- Test - lists.nanog.org

None
by None 12 Jul '07

12 Jul '07

92.168.11.24]) by rip.psg.com with esmtpsa (SSLv3:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <randy(a)psg.com>) id 1I97rh-0002qG-D5; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 23:14:29 +0000 Message-ID: <4696B5CE.2080506(a)psg.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 08:14:22 +0900 From: Randy Bush <randy(a)psg.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (Windows/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike(a)swm.pp.se> CC: nanog(a)nanog.org Subject: Re: peter lothberg's mother slashdotted References: <12997.1184264272(a)sa.vix.com> <20070712133910.B8475(a)sprockets.gibbar d.org> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0707122342300.29164(a)uplift.swm.pp.se> <4696AB85.1030407@in oc.net> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0707130039220.29164(a)uplift.swm.pp.se> In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0707130039220.29164(a)uplift.swm.pp.se> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu Precedence: bulk Errors-To: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu X-Loop: nanog X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=mozart.merit.edu X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: score=unknown, refid=str=0001.0A090203.4696BA74.0120:SCGAP167720,ss=1,fgs=0, ip=198.108.1.26, so=2006-09-22 03:48:54, dmn=5.3.14/2007-05-31 Status: RO > I have to disagree, considering the amount of people I've had to convice > that this really is a single 50GHz wave using 40G per second over DWDM > system designed for 10G and that it was router which is, i believe, the point of the publicity stunt. unfortunately, it does not help with us needing 100GE and more in the pop where this stuff aggregates. and, for those who remember when peter did the similar stunt to make the POS point, let's hope cisco does not try to sell us a merlin-like hack to deal with it until the ieee gets off its butt. randy

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None
by None 12 Jul '07

12 Jul '07

h Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 13 Jul 2007 00:14:59 +0100 Message-ID: <4696B55C.4090201(a)ukbroadband.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 00:12:28 +0100 From: Leigh Porter <leigh.porter(a)ukbroadband.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (Macintosh/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Philip Lavine <source_route(a)yahoo.com> CC: Stephen Wilcox <steve.wilcox(a)packetrade.com>, nanog <nanog(a)merit.edu> Subject: Re: TCP congestion References: <796919.42253.qm(a)web30811.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <796919.42253.qm(a)web30811.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Jul 2007 23:14:59.0400 (UTC) FILETIME=[77BAE480:01C7C4 DA] Sender: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu Precedence: bulk Errors-To: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu X-Loop: nanog X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=mozart.merit.edu X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: score=unknown, refid=str=0001.0A09020A.4696B969.0098:SCGAP167720,ss=1,fgs=0, ip=198.108.1.26, so=2006-09-22 03:48:54, dmn=5.3.14/2007-05-31 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: NonJunk X-UID: 36 Come on folks, don't be afraid. We all know the beast is to blame for this, just don't say the name three times... Shub Internet Philip Lavine wrote: > I just don't understand how if there is 1 segment that gets lost how this coul d translate to such a catastrophic long period of slow-start. How can I minimize the impact of the inevitable segment loss/out of order over a WAN. Is QoS the only option? > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Stephen Wilcox <steve.wilcox(a)packetrade.com> > To: Philip Lavine <source_route(a)yahoo.com> > Cc: nanog <nanog(a)merit.edu> > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 1:09:24 PM > Subject: Re: TCP congestion > > Well, if its out of order its the same as if its lost or delayed, it needs to see that missing segment before the window is full > > As mentioned you need to get dumps from both ends, you will almost definitely find that you have packet loss which tripped tcp's slow start mechanism. > > Steve > > On Thu, Jul 12, 2007 at 12:02:49PM -0700, Philip Lavine wrote: > > >> Even if the segment was received out of order what would cause congestion avo idance to starve the connection of legitimate traffic for 15 to 20 seconds? That is the core of the problem. >> >> ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Fred Baker <fred(a)cisco.com> >> To: Brian Knoll <Brian.Knoll(a)tradingtechnologies.com> >> Cc: Philip Lavine <source_route(a)yahoo.com>; nanog <nanog(a)merit.edu> >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 11:56:06 AM >> Subject: Re: TCP congestion >> >> >> On Jul 12, 2007, at 11:42 AM, Brian Knoll ((TTNET)) wrote: >> >> >>> If the receiver is sending a DUP ACK, then the sender either never >>> received the first ACK or it didn't receive it within the timeframe it >>> expected. >>> >> or received it out of order. >> >> Yes, a tcpdump trace is the first step. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _____________________________________________________________________________ _______ >> Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Y ahoo! Answers - Check it out. >> http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469 >> > > > ______________________________________________________________________________ ______ > Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. > http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/ >

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IEEE HSSG (was Re: peter lothberg's mother slashdotted)
by Mikael Abrahamsson 12 Jul '07

12 Jul '07

d.org> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0707122342300.29164(a)uplift.swm.pp.se> <4696AB85.1030407(a)inoc.net > <Pine.LNX.4.64.0707130039220.29164(a)uplift.swm.pp.se> <4696B5CE.2080506(a)psg.com> Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sender: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu Precedence: bulk Errors-To: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu X-Loop: nanog X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=mozart.merit.edu X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: score=unknown, refid=str=0001.0A090202.4696C007.0102:SCGAP167720,ss=1,fgs=0, ip=198.108.1.26, so=2006-09-22 03:48:54, dmn=5.3.14/2007-05-31 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: NonJunk X-UID: 42 On Fri, 13 Jul 2007, Randy Bush wrote: > sell us a merlin-like hack to deal with it until the ieee gets off its > butt. I hope everybody tells their vendors that 100GE is of high importance for them. The IEEE HSSG seem to be bogged down by 40GE vs 100GE right now with some voicing very strongly that 40GE should be included together with 100GE goal, mostly from the fibre channel and server folks. If you want 100GE by 2009-2010, please read up at <http://www.ieee802.org/3/hssg/public/index.html> and voice your opinion either on the email list or via your vendors. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike(a)swm.pp.se

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None
by None 12 Jul '07

12 Jul '07

h ESMTP id sg74Lp1Ctm7x for <nanog(a)trapdoor.merit.edu>; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 19:02:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mozart.merit.edu (mozart.merit.edu [198.108.95.9]) by trapdoor.merit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 238E14DF71 for <nanog(a)trapdoor.merit.edu>; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 19:01:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chopin.merit.edu (razorgate.merit.edu [198.108.95.8]) by mozart.merit.edu (MOS 3.8.2-GA) with ESMTP id AJW96365; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 19:03:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.174]) by chopin.merit.edu (MOS 3.8.2-GA) with ESMTP id AFJ88202; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 19:03:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 34so530412ugf for <nanog(a)nanog.org>; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:03:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject: cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=fW/koqRdgG7yOQfvrv1cgWZ0zIeDdjnHAahRZytZRNvqx3KErVRUYaEfXb3CeD7iiIW9UA VR4+no5dElE7Eqq7mUBOiscS4hkfPBUfRP6/ZZVYyYbF6vLG1Pj6T6oeIBQ3oj+avP7+2AR8nj01Xht8 hQvJHI/yZ3H6BpFT657nQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:c ontent-type:references; b=RP34t8gx4yENBmDhsF9soSVJ8bblu92M0SGDK6TeRkmIdvnRiwk9ogwZiCa3mJHNJXnJwi hrazXhYSOD68sKhwoxeEqNs3vkDutrnjffozEO0wYT6aZkeVEVJYFcbSELQQY78tdziQgnRjbY2CugON LHFADmBeYL3BNBVdqvyJQ= Received: by 10.78.97.7 with SMTP id u7mr326885hub.1184281416685; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:03:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.46.9 with HTTP; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:03:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <a193eb4d0707121603g40a3b95ib7cf5bb284873f90(a)mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 19:03:36 -0400 From: "Steve Meuse" <smeuse(a)gmail.com> To: "Brandon Butterworth" <brandon(a)rd.bbc.co.uk> Subject: Re: peter lothberg's mother slashdotted Cc: nanog(a)nanog.org In-Reply-To: <200707122141.WAA06503(a)sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_19714_18376479.1184281416214" References: <200707122141.WAA06503(a)sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> Sender: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu Precedence: bulk Errors-To: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu X-Loop: nanog X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=mozart.merit.edu X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: score=unknown, refid=str=0001.0A090207.4696B5DD.006F:SCGAP167720,ss=1,fgs=0, ip=198.108.1.26, so=2006-09-22 03:48:54, dmn=5.3.14/2007-05-31 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: NonJunk X-UID: 35 ------=_Part_19714_18376479.1184281416214 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 7/12/07, Brandon Butterworth <brandon(a)rd.bbc.co.uk> wrote: > > > > Wouldn't residential fiber be > > expected to radiate out from neighborhood break-out boxes, or at the > > longest from a central office in the middle of town, rather than having > > some central point where enough individual strands of fiber converged to > > serve everybody in a 2,000 kilometer radius? > > CRS-1 so expensive there'll only be one per country. > /so expensive/requires so much power/ -- -Steve ------=_Part_19714_18376479.1184281416214 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline <div>On 7/12/07, Brand on Butterworth <<a href="mailto:brandon@rd.bbc.co.uk">brandon(a)rd.bbc.co.u k</a>> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px s olid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> > Wouldn't residential fiber be > expected to radiate out from neighborhood break-out boxes, or at the > longest from a central office in the middle of town, rather than having > some central point where enough individual strands of fiber converged to > serve everybody in a 2,000 kilometer radius? CRS-1 so expensive there'll only be one per country. </blockquote></div> /so expensive/re quires so much power/ -- -Steve ------=_Part_19714_18376479.1184281416214--

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None
by None 12 Jul '07

12 Jul '07

d.org> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0707122342300.29164(a)uplift.swm.pp.se> <4696AB85.1030407@in oc.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <590D9BB5-8F82-4EEA-8C6A-E895766C13F5(a)multicasttech.com> Cc: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike(a)swm.pp.se>, nanog(a)nanog.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Marshall Eubanks <tme(a)multicasttech.com> Subject: Re: peter lothberg's mother slashdotted Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 18:52:25 -0400 To: Robert Blayzor <rblayzor(a)inoc.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Sender: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu Precedence: bulk Errors-To: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu X-Loop: nanog X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=mozart.merit.edu X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: score=unknown, refid=str=0001.0A090202.4696B3D8.0056:SCGAP167720,ss=1,fgs=0, ip=198.108.1.26, so=2006-09-22 03:48:54, dmn=5.3.14/2007-05-31 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: NonJunk X-UID: 34 On Jul 12, 2007, at 6:30 PM, Robert Blayzor wrote: > > Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: >> It's a demonstration of backbone technology, not really access >> technology. > > It's not even that. We all know that 40G technology exists today, > this article doesn't prove anything. On the contrary, I think that it proves again that Peter has a deep understanding of publicity. > How about they fling their magic wand some more and show us where > 40G to the residential marketplace is a viable business model. By > todays technology costs to make that happen and what the average > residential consumer pays, your ROI is about 20 years. ;-) > > -Robert Regards Marshall

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Re: peter lothberg's mother slashdotted
by Mikael Abrahamsson 12 Jul '07

12 Jul '07

d.org> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0707122342300.29164(a)uplift.swm.pp.se> <4696AB85.1030407(a)inoc.net > Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sender: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu Precedence: bulk Errors-To: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu X-Loop: nanog X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=mozart.merit.edu X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: score=unknown, refid=str=0001.0A090205.4696B011.0045:SCGAP167720,ss=1,fgs=0, ip=198.108.1.26, so=2006-09-22 03:48:54, dmn=5.3.14/2007-05-31 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: NonJunk X-UID: 33 On Thu, 12 Jul 2007, Robert Blayzor wrote: > It's not even that. We all know that 40G technology exists today, this > article doesn't prove anything. I have to disagree, considering the amount of people I've had to convice that this really is a single 50GHz wave using 40G per second over DWDM system designed for 10G and that it was router "LC - optical amplification - LC" with no transponders of any kind. I've sent the Cisco product link on IRC 4-5 times in channels populated by otherwise quite knowledgable people. Some didn't even know that LC existed even though it's been shipping for over a year. People have been under the impression that this was 4 10G waves, each using 50GHz. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike(a)swm.pp.se

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Re: peter lothberg's mother slashdotted
by Brandon Butterworth 12 Jul '07

12 Jul '07

> Wouldn't residential fiber be > expected to radiate out from neighborhood break-out boxes, or at the > longest from a central office in the middle of town, rather than having > some central point where enough individual strands of fiber converged to > serve everybody in a 2,000 kilometer radius? CRS-1 so expensive there'll only be one per country. brandon

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None
by None 12 Jul '07

12 Jul '07

Fe4jZYBZiuiS+M8ERg/Tx2OKdNbdSK7wqbMAKQaQQVVX6rwrWXmVccyXdxuGAqMfo2ZBJK/shEp8i+3a fb5FKa4cZ/leRCvxjhexg=; Received: from [172.17.67.246] (unverified [12.104.158.98]) by mx1-b.inoc.net (build v7.5.2) with ESMTP id 127874759-1941382 for multiple; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:30:30 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4696AB85.1030407(a)inoc.net> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 18:30:29 -0400 From: Robert Blayzor <rblayzor(a)inoc.net> Organization: INOC, LLC User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (Windows/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike(a)swm.pp.se> CC: nanog(a)nanog.org Subject: Re: peter lothberg's mother slashdotted References: <12997.1184264272(a)sa.vix.com> <20070712133910.B8475(a)sprockets.gibbar d.org> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0707122342300.29164(a)uplift.swm.pp.se> In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0707122342300.29164(a)uplift.swm.pp.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu Precedence: bulk Errors-To: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu X-Loop: nanog X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=mozart.merit.edu X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: score=unknown, refid=str=0001.0A090205.4696AC2F.00CC:SCGAP167720,ss=1,fgs=0, ip=198.108.1.26, so=2006-09-22 03:48:54, dmn=5.3.14/2007-05-31 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: NonJunk X-UID: 31 Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: > It's a demonstration of backbone technology, not really access technology. It's not even that. We all know that 40G technology exists today, this article doesn't prove anything. How about they fling their magic wand some more and show us where 40G to the residential marketplace is a viable business model. By todays technology costs to make that happen and what the average residential consumer pays, your ROI is about 20 years. ;-) -Robert

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None
by None 12 Jul '07

12 Jul '07

la.org) by sumamail.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2) with ESMTP-TLS id 17590560 for nanog(a)nanog.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 15:22:43 -070 0 Message-ID: <4696A9B2.2080401(a)velvet.org> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 15:22:42 -0700 From: matthew zeier <mrz(a)velvet.org> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (Macintosh/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "nanog(a)nanog.org" <nanog(a)nanog.org> Subject: juniper netscreen & cisco ios ipsec Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu Precedence: bulk Errors-To: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu X-Loop: nanog X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=mozart.merit.edu X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: score=unknown, refid=str=0001.0A090207.4696AA38.00BE:SCGAP167720,ss=1,fgs=0, ip=198.108.1.26, so=2006-09-22 03:48:54, dmn=5.3.14/2007-05-31 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: NonJunk X-UID: 30 This might border OT but I'm going crazy trying to get this IPSEC up between these two boxes (both in NA so maybe it is OT). If anyone has done so, drop me a line?

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peter lothberg's mother slashdotted
by Paul Vixie 12 Jul '07

12 Jul '07

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/12/1236231 http://www.thelocal.se/7869/20070712/

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