- Test - lists.nanog.org

Re: Software or PHP/PERL scripts for simple network management?
by Scott Weeks 19 Jun '07

19 Jun '07

--- drew.weaver(a)thenap.com wrote: Does anyone have a recommendation of any software products either commercial or freeware which will import the ip routing table from one of my routers/switches and display it in a sorted manner? We just need an easier distributed method than logging into our Black Diamond and typing sh iproute sorted every time we need to find an available subnet. -------------------------------------------------- How about something like this on a *nix box? The OID here is for Juniper... snmpwalk -Os -c public -v 1 111.111.111.111 1.3.6.1.4.1.2636.3.12.1.1 | cut -d "." -f 8-12 | cut -d " " -f1 | sort | uniq scott

4 3

Straw Poll - Multipoint Ethernet Connections Best Practices
by Michael K. Smith - Adhost 19 Jun '07

19 Jun '07

Hello All: As more and more providers move towards Ethernet as a common connection type in Data Centers, Metro Areas and beyond, I am curious to know what people are using for Best Practices regarding customer connectivity into your Layer 2 networks. Most importantly, how do you handle customers that want redundant Ethernet connections? I've put together the following list of questions and I'd be happy to summarize to the list if there's any interest. Also, if individuals have any other pertinent questions they feel I've left out, please don't hesitate to let me know. 1) Do you allow redundant Ethernet (Layer 2) connections into your network? 2) Do you allow customers to connect at Layer 2? And, if so: a) What, if any, port-based limitations on protocols? (Root Guard, BPUD-filtering, etc.?) b) What, if any, MAC restrictions do you have on the ports? 3) Do you allow customers to transmit HSRP/VRRP/GLBP state information across your Layer 2 infrastructure? 4) Do you require Layer 3 terminations for customers with redundant connections? 5) Do you provide OSPF "peering" to customers with redundant connections? 6) Do you provide BGP peering to customers with redundant connections? Regards, Michael K. Smith (my real, given name) :-) Adhost

1 0

New Chair of the Mailing List Committee
by Robert E. Seastrom 19 Jun '07

19 Jun '07

I am pleased to report that by unanimous vote, Alex Pilosov is the new Chair of the Mailing List Committee. Alex has been acting chair since February as schedule conflicts have limited my ability to perform several of the duties of the MLC chair. I'll be continuing as a regular member of the MLC until my term expires this fall. Congratulations to Alex! ---Rob (former MLC chair)

1 0

Network Parameters on Subscriber side feelings
by Joe Shen 18 Jun '07

18 Jun '07

hi, is there any work or research on measuring method for subscriber (customer)side feelings of network service? It seems that e2e ping delay, packet loss may miss some important factor when we consider subscriber's feelings. Joe __________________________________ Yahoo! Movies - Search movie info and celeb profiles and photos. http://sg.movies.yahoo.com/

4 3

Re: FBI tells the public to call their ISP for help
by Fergie 16 Jun '07

16 Jun '07

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - -- Florian Weimer <fw(a)deneb.enyo.de> wrote: >In most parts of the world, the Microsoft EULA is not enforceable. >Most users don't buy their software from Microsoft, either. It's >preinstalled on their PC, and Microsoft disclaims any support. NOTE: This has nothing to do with ISPs. Also, there is somewhere in the neighborhood of > 65M MS hosts "out there" that are either illegally or improperly licensed, and which cannot use Microsoft Update (due to the Genuine Advantage verification knobs). While they can download each patch individually through a series of acrobatic exercises, this sorta contributes to the whole end-system compromise problem. Again, not that this has much real bearing on the discussion, but figured I toss that into the mix. - - ferg p.s. I forget exactly where the >65M figure came from, but I'm pretty sure it Microsoft a few months back... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Desktop 9.6.1 (Build 1012) wj8DBQFGcyFWq1pz9mNUZTMRAhjMAKDMA6Zwy8ZPeatoQPKQiwQLiLod2QCg+pHO 3EUiDw6OXUp9DdjXM62p9qM= =izS9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- "Fergie", a.k.a. Paul Ferguson Engineering Architecture for the Internet fergdawg(at)netzero.net ferg's tech blog: http://fergdawg.blogspot.com/

3 2

Re: FBI tells the public to call their ISP for help
by Scott Weeks 16 Jun '07

16 Jun '07

* From: Joe Greco * Date: Sat Jun 16 07:58:20 2007 : Further, in the context of the discussion, I don't : really know if any ISP is recommending Windows, but : I know that some major ones won't even lift a finger : if you're using UNIX. The conversation wasn't they were recommending Windows, they were *requiring* it and won't support anything else. What about a Mac? Why wouldn't they support that OS? : My favorite example is Road Runner, where I personally had : the displeasure...when I called RR support, they wouldn't : debug it at an IP level until I hooked up a Windows PC : So they wouldn't even try to debug an IP level issue, which : I would kind of consider to be maybe... their core business. Did you stay with them or switch ISPs? scott > If Joe Sixpack has a Mac, calls his ISP for help, is told the ISP only > supports Micro$loth, asks for escalation and can't get that (or even > doesn't ask for escalation) I would think Joe would move to another > ISP. Thus my earlier statement that the ISP which does this we- > support-Micro$loth-only crazyness is doomed to failure. Perhaps that would be true if Micro$loth was a minority player in the OS world. However, the facts here are that MS comes deployed on a huge percentage of the computers in the world, and even if FreeBSD/Linux/etc enthusiasts are wiping it off a certain percentage of those, Macs still represent a very small percentage. If the graphs at http://www.systemshootouts.org/mac_sales.html are correct, we can probably draw the conclusion that less than 5% of the installed computing base is Mac. If we looked at Internet-facing browser usage, http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp suggests that this is a reasonable conclusion, with Windows making up about 90% of all browsing clients, 75% WinXP. Further, in the context of the discussion, I don't really know if any ISP is recommending Windows, but I know that some major ones won't even lift a finger if you're using UNIX. My favorite example is Road Runner, where I personally had the displeasure of running into a situation where a UNIX VPN gateway was "dead" on the 'net, couldn't traceroute beyond the first hop, traceroutes to it died in RRland, and when I called RR support, they wouldn't debug it at an IP level until I hooked up a Windows PC, which promptly DHCP'd a *different* IP address, which (inconveniently) worked. Yet, at the time, releasing the DHCP lease on the VPN box didn't result in a different IP address (strange RR DHCP servers), so when the VPN box came back on, it got the same busted IP address. The TSR took this as evidence that "UNIX didn't work" and advised me that it wasn't a Road Runner issue, and refused to assist any further. Unable to make any progress, in frustration, I switched interfaces on the VPN box, and bam, it worked. I pushed the issue a bit, later, and eventually got a read-between-the-lines admission that that the problem was something to do with RR having switched around IP blocks, but somehow it was still the UNIX VPN box's fault for never rebooting or something like that. So they wouldn't even try to debug an IP level issue, which I would kind of consider to be maybe... their core business. Now, really, does anyone expect companies like that to assist with problems that aren't even the core of their business? Perhaps you think "doomed to failure" is a synonym for "wheelbarrows of cash to be had." ;-)

1 0

Re: FBI tells the public to call their ISP for help
by Scott Weeks 16 Jun '07

16 Jun '07

-------- Valdis.Kletnieks(a)vt.edu wrote:-------------- On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 13:42:04 PDT, Scott Weeks said: > No I've never heard of that except, possibly, from non-clued phone monkeys. > It's easy to get past them to more clued folks, though... Maybe it's easy for you. It's usually a bit harder for a Joe Sixpack who has a Mac or Linux box, but doesn't have the industry connections we do. --------------------------------------------------- If Joe Sixpack has a Mac, calls his ISP for help, is told the ISP only supports Micro$loth, asks for escalation and can't get that (or even doesn't ask for escalation) I would think Joe would move to another ISP. Thus my earlier statement that the ISP which does this we-support-Micro$loth-only crazyness is doomed to failure. scott

4 3

Re: FBI tells the public to call their ISP for help
by Fergie 15 Jun '07

15 Jun '07

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - -- Per Heldal <heldal(a)eml.cc> wrote: >Regulation targeting software-vendors and service-providers has little >effect as it is an attempt to disrupt the money-flow somewhere in the >middle. It's usually more efficient to "attack" the source. I.e. >authorities must hold computer users responsible and make them pay every >penny (or millions;) it costs to investigate and clean up their mess. >Mainstream OS'es as we know them would have been unsellable in today's >market if users, ever since the internet was commercialised, had been >held responsible. > When the banks & merchants get sick & tired of underwriting the fraud investigation and coverage liabilities, I think we will begin to see more of an effort to put more of the liability in the user's lap. In fact, I think we are already starting to see some movement in the fringes regarding this. The only thing I can say about this is: be careful what you ask for. The issues that might result as fall-out might be uglier than what we have now. :-/ - - ferg -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Desktop 9.6.1 (Build 1012) wj8DBQFGcxuCq1pz9mNUZTMRAqmVAJwPwjgyLxKzlNqwbRZgXUk2uD4aywCdH+CQ MQJd8B/HGuhDFhCSN4K0K0M= =3NdK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- "Fergie", a.k.a. Paul Ferguson Engineering Architecture for the Internet fergdawg(at)netzero.net ferg's tech blog: http://fergdawg.blogspot.com/

1 0

Re: FBI tells the public to call their ISP for help
by Scott Weeks 15 Jun '07

15 Jun '07

----------------- darcy(a)druid.net wrote:--------------- From: "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy(a)druid.net> "Scott Weeks" <surfer(a)mauigateway.com> wrote: > : Most ISPs recommend using Microsoft software or > : provide software for the Microsoft platform, and > : require to turn on JavaScript > > I've never heard of an ISP requiring this. They might provide it for you if you want to use their branded Micro$loth-oriented software, but it's not a requirement. Any ISP requiring folks to use a particular OS is doomed to fail. You're kidding, right? Have you ever called an ISP to report a technical problem that has nothing to do with your computer or even your connection to them, say a reverse DNS issue? If you tell them that you run Unix they just ask you to run IE anyway. If you don't run Windows they won't help you. That's a pretty clear message. ----------------------------------------------------------- No I've never heard of that except, possibly, from non-clued phone monkeys. It's easy to get past them to more clued folks, though... scott

4 3

Re: FBI tells the public to call their ISP for help
by Scott Weeks 15 Jun '07

15 Jun '07

: Most ISPs recommend using Microsoft software or : provide software for the Microsoft platform, and : require to turn on JavaScript I've never heard of an ISP requiring this. They might provide it for you if you want to use their branded Micro$loth-oriented software, but it's not a requirement. Any ISP requiring folks to use a particular OS is doomed to fail. scott --- fw(a)deneb.enyo.de wrote: From: Florian Weimer <fw(a)deneb.enyo.de> To: Owen DeLong <owen(a)delong.com> Cc: Sean Donelan <sean(a)donelan.com>, Jack Bates <jbates(a)brightok.net>, nanog(a)nanog.org Subject: Re: FBI tells the public to call their ISP for help Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 22:06:42 +0200 * Owen DeLong: > Wrong... Most of them are subject to the problems they have because > of their contractual relationship with Micr0$0ft. Specifically, > they made the unfortunate mistake of purchasing software from > Micr0$0ft, agreeing to the Micr0$0ft End User License Agreement > (contractual relationship) and then running the Micr0$0ft software, > which lead directly to their system getting owned (or pwn3d if you > prefer) due to the enormous number of design flaws, well known > exploits, and other deficiencies in the code purchased from > Micr0$0ft. In most parts of the world, the Microsoft EULA is not enforceable. Most users don't buy their software from Microsoft, either. It's preinstalled on their PC, and Microsoft disclaims any support. > In what way, exactly, is this in any part the ISPs fault? Why > should their ISP bear the brunt of the costs for Micr0$0ft's poorly > written code? Most ISPs recommend using Microsoft software or provide software for the Microsoft platform, and require to turn on JavaScript, which makes browsers much more vulnerable. (Obviously, this doesn't matter in practice, but still.) They don't exist in a vacuum. But the whole thing underlines a very difficult problem compromised end users face: they haven't got anyone to turn to. Someone quoted rates for some services, and these aren't acceptable (you can almost get a newer, faster PC for that price). Part of the problem is piracy, which makes it difficult to reinstall everything from scratch. Another one is the lack of an audit trail which would tell *why* the customer got infected, so that you could get some learning effect.

3 2