- Test - lists.nanog.org

None
by None 13 Jul '07

13 Jul '07

]) by chopin.merit.edu (MOS 3.8.2-GA) with ESMTP id AFK25665; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 07:33:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from steve@localhost) by mrserver.telecomplete.net (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id l6DBXGnV030107; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:33:16 +0100 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:33:16 +0100 From: Stephen Wilcox <steve.wilcox(a)packetrade.com> To: Robert Blayzor <rblayzor(a)inoc.net> Cc: nanog(a)nanog.org Subject: Re: peter lothberg's mother slashdotted Message-ID: <20070713113316.GL14059(a)MrServer.telecomplete.net> References: <20070712133910.B8475(a)sprockets.gibbard.org> <Pine.LNX.4.64.07071223 42300.29164(a)uplift.swm.pp.se> <4696AB85.1030407(a)inoc.net> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0707130 039220.29164(a)uplift.swm.pp.se> <4696B668.2080807(a)inoc.net> <4696C8DA.3070101@bog us.com> <4696D017.7010100(a)inoc.net> <4696D4A2.2010001(a)psg.com> <4696EF15.6020704 @utc.edu> <46975C58.4070602(a)inoc.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <46975C58.4070602(a)inoc.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Sender: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu Precedence: bulk Errors-To: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu X-Loop: nanog X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=mozart.merit.edu X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: score=unknown, refid=str=0001.0A090204.469763A9.0027:SCGAP167720,ss=1,fgs=0, ip=198.108.1.26, so=2006-09-22 03:48:54, dmn=5.3.14/2007-05-31 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: NonJunk X-UID: 58 On Fri, Jul 13, 2007 at 07:04:56AM -0400, Robert Blayzor wrote: > > Jeff Kell wrote: > >If we continue along orders of magnitude, sure it's foreseeable. > > > >* 30 years ago, 300 baud was the bomb :-) > >* 3000 baud was roughly 2400bps days > >* 30000 baud gets us to ~28.8k > >* 300000 baud was about 2 ISDN lines (2x128k) > >* 3000000 baud is about typical cable these days (3m) > > > Well using your logic, then it's partially true that 40G is not any time > soon. Especially considering fiber is in less than 1% of homes. Lets > not forget that all of the above has been established on existing > facilities that have been in homes for 30-50+ years. hmm.. at least here in the UK cable companies built out during the 90s in just a few years covering a large % of the population. upgrades in CO technology (DSLA Ms etc) seems to occur every 4-5yrs too so I dont think anything radical can be considered unachievable if you allow 5-10yrs for rollout > > You say 30 years ago, and lets roughly estimate it's four to five years > between those technologies above, which gets us to today. It's going to > take at least another 5 years to consider FTTP "the norm" at say 30M, > maybe sooner with technologies with DOCSIS 2.0, etc. So... > > 30M Is Today +4/5 years > 300M Is Today +8/10 years > 3G Is Today +12/15 years > 30G Is Today +16/20 years I was thinking about this bandwidth question recently too altho a bit differentl y. 1991 = 14.4kbps dialup 1994 = 28kbps dialup 1995 = 33kbps 1996 = 56kbps dialup 2000 = 512k dsl 2006 = 10Mb cable/dsl approximately speaking we increase an order of magnitude every 5 years, so perha ps we can expect: 2010 = 50Mb 2015 = 500Mb 2020 = 5Gb 2025 = 50Gb so our estimates are similar :) my guess is that wont be achieved with OC768 either.. i dont know if we can go t hat far with copper but it wouldnt surprise me. Steve > > If it's sooner all the better. Keeping in mind, installations like > Verizon FiOS don't run dedicated strands of glass to each home, they use > PON. So achieving anywhere near 40G on even the existing stuff they're > running into homes may not be possible for quite some time... > > PS -- baud != bps > > -Robert

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None
by None 13 Jul '07

13 Jul '07

69qTIxOLmb03xf15jdKARhYjmKcJj8ZisJJiXNYzOME91z1aruLU/6MMg0Z2jOyTfHXlUwJSpcWeEUMR K3yQZLyFAuXmpvjr3e2sk=; Received: from [172.17.67.246] (unverified [12.104.158.98]) by mx0-b.inoc.net (build v7.5.2) with ESMTP id 127037611-1941382 for <nanog(a)nanog.org>; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:16:32 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <46975F0F.4030707(a)inoc.net> Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 07:16:31 -0400 From: Robert Blayzor <rblayzor(a)inoc.net> Organization: INOC, LLC User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (Windows/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nanog(a)nanog.org Subject: Re: peter lothberg's mother slashdotted References: <12997.1184264272(a)sa.vix.com> <20070712133910.B8475@sprockets .gibbard.org> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0707122342300.29164(a)uplift.swm.pp.se> <4696AB 85.1030407(a)inoc.net> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0707130039220.29164(a)uplift.swm.pp.se> <4696B668.2080807(a)inoc.net> <4696C8DA.3070101(a)bogus.com> <4696D017.70101 00(a)inoc.net> <7bb79a490707122006g767c3d42u88e84d5782545355(a)mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <7bb79a490707122006g767c3d42u88e84d5782545355(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu Precedence: bulk Errors-To: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu X-Loop: nanog X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=mozart.merit.edu X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: score=unknown, refid=str=0001.0A09020A.46976159.003D:SCGAP167720,ss=1,fgs=0, ip=198.108.1.26, so=2006-09-22 03:48:54, dmn=5.3.14/2007-05-31 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: NonJunk X-UID: 57 micky coughes wrote: > I can see that *everybody* is missing the point on Peter's exercise. > Clearly this is to show to the telcos of the world that you can upgrade > to a native IP infrastructure and absorb the existing transport into the > router with a minimal effort. There was a post here from someone that > was there that explained how simple it was. This is HUGE! This has > the potential to completely disrupt telco transport dinosaur groups > *and* reshape the future. Taking it to his mom's house is just a poke > in the telco eye, he is making fun of them. This then begs the question > why can they do it between their facilities? If one guy can do it to a > *house* it must not be that hard. However, telcos with transport groups > of 1000s can't pull this off, this little project states volumes. There may be some telco's out there that don't know these types of technologies are out there. But for many, they are quiet aware. The fact is 10G seems a lot more economically feasible right now. Maybe if 40G, OC768 WDM line cards didn't cost over a quarter million dollars each there would be more deployments of it. The rate and cost of facility upgrades are far surpassing the means to make the ROI models work. -Robert

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by None 13 Jul '07

13 Jul '07

+wC/1qzWnl2AFz4ZjakpNyDTWpl4MjRjXVqrorI3SZ1m8z45ro8lpktWEvOZ1GwxZGlAaz0LjsF1ZHmI nVm/k3PcTTHM0RBi79Mgo=; Received: from [172.17.67.246] (unverified [12.104.158.98]) by mx1-b.inoc.net (build v7.5.2) with ESMTP id 127899339-1941382 for <nanog(a)nanog.org>; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:04:56 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <46975C58.4070602(a)inoc.net> Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 07:04:56 -0400 From: Robert Blayzor <rblayzor(a)inoc.net> Organization: INOC, LLC User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (Windows/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nanog(a)nanog.org Subject: Re: peter lothberg's mother slashdotted References: <12997.1184264272(a)sa.vix.com> <20070712133910.B8475(a)sprockets.gibbar d.org> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0707122342300.29164(a)uplift.swm.pp.se> <4696AB85.1030407@in oc.net> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0707130039220.29164(a)uplift.swm.pp.se> <4696B668.2080807@i noc.net> <4696C8DA.3070101(a)bogus.com> <4696D017.7010100(a)inoc.net> <4696D4A2.2010 001(a)psg.com> <4696EF15.6020704(a)utc.edu> In-Reply-To: <4696EF15.6020704(a)utc.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu Precedence: bulk Errors-To: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu X-Loop: nanog Jeff Kell wrote: > If we continue along orders of magnitude, sure it's foreseeable. > > * 30 years ago, 300 baud was the bomb :-) > * 3000 baud was roughly 2400bps days > * 30000 baud gets us to ~28.8k > * 300000 baud was about 2 ISDN lines (2x128k) > * 3000000 baud is about typical cable these days (3m) Well using your logic, then it's partially true that 40G is not any time soon. Especially considering fiber is in less than 1% of homes. Lets not forget that all of the above has been established on existing facilities that have been in homes for 30-50+ years. You say 30 years ago, and lets roughly estimate it's four to five years between those technologies above, which gets us to today. It's going to take at least another 5 years to consider FTTP "the norm" at say 30M, maybe sooner with technologies with DOCSIS 2.0, etc. So... 30M Is Today +4/5 years 300M Is Today +8/10 years 3G Is Today +12/15 years 30G Is Today +16/20 years If it's sooner all the better. Keeping in mind, installations like Verizon FiOS don't run dedicated strands of glass to each home, they use PON. So achieving anywhere near 40G on even the existing stuff they're running into homes may not be possible for quite some time... PS -- baud != bps -Robert

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None
by None 13 Jul '07

13 Jul '07

MTx9H4mDB6zuF8NBiJUUzbP1Hn4oqlVfnzuIbr8U2XiXlSPxR9lWlbnivf7FT6cQgw8LRPRVOzslSF0d M/EP7otfFST5GC5EMa1+U= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:c ontent-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=pp3HHw3YlsTnVcW4uSQO4uHkXlCBXCAvn7O+Rxm9gw1BeSk2BAZjPha1ZXrmaC10UPXIeu rHF+AlJZUsYJ5LqB/hHK01TZ1MNXdNgefyLAlqMJCQN1v5tBG5OSq1GyIU9K7dgUMX+2LXheSFMp0aQ4 P4Nbj7hXGUe5OrWnuoMfc= Received: by 10.35.91.10 with SMTP id t10mr2269889pyl.1184317236350; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 02:00:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.22.19 with HTTP; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 02:00:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <a2b2d0480707130200h120151bfhf101c2424b58aa05(a)mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:00:36 +0100 From: "Alexander Harrowell" <a.harrowell(a)gmail.com> To: "micky coughes" <coughes(a)gmail.com> Subject: Re: peter lothberg's mother slashdotted Cc: "Sean Donelan" <sean(a)donelan.com>, nanog(a)nanog.org In-Reply-To: <7bb79a490707122132j66ad5f23me1d7d13fc3973392(a)mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <12997.1184264272(a)sa.vix.com> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0707122342300.29164(a)uplift.swm.pp.se> <4696AB85.1030407(a)inoc.net> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0707130039220.29164(a)uplift.swm.pp.se> <4696B668.2080807(a)inoc.net> <4696C8DA.3070101(a)bogus.com> <4696D017.7010100(a)inoc.net> <7bb79a490707122006g767c3d42u88e84d5782545355(a)mail.gmail.com> <Pine.GSO.4.64.0707122335270.600(a)clifden.donelan.com> <7bb79a490707122132j66ad5f23me1d7d13fc3973392(a)mail.gmail.com> Sender: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu Precedence: bulk Errors-To: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu X-Loop: nanog I'm aware of several mobile carriers who are buying into CRS-1s, usually at the same time they decide to pull fibre to their heavier-trafficked cell sites - which is generally just after HSPA/EV-DO Rev.A deployment. For hip hop fans: "Yes Yes Y'All, CRS-ONE, CRS-ONE, ROCK ON!"

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None
by None 13 Jul '07

13 Jul '07

0cO1Y0Fl1dhqFWi+FMxR9Pw3YLYglVY1oPviKgcyF6gOTU5HhCD48U99vkPOSjK0+0nmdkzHDi0u7xJs 6nYdROWlYg4TNObJDhfl0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:c ontent-type:references; b=OLZGKdAZzmiVFJ2Gdkb0gi/cl1q8Yck+B0fK/3IP3J06qul87mByzV/ZUphsIL4fJgjlOs wsNL3hxtrpM/859+kp6fD4CtI0gSu3R5An3jkfm/tjdSQ7yLuSUHzl3MBuu8RADbSppawX3058KmDoA3 TI7o8XFYxpathOqV4R+xc= Received: by 10.82.160.2 with SMTP id i2mr1499818bue.1184301151879; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 21:32:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.82.172.9 with HTTP; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 21:32:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7bb79a490707122132j66ad5f23me1d7d13fc3973392(a)mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 00:32:31 -0400 From: "micky coughes" <coughes(a)gmail.com> To: "Sean Donelan" <sean(a)donelan.com> Subject: Re: peter lothberg's mother slashdotted Cc: nanog(a)nanog.org In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0707122335270.600(a)clifden.donelan.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_27902_13623940.1184301151803" References: <12997.1184264272(a)sa.vix.com> <20070712133910.B8475(a)sprockets.gibbard.org> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0707122342300.29164(a)uplift.swm.pp.se> <4696AB85.1030407(a)inoc.net> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0707130039220.29164(a)uplift.swm.pp.se> <4696B668.2080807(a)inoc.net> <4696C8DA.3070101(a)bogus.com> <4696D017.7010100(a)inoc.net> <7bb79a490707122006g767c3d42u88e84d5782545355(a)mail.gmail.com> <Pine.GSO.4.64.0707122335270.600(a)clifden.donelan.com> Sender: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu Precedence: bulk Errors-To: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu X-Loop: nanog X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=mozart.merit.edu X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: score=unknown, refid=str=0001.0A090209.46970152.0044:SCGAP167720,ss=1,fgs=0, ip=198.108.1.26, so=2006-09-22 03:48:54, dmn=5.3.14/2007-05-31 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: NonJunk X-UID: 54 ------=_Part_27902_13623940.1184301151803 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 7/12/07, Sean Donelan <sean(a)donelan.com> wrote: > > > On Thu, 12 Jul 2007, micky coughes wrote: > > I can see that *everybody* is missing the point on Peter's exercise. > > Clearly this is to show to the telcos of the world that you can upgrade > to a > > native IP infrastructure and absorb the existing transport into the > router > > with a minimal effort. There was a post here from someone that was > there > > that explained how simple it was. This is HUGE! This has the > potential to > > completely disrupt telco transport dinosaur groups *and* reshape the > > future. Taking it to his mom's house is just a poke in the telco eye, > he is > > making fun of them. This then begs the question why can they do it > between > > their facilities? If one guy can do it to a *house* it must not be that > > hard. However, telcos with transport groups of 1000s can't pull this > off, > > this little project states volumes. > > Anyone can buy CRS-1 from Cisco. All you need is money. Busting out my handy dandy cisco configuration tool I can see that this is a very expensive CPE solution. This exercise cannot be about last mile delivery, thinking so is foolish. Given that and moving the technology to the core it becomes: Money + laying off thousands of worthless telco TDM transport people. The solution that is presented is to take an existing 10G transport DWDM network, remove transponders, replace with router gear instead of forklifting the end terminal systems. This is a viable model. > Why are you waiting for the telco's to do something? I am waiting for them to go out of business so I can pick assets pennies on the dollar. Japan is spending over USD $30 Billion to bring 100Mbps to the most (but > not all) of their country. Verizon is spending about $23 Billion on FTTH > to reach 18 million homes. CableLabs is hoping DOCSIS 3.0 will bring 400+ > Mbps to the home without needing to replace the coax plant with fiber to > the home. You are confused and your argument is orthogonal. 40G home delivery is not currently an viable business model given the CPE cost. This is about upgrading your current transport from 10G to 40G with minimal cost and effort. For those that want 100G replace the handoff and incorporate the same or better modulation schemes. Welcome to the Bell 202 to Bell 212 upgrade. All you need is money. That is left as an simple exercise for the reader. > And to you obviously money is an infinite resource. ------=_Part_27902_13623940.1184301151803 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline <br><br> <div><span class="gmail_quote">On 7/12/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Sean Done lan</b> <<a href="mailto:sean@donelan.com">sean(a)donelan.com</a>> wrote:</s pan> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0. 8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"><br>On Thu, 12 Jul 2007, micky coughes wrote:< br>> I can see that *everybody* is missing the point on Peter's exercise. <br>> Clearly this is to show to the telcos of the world that you can upgrade to a<br>> native IP infrastructure and absorb the existing transport into th e router<br>> with a minimal effort.  There was a post here from so meone that was there <br>> that explained how simple it was.   This is HUGE!   This has the potential to<br>> completely disrupt telco transport dinosaur gr oups *and* reshape the<br>> future.  Taking it to his mom's hou se is just a poke in the telco eye, he is <br>> making fun of them.  This then begs the question why can they do it between<br>> their facilities?  If one guy can do it to a *h ouse* it must not be that<br>> hard.  However, telcos with transpor t groups of 1000s can't pull this off, <br>> this little project states volumes.<br><br>Anyone can buy CRS-1 from Ci sco.  All you need is money.</blockquote> <div> </div> <div>Busting out my handy dandy cisco configuration tool I can see that this is a very expensive CPE solution.  This exercise cannot be about last mil e delivery, thinking so is foolish.  Given that and moving the technology t o the core it becomes: Money + laying off thousands of worthless telco TDM trans port people.  The solution that is presented is to take an existing 10G tra nsport DWDM network, remove transponders, replace with router gear instead of fo rklifting the end terminal systems.  This is a viable model. </div> <div><br> </div> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0. 8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Why are you waiting for the telco's to do something?</blockquote> <div> </div> <div>I am waiting for them to go out of business so I can pick assets pennies on the dollar.</div><br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0. 8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Japan is spending over USD $30 Billion to brin g 100Mbps to the most (but<br>not all) of their country.  Verizon is s pending about $23 Billion on FTTH <br>to reach 18 million homes. CableLabs is hoping DOCSIS 3.0 will bring 400+<br >Mbps to the home without needing to replace the coax plant with fiber to<br>the home.</blockquote> <div> </div> <div>You are confused and your argument is orthogonal.  40G home delivery i s not currently an viable business model given the CPE cost.  This is about upgrading your current transport from 10G to 40G with minimal cost and eff ort.  For those that want 100G replace the handoff and incorporate the same or better modulation schemes.  Welcome to the Bell 202 to Bell 212 up grade. </div> <div> </div><br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0. 8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">All you need is money.  That is left as an simple exercise for the reader.<br></blockquote></div>And to you obviousl y money is an infinite resource. <br> ------=_Part_27902_13623940.1184301151803--

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Re: peter lothberg's mother slashdotted
by Scott Weeks 13 Jul '07

13 Jul '07

--- coughes(a)gmail.com wrote: From: "micky coughes" <coughes(a)gmail.com> I can see that *everybody* is missing the point on Peter's exercise. Clearly this is to show to the telcos of the world that you can upgrade to a native IP infrastructure and absorb the existing transport into the router with a minimal effort. There was a post here from someone that was there that explained how simple it was. This is HUGE! This has the potential to completely disrupt telco transport dinosaur groups *and* reshape the --------------------------------------------------- I guess you'll be pulling the fiber yourself, too? scott

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Re: peter lothberg's mother slashdotted
by Sean Donelan 13 Jul '07

13 Jul '07

rd.org> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0707122342300.29164(a)uplift.swm.pp.se> <4696AB85.1030407(a)inoc.n et> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0707130039220.29164(a)uplift.swm.pp.se> <4696B668.2080807(a)inoc.n et> <4696C8DA.3070101(a)bogus.com> <4696D017.7010100(a)inoc.net> <7bb79a490707122006g767c3d42u88e84d5782545355(a)mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sender: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu Precedence: bulk Errors-To: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu X-Loop: nanog X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=mozart.merit.edu X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: score=unknown, refid=str=0001.0A090209.4696F7CC.0072:SCGAP167720,ss=1,fgs=0, ip=198.108.1.26, so=2006-09-22 03:48:54, dmn=5.3.14/2007-05-31 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: NonJunk X-UID: 52 On Thu, 12 Jul 2007, micky coughes wrote: > I can see that *everybody* is missing the point on Peter's exercise. > Clearly this is to show to the telcos of the world that you can upgrade to a > native IP infrastructure and absorb the existing transport into the router > with a minimal effort. There was a post here from someone that was there > that explained how simple it was. This is HUGE! This has the potential to > completely disrupt telco transport dinosaur groups *and* reshape the > future. Taking it to his mom's house is just a poke in the telco eye, he is > making fun of them. This then begs the question why can they do it between > their facilities? If one guy can do it to a *house* it must not be that > hard. However, telcos with transport groups of 1000s can't pull this off, > this little project states volumes. Anyone can buy CRS-1 from Cisco. All you need is money. Why are you waiting for the telco's to do something? Japan is spending over USD $30 Billion to bring 100Mbps to the most (but not all) of their country. Verizon is spending about $23 Billion on FTTH to reach 18 million homes. CableLabs is hoping DOCSIS 3.0 will bring 400+ Mbps to the home without needing to replace the coax plant with fiber to the home. All you need is money. That is left as an simple exercise for the reader.

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None
by None 13 Jul '07

13 Jul '07

1b) with SMTP id <1.002D3E52(a)raven.utc.edu>; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 23:19:06 -0400 Received: from [172.30.0.19] qnh116 [172.30.0.19] by utc.edu with NetMail SMTP Agent $Revision: 1.6 $ on Novell NetWare via secured & encrypted transport (TLS); Thu, 12 Jul 2007 23:19:06 -0400 Message-ID: <4696EF15.6020704(a)utc.edu> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 23:18:45 -0400 From: Jeff Kell <jeff-kell(a)utc.edu> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (Windows/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randy Bush <randy(a)psg.com> CC: nanog(a)nanog.org Subject: Re: peter lothberg's mother slashdotted References: <12997.1184264272(a)sa.vix.com> <20070712133910.B8475(a)sprockets.gibbar d.org> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0707122342300.29164(a)uplift.swm.pp.se> <4696AB85.1030407@in oc.net> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0707130039220.29164(a)uplift.swm.pp.se> <4696B668.2080807@i noc.net> <4696C8DA.3070101(a)bogus.com> <4696D017.7010100(a)inoc.net> <4696D4A2.2010 001(a)psg.com> In-Reply-To: <4696D4A2.2010001(a)psg.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu Precedence: bulk Errors-To: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu X-Loop: nanog X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=mozart.merit.edu X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: score=unknown, refid=str=0001.0A090207.4696F0B7.0062:SCGAP167720,ss=1,fgs=0, ip=198.108.1.26, so=2006-09-22 03:48:54, dmn=5.3.14/2007-05-31 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: NonJunk X-UID: 51 Randy Bush wrote: >> you're not going to find any 40GB capable CPE now or in the >> foreseeable future that's going to be affordable for the residence. >> > > i would agree if we had not once said that about a few meg per sec. If we continue along orders of magnitude, sure it's foreseeable. * 30 years ago, 300 baud was the bomb :-) * 3000 baud was roughly 2400bps days * 30000 baud gets us to ~28.8k * 300000 baud was about 2 ISDN lines (2x128k) * 3000000 baud is about typical cable these days (3m) That puts us about another 4 orders of magnitude (3 if you count FTTP/etc generally available enough to count 30m as "now") away from 30G to CPE. I'm sure there are more accurate timelines :-) Jeff

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by None 13 Jul '07

13 Jul '07

QWjnhEVCBxp+GKhBDXVU9WDCbf717iCaoqCE5/egJRdp+OJR3gqHXZiq+Qtpj1llxIsrWhkAkA+KNQbk n2iTHOGJr/MaLV60iNmjg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:c ontent-type:references; b=DQbAxh2FT3zItbD+EZ25UPW5zTWrb6hxZgWnnm9fOcW2EkMZyUAEtzNgzX3GPLOSMraUBd L7GUBseKBpn38du767NYreXDC/Tv2NlAcHHyT2pfYVnoH/9SB6FMtrIpdcc1snd6LMWTKMFydLFMFpVO MH0GkRJksQuj/xn7B2KOI= Received: by 10.82.116.15 with SMTP id o15mr1478042buc.1184296014415; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 20:06:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.82.172.9 with HTTP; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 20:06:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7bb79a490707122006g767c3d42u88e84d5782545355(a)mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 23:06:54 -0400 From: "micky coughes" <coughes(a)gmail.com> To: "Robert Blayzor" <rblayzor(a)inoc.net> Subject: Re: peter lothberg's mother slashdotted Cc: nanog(a)nanog.org In-Reply-To: <4696D017.7010100(a)inoc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_27080_26397708.1184296014222" References: <12997.1184264272(a)sa.vix.com> <20070712133910.B8475(a)sprockets.gibbard.org> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0707122342300.29164(a)uplift.swm.pp.se> <4696AB85.1030407(a)inoc.net> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0707130039220.29164(a)uplift.swm.pp.se> <4696B668.2080807(a)inoc.net> <4696C8DA.3070101(a)bogus.com> <4696D017.7010100(a)inoc.net> Sender: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu Precedence: bulk Errors-To: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu X-Loop: nanog X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=mozart.merit.edu X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: score=unknown, refid=str=0001.0A090209.4696ED8A.0018:SCGAP167720,ss=1,fgs=0, ip=198.108.1.26, so=2006-09-22 03:48:54, dmn=5.3.14/2007-05-31 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: NonJunk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 7/12/07, Robert Blayzor <rblayzor(a)inoc.net> wrote: > > > > > > I know the intention of the article was to demonstrate the technological > advantage of fiber optic networking vs. other technologies, but to mask > the article around something that seems to indicate that "40GB to the > home" is somehow the current benchmark is incredibly unrealistic. > > -Robert I can see that *everybody* is missing the point on Peter's exercise. Clearly this is to show to the telcos of the world that you can upgrade to a native IP infrastructure and absorb the existing transport into the router with a minimal effort. There was a post here from someone that was there that explained how simple it was. This is HUGE! This has the potential to completely disrupt telco transport dinosaur groups *and* reshape the future. Taking it to his mom's house is just a poke in the telco eye, he is making fun of them. This then begs the question why can they do it between their facilities? If one guy can do it to a *house* it must not be that hard. However, telcos with transport groups of 1000s can't pull this off, this little project states volumes. ------=_Part_27080_26397708.1184296014222 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline <br><br> <div><span class="gmail_quote">On 7/12/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Robert Bl ayzor</b> <<a href="mailto:rblayzor@inoc.net">rblayzor(a)inoc.net</a>> wrote :</span> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0. 8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"><br><br><br><br>I know the intention of the ar ticle was to demonstrate the technological<br>advantage of fiber optic networkin g vs. other technologies, but to mask <br>the article around something that seems to indicate that "40GB to the<b r>home" is somehow the current benchmark is incredibly unrealistic.<br><br> -Robert</blockquote> <div> </div> <div>I can see that *everybody* is missing the point on Peter's exercise.&nb sp; Clearly this is to show to the telcos of the world that you can upgrade to a native IP infrastructure and absorb the existing transport into the router with a minimal effort.  There was a post here from someone that was there that explained how simple it was.   This is HUGE!  This has the p otential to completely disrupt telco transport dinosaur groups *and* reshape the future.  Taking it to his mom's house is just a poke in the telco eye, he is making fun of them.  This then begs the question why can they d o it between their facilities?  If one guy can do it to a *house* it must n ot be that hard.  However, telcos with transport groups of 1000s can't pull this off, this little project states volumes. </div><br> </div><br> ------=_Part_27080_26397708.1184296014222--

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d.org> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0707122342300.29164(a)uplift.swm.pp.se> <4696AB85.1030407@in oc.net> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0707130039220.29164(a)uplift.swm.pp.se> <4696B668.2080807@i noc.net> <4696C8DA.3070101(a)bogus.com> <4696D017.7010100(a)inoc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <0B45439E-DD83-47F7-B5B7-8647EDF30A70(a)zill.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Patrick Giagnocavo <patrick(a)zill.net> Subject: Re: peter lothberg's mother slashdotted Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:53:03 -0400 To: nanog(a)nanog.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) Sender: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu Precedence: bulk Errors-To: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu X-Loop: nanog X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=mozart.merit.edu X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: score=unknown, refid=str=0001.0A090208.4696EA15.004A:SCGAP167720,ss=1,fgs=0, ip=198.108.1.26, so=2006-09-22 03:48:54, dmn=5.3.14/2007-05-31 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: NonJunk X-UID: 49 On Jul 12, 2007, at 9:06 PM, Robert Blayzor wrote: > > I know the intention of the article was to demonstrate the > technological advantage of fiber optic networking vs. other > technologies, but to mask the article around something that seems > to indicate that "40GB to the home" is somehow the current > benchmark is incredibly unrealistic. > > -Robert What would be the best way to phrase it? 40TTH? GTTH (gigabit to the home)? If you can use the Indian name for 10 million in there somewhere, you can brag about "quad-crore" speeds ... --Patrick

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