receiving emails from china...
by Lou Laczo 19 Nov '04

19 Nov '04

Hi all, I did a quick search of the archives and was unable to find any previous discussions relevant to this topic. One of our clients has been having problems receiving some legitmate emails from business associates in China. The client's mailserver is running qmail. In almost all of the cases, the failing email has at least one attachment and is larger than what might be considered "normal". Our client's mailserver receives part of the message and then the smtp connection hangs and eventyally times out. Many times, the sending mail server will attempt to send the message again and again before finally giving up. The failing messages can be successfully delivered to hotmail and/or yahoo accounts. I've observed this problem while it was occuring and there are multiple smtp connections open between the clients server and the sender's server. The connections are in various states, some established, some in fin_wait, etc. I've tried tracerouting to the sender's server and in every case I've observed the trace times are terrible. I've looked at various aspects of the mail server's configuration and all looks well there. I've even tried having the senders email to a totally different mailserver on our network and get similar failures. It's staring to look like this is just a simple case of bad network connectivity from the sender. My guess is that the big free email systems have relay servers all over the world, so the sender in China would be talking to a server much closer to home. This would explain why the mail can be successfully delivered to hotmail, yahoo, etc. Has anyone ever experienced a problem similar to this? Thanks in advance for your attention and any responses/help. --Lou. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Technical Support - INetU Managed Hosting - http://www.INetU.net support(a)INetU.net - Phone: (610) 266-7441

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BTInternet Contact Please?
by mripguru＠speakeasy.net 18 Nov '04

18 Nov '04

Hello, Are there any BTInternet Mail/Routing Engineers around on the list? If so, please contact me off-list regarding some networking issues. Thanks!

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Fibre Management Best Practices?
by Tiddle 18 Nov '04

18 Nov '04

Hi all, I am looking a 'best practices' document on fibre management. Short of that, something that outlines/highlights the benefits of going with a fully patched rather than direct spliced optical network design. Ie a document that shows: device <-> patch cable <-> patch panel <-> splice tray <-> splice tray <-> patch panel <-> patch cable <-> device Is better than device <-> pig tail <-> splice tray <-> splice tray <-> pig tail <-> device For the sake of troubleshooting, flexability, management. It's a turf war, I need some ammo. More specific details available off list Cheers

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NANOG Call for Presentations
by Susan Harris 18 Nov '04

18 Nov '04

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS NANOG 33 GENERAL SESSION TUTORIALS CASE STUDIES OPERATIONS RESEARCH POSTER SESSION January 30 - February 1, 2005 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * The North American Network Operators' Group (NANOG) will hold its 33rd meeting January 30 - February 1, 2005, in Las Vegas, Nevada. The meeting will be hosted by UltraDNS; registration begins December 1. NANOG conferences provide a forum for the coordination and dissemination of technical information related to backbone/enterprise networking technologies and operational practices. Meetings are held three times each year, and include two days of short presentations, plus afternoon/evening tutorial sessions and BoFs. The meetings are informal, with an emphasis on relevance to current backbone engineering practices. NANOG conferences draw over 500 participants, mainly consisting of engineering staff from national service providers, and members of the research and education community. For more information about NANOG meetings, schedules, and logistics, see: http://www.nanog.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS NANOG invites presentations on backbone engineering, coordination, and research topics. Presentations should highlight issues relating to technology already deployed or soon to be deployed in core Internet backbones and exchange points. Abstracts should include a concise summary of findings to be presented in the talk. Network operators are invited to present case studies detailing their experiences with network planning and design, protocol implementation, provisioning, useful tools, traffic engineering, problems solved, DoS scenarios and mitigation techniques, and troubleshooting, including automation, approaches, and techniques, Vendors are encouraged to work with operators to present deployment experiences with the vendor's products and interoperabilty. Researchers are invited to present short (10-minute) summaries of their work for operator feedback. Topics include routing, network performance, statistical measurement and analysis, and protocol development and implementation. Studies presented may be works in progress. Researchers from academia, government, and industry are encouraged to present. Presentation topics of special interest at NANOG 33 include: - Implementation experience with Ethernet, e.g., Transparent LAN service (TLS), Virtual Private LAN Service (VPLS), Ethernet private line, and Virtual Private Wire Service (VPWS). - Large-scale wireless deployment - Last-mile technologies, including Broadband Over Power Lines (BPL)/Power Line Distribution (PLD) - Security attacks/mitigation, tools, and analysis - Enterprise network security, management, and route control - Operator case studies on: - Integration with optical control planes, voice, and video - VOIP architectures and deployment - Building packet-switched networks (e.g., IP or MPLS) that can carry TDM, Layer 2 IP services, as well as emerging services, such as VPLS - Implementation experience with 10/100Gig E - Experience with active DoS retaliation methods, e.g., reverse port scanning - OSS architectures and implementations - SSM deployment experience - Circuit2Packet (C2P) experience with legacy services - State of Ops/Admin/Maintenance tools for IP and MPLS networks Proposals are also invited for tutorial sessions. Previous topics have included: - Troubleshooting BGP - Configuring IPsec - Options for Blackhole and Discard Routing - BGP/MPLS Layer 3 VPNs ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HOW TO PRESENT Submit an abstract and draft slides for the presentation in email to nanog-support(a)nanog.org. See http://www.nanog.org/presentations.html for submission guidelines. The deadline for abstracts and slides is December 15, 2004. While the majority of speaking slots will be filled by December 15, a limited number of slots may be available after that date for topics that are exceptionally timely, important, or critical to the operations of the Internet. Submissions will be reviewed by the NANOG Program Committee, and presenters will be notified of acceptance by December 24. Final drafts of presentation slides are due by January 19, and final versions January 26. NANOG also welcomes suggestions/recommendations for tutorials, panels, and other presentation topics. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

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NANOG33 in Las Vegas
by Susan Harris 18 Nov '04

18 Nov '04

We're pleased to announce that the next NANOG meeting will be held January 30 - February 1, 2005, in Las Vegas, Nevada. Our *fourth-time* (and much appreciated) host is Rodney Joffe of UltraDNS. Rodney also hosted NANOG 11, 22, and 27. Registration begins December 1, and you'll find a hotel announcement soon at www.nanog.org. Hope you can join us!

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Re: who gets a /32 [Re: IPV6 renumbering painless?]
by Miquel van Smoorenburg 18 Nov '04

18 Nov '04

In article <cistron.1100797360.3557.15.camel(a)firenze.zurich.ibm.com>, Jeroen Massar <jeroen(a)unfix.org> wrote: >On Thu, 2004-11-18 at 16:40 +0000, Miquel van Smoorenburg wrote: >> That depends on the jurisdiction. In many parts of the world, >> downloading is NOT illegal. But making copyrighted files available >> for download is illegal (without the proper autorization, ofcourse). > >Thus... say a newsserver full of illegal stuff is quite illegal? >Or that other nice example 'proxy servers', they store the data and then >relay it. A router could be said to 'store' the data also (in registers >for like a zillionth microsecond ;) and In general, store-and-forward and caching are allowed and not illegal. Yet. Mike.

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DMCA/Chilling Effects
by Tom (UnitedLayer) 17 Nov '04

17 Nov '04

(taking something from the EFF Thread earlier and making it more relevant) I'm sure most of the network operators here have at some time or another dealt with a DMCA, Subpoena or a C&D order. That being said, has having dealt with those issues lessened your interest in dealing with "free speech" type organizations? Has it affected your network policies at all? Is it something that affects the business side more than the operational side of your networks? Does anyone participate in the Chilling Effects Clearinghouse? (www.chillingeffects.org) Please respond in private and I'll post a summary in a few days if there's enough interest. --- Tom Sparks UnitedLayer Office: 415-294-4111 AS23342

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Re: EFF whitepaper
by Fred Heutte 17 Nov '04

17 Nov '04

I doubt that the participants in this discussion who are getting so huffy about the EFF position are ready to tolerate a situation where unknown third parties can arbitrarily block any email they send or receive, without informing them, regardless of content. Think about how that maps to the present situation. Fred

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