August 2012 - Test - lists.nanog.org

LISP vs. IRON vs. BGP (was Re: BGPttH. Neustar can do it, why can't we?)
by Paul Vinciguerra 23 Aug '12

23 Aug '12

On 8/7/12 10:50 AM, Wes Felter wrote: >> The goal here was to make this as simple and cost-effective as the NAT-based >> IPv4 solution currently in common use. There's no reason it can't be exactly that. >> >> It does provide advantages over the NAT-based solution (sessions can survive >> failover). > What do people think about Fred Templin's IRON multihomed tunneling > approach (or LISP, I guess it can do it)? IRON should give you > multihoming with stable IPv4 and IPv6 PA prefixes, even for incoming > traffic. It's less reliable than BGP in theory since you'd be virtually > single-homed to your IRON provider but that might be a worthwhile > tradeoff since staying up is pretty much their purpose in life. > You'd have to pay a third provider to terminate your tunnels, but that > might be cheaper than paying an extra BGP tax to both of your physical > providers. IRON appears to require much less configuration than BGP and > it can also provide IPv6 over v4-only providers (good luck finding *two* > broadband providers in the same location that provide IPv6 and BGP). > -- > Wes Felter > IBM Research - Austin IRON looks interesting. I will look at that in more depth. We provide true multi-homing across providers (usually what we find most people mean when they say BGP) and v6 to the home via LISP. The traffic can be configured for load sharing across links or as an active/passive configuration. We announce the aggregates into the DFZ. Paul Vinciguerra CCIE 10291 [Description: cid:A37A812F-9283-4165-9459-FA9025300523] 120 W Park Avenue, Suite 308 Long Beach, NY 11561 P: 516-977-2095 * F: 516-977-2482 * TF: 866-998-4624 vinciconsulting.com

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None
by ty chan 23 Aug '12

23 Aug '12

http://homeprobestprice.info/wp-admin/bjsdvs.php?comz=comz

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Re: NANOG Digest, Vol 55, Issue 68
by Babak Pasdar 23 Aug '12

23 Aug '12

Sure -- Sounds good. -- Babak Pasdar | President & CEO | Certified Ethical Hacker | Bat Blue Networks (p) 212.461.3322 x3005 | (w) BatBlue.com | (t) @bpasdar : @batblue Learn About Cloud Security: Cloud Security Video | Cloud Network Video Bat Blue is The Official Provider for ESPN X Games _____ From: nanog-request(a)nanog.org To: nanog(a)nanog.org Sent: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 15:13:50 -0500 Subject: NANOG Digest, Vol 55, Issue 68 Send NANOG mailing list submissions to nanog(a)nanog.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to nanog-request(a)nanog.org You can reach the person managing the list at nanog-owner(a)nanog.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of NANOG digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Fair Use Policy (Shahab Vahabzadeh) 2. Re: Copyright infringement notice (Owen DeLong) 3. Re: Fair Use Policy (Shahab Vahabzadeh) 4. RE: Copyright infringement notice (Naslund, Steve) 5. Re: Fair Use Policy (Shahab Vahabzadeh) 6. Re: Copyright infringement notice (Robert Bonomi) 7. Re: Fair Use Policy (Shahab Vahabzadeh) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 23:10:34 +0430 From: Shahab Vahabzadeh <sh.vahabzadeh(a)gmail.com> To: nanog(a)nanog.org Subject: Fair Use Policy Message-ID: <CAGqGmqb54GQL-yh4nwB8fsbTO6B+P4OVgUZxbqxSbcyDnAAHsQ(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hello Everybody, Has any body any good and easy setup idea for "Fair Use Policy" service for my xdsl customers?! Can do this in the BRAS side and nothing done with accounting and radius? Thanks -- Regards, Shahab Vahabzadeh, Network Engineer and System Administrator Cell Phone: +1 (415) 871 0742 PGP Key Fingerprint = 8E34 B335 D702 0CA7 5A81 C2EE 76A2 46C2 5367 BF90 ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 11:42:31 -0700 From: Owen DeLong <owen(a)delong.com> To: "Anne P. Mitchell, Esq." <amitchell(a)isipp.com> Cc: nanog(a)nanog.org Subject: Re: Copyright infringement notice Message-ID: <6B54F6B0-94CD-47C9-B255-CC678F247E45(a)delong.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Of all the legal advice I've seen posted to NANOG, I think this might be the first time it's come from a lawyer. Great post, Anne. Thanks for the advice. Owen On Aug 22, 2012, at 11:17 , "Anne P. Mitchell, Esq." <amitchell(a)isipp.com> wrote: > >> On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 6:16 AM, groupstudytac groupstudytac >> <groupstudytac(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> I get copyright notices from companies like Irdeto , saying that one of my >>> customers IP is downloading unauthorized material using bittorent. I also >>> have processes in place to handle such notices . >>> >>> Can anyone share how he handles such notices in his ISP environment , i am >>> ready to adapt some valid steps to improve the existing process. >>> >>> Or should i just ignore such messages ? >> >> If you're in the U.S., the process for handling these notices is >> prescribed by law, specifically the Digital Millennium Copyright Act >> (search: DMCA takedown notice). It details what the infringement >> notice must include in order to be actionable and what steps the ISP >> must take on receipt of an actionable notice. It also prescribes >> procedures for the alleged infringer to object and for the ISP to >> restore the material following an objection. >> >> Follow the procedures described in the law to retain your immunity as >> an ISP. Consult a local lawyer if you don't find them sufficiently >> obvious. > > The thing that muddies this is that, as I understand it, the notice was not for takedown (i.e. there is not an allegation that they are *hosting* infringing material) - it is a notice that one of their users *downloaded* copyrighted material (IP, do I have that right?) > > This is part of the RIAA's "graduated response" program, to which several major ISPs, including AT&T, Verizon, and Comcast, have agreed. > > Basically, the accuser contacts the ISP, and the ISP sends a warning (a "copyright alert") to their user (without giving up the user to the accuser). > > If the same user is accused subsequently, they get another, sterner warning. In total there is a series of six warnings, with "mitigation measures" accompanying the fifth and sixth warning. > > If I were counseling an ISP - whether one that was part of the agreement, or not - I would say that the first order is to *put your policy around copyright alerts in writing* - asap - and make it as specific as possible - and then *ALWAYS FOLLOW IT EVERY SINGLE TIME*. > > It almost (I say almost) doesn't matter what the policy is so long as it's reasonable, but it matters that it be followed to the letter every time, no exceptions. > > And, if you are an ISP that isn't part of the agreement with the RIAA, it's still not a bad idea to structure your policy to follow the six "copyright alert" structure, because there is some precedent there, and then you come off looking like you are trying to do the right thing, which will make you a less easy target. > > These two articles give a pretty good explanation of the deal: > > https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/03/graduated-response-deal-steamrollers-… > > http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2011/07/major-isps-agree-to-six-strikes-… > > Anne > > Anne P. Mitchell, Esq > CEO/President > Institute for Social Internet Public Policy > http://www.ISIPP.com > Member, Cal. Bar Cyberspace Law Committee > ISIPP Email Accreditation: http://www.SuretyMail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 23:27:20 +0430 From: Shahab Vahabzadeh <sh.vahabzadeh(a)gmail.com> To: Owen DeLong <owen(a)delong.com> Cc: nanog(a)nanog.org Subject: Re: Fair Use Policy Message-ID: <CAGqGmqZsMHn6Ua+Y-EWyrScYxXc_o5sKd5TVZdkz-Ni6GKkNLQ(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dear Owen, As you know in pick time of internet usage like midnight in which we have free-access times too, some users which really want to use internet for their daily usage and not downloading or using peer-to-peer services unfairly affecting this problem. Some companies are using some polices for users to solve this problem. Do you have any Idea? Thanks On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Owen DeLong <owen(a)delong.com> wrote: > I think the first step would be to define what you mean by fair use. > > Are you talking in the DMCA sense of the term, the legal sense of the term > as applies > to IP in other areas, or something else? > > Owen > > On Aug 22, 2012, at 11:40 , Shahab Vahabzadeh <sh.vahabzadeh(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Hello Everybody, > > Has any body any good and easy setup idea for "Fair Use Policy" service > for > > my xdsl customers?! > > Can do this in the BRAS side and nothing done with accounting and radius? > > Thanks > > > > -- > > Regards, > > Shahab Vahabzadeh, Network Engineer and System Administrator > > > > Cell Phone: +1 (415) 871 0742 > > PGP Key Fingerprint = 8E34 B335 D702 0CA7 5A81 C2EE 76A2 46C2 5367 BF90 > > -- Regards, Shahab Vahabzadeh, Network Engineer and System Administrator Cell Phone: +1 (415) 871 0742 PGP Key Fingerprint = 8E34 B335 D702 0CA7 5A81 C2EE 76A2 46C2 5367 BF90 ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 14:04:19 -0500 From: "Naslund, Steve" <SNaslund(a)medline.com> To: <nanog(a)nanog.org> Subject: RE: Copyright infringement notice Message-ID: <2A76E400AC84B845AAC35AA19F8E7A5D0BE84281(a)MUNEXBE1.medline.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Now you did it Anne, prepare for the deluge of advice requests :) Seriously though, thanks for chiming in on this. Steven Naslund -----Original Message----- From: Owen DeLong [mailto:owen@delong.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 1:43 PM To: Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. Cc: nanog(a)nanog.org Subject: Re: Copyright infringement notice Of all the legal advice I've seen posted to NANOG, I think this might be the first time it's come from a lawyer. Great post, Anne. Thanks for the advice. Owen On Aug 22, 2012, at 11:17 , "Anne P. Mitchell, Esq." <amitchell(a)isipp.com> wrote: > >> On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 6:16 AM, groupstudytac groupstudytac >> <groupstudytac(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> I get copyright notices from companies like Irdeto , saying that one >>> of my customers IP is downloading unauthorized material using >>> bittorent. I also have processes in place to handle such notices . >>> >>> Can anyone share how he handles such notices in his ISP environment >>> , i am ready to adapt some valid steps to improve the existing process. >>> >>> Or should i just ignore such messages ? >> >> If you're in the U.S., the process for handling these notices is >> prescribed by law, specifically the Digital Millennium Copyright Act >> (search: DMCA takedown notice). It details what the infringement >> notice must include in order to be actionable and what steps the ISP >> must take on receipt of an actionable notice. It also prescribes >> procedures for the alleged infringer to object and for the ISP to >> restore the material following an objection. >> >> Follow the procedures described in the law to retain your immunity as >> an ISP. Consult a local lawyer if you don't find them sufficiently >> obvious. > > The thing that muddies this is that, as I understand it, the notice > was not for takedown (i.e. there is not an allegation that they are > *hosting* infringing material) - it is a notice that one of their > users *downloaded* copyrighted material (IP, do I have that right?) > > This is part of the RIAA's "graduated response" program, to which several major ISPs, including AT&T, Verizon, and Comcast, have agreed. > > Basically, the accuser contacts the ISP, and the ISP sends a warning (a "copyright alert") to their user (without giving up the user to the accuser). > > If the same user is accused subsequently, they get another, sterner warning. In total there is a series of six warnings, with "mitigation measures" accompanying the fifth and sixth warning. > > If I were counseling an ISP - whether one that was part of the agreement, or not - I would say that the first order is to *put your policy around copyright alerts in writing* - asap - and make it as specific as possible - and then *ALWAYS FOLLOW IT EVERY SINGLE TIME*. > > It almost (I say almost) doesn't matter what the policy is so long as it's reasonable, but it matters that it be followed to the letter every time, no exceptions. > > And, if you are an ISP that isn't part of the agreement with the RIAA, it's still not a bad idea to structure your policy to follow the six "copyright alert" structure, because there is some precedent there, and then you come off looking like you are trying to do the right thing, which will make you a less easy target. > > These two articles give a pretty good explanation of the deal: > > https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/03/graduated-response-deal-steamrol > lers-towards-july-1-launch > > http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2011/07/major-isps-agree-to-six-str > ikes-copyright-enforcement-plan/ > > Anne > > Anne P. Mitchell, Esq > CEO/President > Institute for Social Internet Public Policy http://www.ISIPP.com > Member, Cal. Bar Cyberspace Law Committee ISIPP Email Accreditation: > http://www.SuretyMail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 23:36:40 +0430 From: Shahab Vahabzadeh <sh.vahabzadeh(a)gmail.com> To: Owen DeLong <owen(a)delong.com> Cc: nanog(a)nanog.org Subject: Re: Fair Use Policy Message-ID: <CAGqGmqZAnoD=xf+9GR0wyQECH65VQv39X1CX56Kqv5WvB5HTcw(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 What I am talking mostly is some services like COA, in which you can change users shape time-base and periodically without disconnecting them. On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 11:33 PM, Owen DeLong <owen(a)delong.com> wrote: > If you want to control usage that way, sell a metered product. Bill the > heavy users more for their usage. > > Otherwise, price your services such that you can build adequate upstream > capacity to serve your users. > > I'm not a fan of using "rateshaping" (which is what you are describing) to > cover for inadequate facilities. > > Owen > > On Aug 22, 2012, at 11:57 , Shahab Vahabzadeh <sh.vahabzadeh(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > Dear Owen, > As you know in pick time of internet usage like midnight in which we have > free-access times too, some users which really want to use internet for > their daily usage and not downloading or using peer-to-peer services > unfairly affecting this problem. > Some companies are using some polices for users to solve this problem. > Do you have any Idea? > Thanks > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Owen DeLong <owen(a)delong.com> wrote: > >> I think the first step would be to define what you mean by fair use. >> >> Are you talking in the DMCA sense of the term, the legal sense of the >> term as applies >> to IP in other areas, or something else? >> >> Owen >> >> On Aug 22, 2012, at 11:40 , Shahab Vahabzadeh <sh.vahabzadeh(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> > Hello Everybody, >> > Has any body any good and easy setup idea for "Fair Use Policy" service >> for >> > my xdsl customers?! >> > Can do this in the BRAS side and nothing done with accounting and >> radius? >> > Thanks >> > >> > -- >> > Regards, >> > Shahab Vahabzadeh, Network Engineer and System Administrator >> > >> > Cell Phone: +1 (415) 871 0742 >> > PGP Key Fingerprint = 8E34 B335 D702 0CA7 5A81 C2EE 76A2 46C2 5367 BF90 >> >> > > > -- > Regards, > Shahab Vahabzadeh, Network Engineer and System Administrator > > Cell Phone: +1 (415) 871 0742 > PGP Key Fingerprint = 8E34 B335 D702 0CA7 5A81 C2EE 76A2 46C2 5367 BF90 > > > -- Regards, Shahab Vahabzadeh, Network Engineer and System Administrator Cell Phone: +1 (415) 871 0742 PGP Key Fingerprint = 8E34 B335 D702 0CA7 5A81 C2EE 76A2 46C2 5367 BF90 ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 14:07:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Bonomi <bonomi(a)mail.r-bonomi.com> To: bill(a)herrin.us, groupstudytac(a)gmail.com Cc: nanog(a)nanog.org Subject: Re: Copyright infringement notice Message-ID: <201208221907.q7MJ7huc063499(a)mail.r-bonomi.com> > From nanog-bounces+bonomi=mail.r-bonomi.com(a)nanog.org Wed Aug 22 10:54:49 2012 > From: William Herrin <bill(a)herrin.us> > Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 11:54:00 -0400 > Subject: Re: Copyright infringement notice > To: groupstudytac groupstudytac <groupstudytac(a)gmail.com> > Cc: nanog(a)nanog.org > > On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 6:16 AM, groupstudytac groupstudytac > <groupstudytac(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I get copyright notices from companies like Irdeto , saying that one of my > > customers IP is downloading unauthorized material using bittorent. I also > > have processes in place to handle such notices . > > > > Can anyone share how he handles such notices in his ISP environment , i am > > ready to adapt some valid steps to improve the existing process. > > > > Or should i just ignore such messages ? > > If you're in the U.S., the process for handling these notices is > prescribed by law, specifically the Digital Millennium Copyright Act > (search: DMCA takedown notice). It details what the infringement > notice must include in order to be actionable and what steps the ISP > must take on receipt of an actionable notice. It also prescribes > procedures for the alleged infringer to object and for the ISP to > restore the material following an objection. > > Follow the procedures described in the law to retain your immunity as > an ISP. Consult a local lawyer if you don't find them sufficiently > obvious. Note: the DMCA, and 'takedown notices' associated therewith apply to contet that an ISP customer is 'publishing' by public display on the Internet. The OP is getting notices that someone with an IP address in a netblock 'belonging' to the ISP he operates is _downloading_ content that 'someone else' [more than one such entity, in all probability, given that it's bittorrent, and presumably exteral to the OP's netblock(s)] is doing the 'publishing' addressed by the DMCA, and the 'safe harbor' provisions for ISPs. I'm NOT SURE whether the ISP has any potential liability in _this_ situation -- there's nothing 'published' by their customer for them to 'take down', etc. However, the *only* reasonable/rational recommedation that can be made to the OP is "consult competent professional legal counsel in *your* jurisdiction." It is virtully a requirement to do this on a "paid", "commercial", "lawyer-client" basis, and to get the 'opinion' _in_writing_, so that *if* the advice received (and which was followed) turns out 'after the fact' to be incorrect, one has recourse aginst the lawyer's malpractice insurance (to make one whole, as far as the 'detrimental reliance' on the opinion that was proven to be incorrect). *I* would be tempted to respond, *once*, to the issuer of such notices, to the effect that customemr info is disclosed only upon receipt of a valid court subpoena, and the 'records production' costs are $$/hr, with an $xx minimum. And, if they persited in the FUD notices, I would explicitly *block* the source (not 'discard', but actively block -- so that they have 'actual notice' of non-delivery). I *WOULD*, however, take my own advice, and pay a competent lawyer for a consultation, BEFORE actually doing anything of the sort. <grin> ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 23:43:12 +0430 From: Shahab Vahabzadeh <sh.vahabzadeh(a)gmail.com> To: aj(a)sneep.net Cc: nanog(a)nanog.org Subject: Re: Fair Use Policy Message-ID: <CAGqGmqY1ea-oEYWU_wC+D+_ZJsz4KL3dz8iFAAOKJT-xg=E2jQ(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I am using Cisco 7206 VXR with NPE-G2 as my BRAS's. On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 11:40 PM, Alastair Johnson <aj(a)sneep.net> wrote: > Depends on your BRAS. Some support time-of-day or other threshold based > policy changes. > > Generally speaking though you would be better going to an external policy > engine. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Shahab Vahabzadeh <sh.vahabzadeh(a)gmail.com> > Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 23:36:40 > To: Owen DeLong<owen(a)delong.com> > Cc: <nanog(a)nanog.org> > Subject: Re: Fair Use Policy > > What I am talking mostly is some services like COA, in which you can change > users shape time-base and periodically without disconnecting them. > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 11:33 PM, Owen DeLong <owen(a)delong.com> wrote: > > > If you want to control usage that way, sell a metered product. Bill the > > heavy users more for their usage. > > > > Otherwise, price your services such that you can build adequate upstream > > capacity to serve your users. > > > > I'm not a fan of using "rateshaping" (which is what you are describing) > to > > cover for inadequate facilities. > > > > Owen > > > > On Aug 22, 2012, at 11:57 , Shahab Vahabzadeh <sh.vahabzadeh(a)gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > Dear Owen, > > As you know in pick time of internet usage like midnight in which we have > > free-access times too, some users which really want to use internet for > > their daily usage and not downloading or using peer-to-peer services > > unfairly affecting this problem. > > Some companies are using some polices for users to solve this problem. > > Do you have any Idea? > > Thanks > > > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Owen DeLong <owen(a)delong.com> wrote: > > > >> I think the first step would be to define what you mean by fair use. > >> > >> Are you talking in the DMCA sense of the term, the legal sense of the > >> term as applies > >> to IP in other areas, or something else? > >> > >> Owen > >> > >> On Aug 22, 2012, at 11:40 , Shahab Vahabzadeh <sh.vahabzadeh(a)gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >> > Hello Everybody, > >> > Has any body any good and easy setup idea for "Fair Use Policy" > service > >> for > >> > my xdsl customers?! > >> > Can do this in the BRAS side and nothing done with accounting and > >> radius? > >> > Thanks > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Regards, > >> > Shahab Vahabzadeh, Network Engineer and System Administrator > >> > > >> > Cell Phone: +1 (415) 871 0742 > >> > PGP Key Fingerprint = 8E34 B335 D702 0CA7 5A81 C2EE 76A2 46C2 5367 > BF90 > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Regards, > > Shahab Vahabzadeh, Network Engineer and System Administrator > > > > Cell Phone: +1 (415) 871 0742 > > PGP Key Fingerprint = 8E34 B335 D702 0CA7 5A81 C2EE 76A2 46C2 5367 BF90 > > > > > > > > > -- > Regards, > Shahab Vahabzadeh, Network Engineer and System Administrator > > Cell Phone: +1 (415) 871 0742 > PGP Key Fingerprint = 8E34 B335 D702 0CA7 5A81 C2EE 76A2 46C2 5367 BF90 > -- Regards, Shahab Vahabzadeh, Network Engineer and System Administrator Cell Phone: +1 (415) 871 0742 PGP Key Fingerprint = 8E34 B335 D702 0CA7 5A81 C2EE 76A2 46C2 5367 BF90 End of NANOG Digest, Vol 55, Issue 68 *************************************

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Copyright infringement notice
by groupstudytac groupstudytac 22 Aug '12

22 Aug '12

Hello , I get copyright notices from companies like Irdeto , saying that one of my customers IP is downloading unauthorized material using bittorent. I also have processes in place to handle such notices . Can anyone share how he handles such notices in his ISP environment , i am ready to adapt some valid steps to improve the existing process. Or should i just ignore such messages ? Rgds IP

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Re: Fair Use Policy
by Shahab Vahabzadeh 22 Aug '12

22 Aug '12

I am using Cisco 7206 VXR with NPE-G2 as my BRAS's. On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 11:40 PM, Alastair Johnson <aj(a)sneep.net> wrote: > Depends on your BRAS. Some support time-of-day or other threshold based > policy changes. > > Generally speaking though you would be better going to an external policy > engine. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Shahab Vahabzadeh <sh.vahabzadeh(a)gmail.com> > Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 23:36:40 > To: Owen DeLong<owen(a)delong.com> > Cc: <nanog(a)nanog.org> > Subject: Re: Fair Use Policy > > What I am talking mostly is some services like COA, in which you can change > users shape time-base and periodically without disconnecting them. > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 11:33 PM, Owen DeLong <owen(a)delong.com> wrote: > > > If you want to control usage that way, sell a metered product. Bill the > > heavy users more for their usage. > > > > Otherwise, price your services such that you can build adequate upstream > > capacity to serve your users. > > > > I'm not a fan of using "rateshaping" (which is what you are describing) > to > > cover for inadequate facilities. > > > > Owen > > > > On Aug 22, 2012, at 11:57 , Shahab Vahabzadeh <sh.vahabzadeh(a)gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > Dear Owen, > > As you know in pick time of internet usage like midnight in which we have > > free-access times too, some users which really want to use internet for > > their daily usage and not downloading or using peer-to-peer services > > unfairly affecting this problem. > > Some companies are using some polices for users to solve this problem. > > Do you have any Idea? > > Thanks > > > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Owen DeLong <owen(a)delong.com> wrote: > > > >> I think the first step would be to define what you mean by fair use. > >> > >> Are you talking in the DMCA sense of the term, the legal sense of the > >> term as applies > >> to IP in other areas, or something else? > >> > >> Owen > >> > >> On Aug 22, 2012, at 11:40 , Shahab Vahabzadeh <sh.vahabzadeh(a)gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >> > Hello Everybody, > >> > Has any body any good and easy setup idea for "Fair Use Policy" > service > >> for > >> > my xdsl customers?! > >> > Can do this in the BRAS side and nothing done with accounting and > >> radius? > >> > Thanks > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Regards, > >> > Shahab Vahabzadeh, Network Engineer and System Administrator > >> > > >> > Cell Phone: +1 (415) 871 0742 > >> > PGP Key Fingerprint = 8E34 B335 D702 0CA7 5A81 C2EE 76A2 46C2 5367 > BF90 > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Regards, > > Shahab Vahabzadeh, Network Engineer and System Administrator > > > > Cell Phone: +1 (415) 871 0742 > > PGP Key Fingerprint = 8E34 B335 D702 0CA7 5A81 C2EE 76A2 46C2 5367 BF90 > > > > > > > > > -- > Regards, > Shahab Vahabzadeh, Network Engineer and System Administrator > > Cell Phone: +1 (415) 871 0742 > PGP Key Fingerprint = 8E34 B335 D702 0CA7 5A81 C2EE 76A2 46C2 5367 BF90 > -- Regards, Shahab Vahabzadeh, Network Engineer and System Administrator Cell Phone: +1 (415) 871 0742 PGP Key Fingerprint = 8E34 B335 D702 0CA7 5A81 C2EE 76A2 46C2 5367 BF90

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Re: Fair Use Policy
by Shahab Vahabzadeh 22 Aug '12

22 Aug '12

What I am talking mostly is some services like COA, in which you can change users shape time-base and periodically without disconnecting them. On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 11:33 PM, Owen DeLong <owen(a)delong.com> wrote: > If you want to control usage that way, sell a metered product. Bill the > heavy users more for their usage. > > Otherwise, price your services such that you can build adequate upstream > capacity to serve your users. > > I'm not a fan of using "rateshaping" (which is what you are describing) to > cover for inadequate facilities. > > Owen > > On Aug 22, 2012, at 11:57 , Shahab Vahabzadeh <sh.vahabzadeh(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > Dear Owen, > As you know in pick time of internet usage like midnight in which we have > free-access times too, some users which really want to use internet for > their daily usage and not downloading or using peer-to-peer services > unfairly affecting this problem. > Some companies are using some polices for users to solve this problem. > Do you have any Idea? > Thanks > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Owen DeLong <owen(a)delong.com> wrote: > >> I think the first step would be to define what you mean by fair use. >> >> Are you talking in the DMCA sense of the term, the legal sense of the >> term as applies >> to IP in other areas, or something else? >> >> Owen >> >> On Aug 22, 2012, at 11:40 , Shahab Vahabzadeh <sh.vahabzadeh(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> > Hello Everybody, >> > Has any body any good and easy setup idea for "Fair Use Policy" service >> for >> > my xdsl customers?! >> > Can do this in the BRAS side and nothing done with accounting and >> radius? >> > Thanks >> > >> > -- >> > Regards, >> > Shahab Vahabzadeh, Network Engineer and System Administrator >> > >> > Cell Phone: +1 (415) 871 0742 >> > PGP Key Fingerprint = 8E34 B335 D702 0CA7 5A81 C2EE 76A2 46C2 5367 BF90 >> >> > > > -- > Regards, > Shahab Vahabzadeh, Network Engineer and System Administrator > > Cell Phone: +1 (415) 871 0742 > PGP Key Fingerprint = 8E34 B335 D702 0CA7 5A81 C2EE 76A2 46C2 5367 BF90 > > > -- Regards, Shahab Vahabzadeh, Network Engineer and System Administrator Cell Phone: +1 (415) 871 0742 PGP Key Fingerprint = 8E34 B335 D702 0CA7 5A81 C2EE 76A2 46C2 5367 BF90

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Re: Fair Use Policy
by Shahab Vahabzadeh 22 Aug '12

22 Aug '12

Dear Owen, As you know in pick time of internet usage like midnight in which we have free-access times too, some users which really want to use internet for their daily usage and not downloading or using peer-to-peer services unfairly affecting this problem. Some companies are using some polices for users to solve this problem. Do you have any Idea? Thanks On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Owen DeLong <owen(a)delong.com> wrote: > I think the first step would be to define what you mean by fair use. > > Are you talking in the DMCA sense of the term, the legal sense of the term > as applies > to IP in other areas, or something else? > > Owen > > On Aug 22, 2012, at 11:40 , Shahab Vahabzadeh <sh.vahabzadeh(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Hello Everybody, > > Has any body any good and easy setup idea for "Fair Use Policy" service > for > > my xdsl customers?! > > Can do this in the BRAS side and nothing done with accounting and radius? > > Thanks > > > > -- > > Regards, > > Shahab Vahabzadeh, Network Engineer and System Administrator > > > > Cell Phone: +1 (415) 871 0742 > > PGP Key Fingerprint = 8E34 B335 D702 0CA7 5A81 C2EE 76A2 46C2 5367 BF90 > > -- Regards, Shahab Vahabzadeh, Network Engineer and System Administrator Cell Phone: +1 (415) 871 0742 PGP Key Fingerprint = 8E34 B335 D702 0CA7 5A81 C2EE 76A2 46C2 5367 BF90

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Fair Use Policy
by Shahab Vahabzadeh 22 Aug '12

22 Aug '12

Hello Everybody, Has any body any good and easy setup idea for "Fair Use Policy" service for my xdsl customers?! Can do this in the BRAS side and nothing done with accounting and radius? Thanks -- Regards, Shahab Vahabzadeh, Network Engineer and System Administrator Cell Phone: +1 (415) 871 0742 PGP Key Fingerprint = 8E34 B335 D702 0CA7 5A81 C2EE 76A2 46C2 5367 BF90

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NANOG poll: favorite cable labeler?
by Robert E. Seastrom 22 Aug '12

22 Aug '12

Hey everyone, Many moons ago I worked in a place where we had a Brady LS2000 wire labeler. So long as the supplies were fresh it was great. In the storage unit I have a Brady TLS2200. Supplies are expensive, but it works reasonably well. Unfortunately the battery is shot (gotta replace that). It seems to me that as cheap as the Brother P-Touch type labelers have gotten that there might be some product by (Brady|Dymo|Brother|etc) that everyone uses and recommends these days which is (a) cheap enough that they can be deployed en masse rather than treated as a scarce resource, (b) hopefully runs on standard (such as AAA) battery types, and (c) has reasonably priced supplies. Labeling cables is mostly what I'm interested in. The el-cheapo p-touch seems adequate to putting hostnames on machines. Thoughts? -r

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Comcast vs. Verizon for repair methodologies
by Patrick W. Gilmore 22 Aug '12

22 Aug '12

Given the recent VZ thread, I thought I'd show why my new house has crap Internet. The story: A piece of underground cable went bad. The techs didn't pull new underground cable. They decided it was better to do it "arial" (if you can call 2 feet "arial"). They took apart the two pedestals on either side of the break and ran a new strand of RG6 (yes, the same stuff you use inside your home, not the outside-plant rated stuff) tied to trees with rope. <http://ianai.smugmug.com/BostonPix/2012/Comcast-Atherton-Street> These pedestals have looked like this for months apparently. I called the 800 # and complained, they rolled a truck. The guy didn't even come in my house, just gave me his supervisor's number and said that he's a home tech, the outside plant guys are the problem and he can't fix it. A second guy rolled up while we were chatting and told me he had a call around the block for the same thing. They've been taking complaints about this for months and are as tired of it as we are. I assured them I was more tired of it, given he was getting paid while I was paying, but I understood their situation. Of course, since the other "broadband" option at my house is 1 Mbps Verizon DSL, I don't have much leverage. :( -- TTFN, patrick P.S. Worst part is AT&T sux there too, so I have a picocell - which runs over the Comcast cable mode....

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