June 2009 - Test - lists.nanog.org

Re: NANOG Digest, Vol 17, Issue 51
by Chris Ledford 18 Jun '09

18 Jun '09

Cisco aironet ...reliable and the ony way to go ... Chris ledford CCNA CCSP CWLSS ------Original Message------ From: nanog-request(a)nanog.org To: nanog(a)nanog.org ReplyTo: nanog(a)nanog.org Subject: NANOG Digest, Vol 17, Issue 51 Sent: Jun 18, 2009 9:23 AM Send NANOG mailing list submissions to nanog(a)nanog.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to nanog-request(a)nanog.org You can reach the person managing the list at nanog-owner(a)nanog.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of NANOG digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Wireless bridge (Peter Boone) 2. Re: Wireless bridge (Jared Mauch) 3. Re: WISP NMS recommendations (Patrick Shoemaker) 4. Re: Wireless bridge (Joe Tyson) 5. Re: Wireless bridge (Chuck Anderson) 6. Re: Wireless bridge (Roy) 7. Re: Wireless bridge (Curtis Maurand) 8. Re: Wireless bridge (Joel Jaeggli) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:05:56 -0400 From: "Peter Boone" <NANOG(a)Aquillar.com> Subject: Wireless bridge To: <nanog(a)nanog.org> Message-ID: <005c01c9f015$852ae490$8f80adb0$@com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi NANOG, I'm looking for some equipment recommendations for a wireless bridge between two locations approximately 500-800 meters apart. The current setup for this company has been extremely unstable and slow. I don't have a lot of experience in this area so I was hoping someone could give me a few pointers. Currently, both locations are using Linksys WRT54GL's flashed with DD-WRT firmware (Yes, 802.11g. All extra bells and whistles are disabled in the firmware. They were set up for WDS so other wireless clients could connect to the same access point, with varying degrees of success. Not very important). They are connected to SmartAnt 2300-2500 MHz 14 dBi directional antenna mounted on the roof (extended pretty high for perfect line of sight). I'm not sure when they got these antenna exactly but I'm told it was when WiFi was very new. The network is very small so both locations share the same subnet (192.168.1.0/24). They have gone through numerous Linksys access points over the years. The wireless settings are tweaked as best as possible, and we have found the connection to be most stable when the TX is limited to 6-9 Mbps. We have explored other options as well. An internet connection at each location + VPN is out due to very slow upstream speeds (the buildings are in an industrial area, ADSL is the only option.) The max they offer on regular business accounts is 800 kbps up. T1 lines are even slower and even more expensive. They won't offer us any other solutions such as fibre. We have considered running fibre/coax but there is too much construction activity and other property in the way. I'm looking into RouterBOARD right now, considering a RB433AH and R52H wireless card, but I'm not sure this will actually solve the problem. It's difficult to determine if the issue is with the antennas or access points (for example, after a good thunderstorm, the wireless link will be down for at least 12 hours, but will fix itself eventually. Resetting either access point will keep the link down for at least 30 minutes. Using an airgun on the access points tends to make them more reliable, even if they are clean and dust free. From the admin interface, each access point will report seeing a very good and strong signal from the other, yet they refuse to communicate until they feel like it a few hours later.) Any suggestions welcome. I'm sure you can tell cost is a bit of a factor here but it will be easy for me to justify a higher price if I'm confident it will be effective. While I'm at it, I've been reading along on the list for over a year now; thanks everyone for sharing your real world experiences :) Peter ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:18:24 -0400 From: Jared Mauch <jared(a)puck.nether.net> Subject: Re: Wireless bridge To: Peter Boone <NANOG(a)Aquillar.com> Cc: nanog(a)nanog.org Message-ID: <20090618131824.GA25957(a)puck.nether.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 09:05:56AM -0400, Peter Boone wrote: > Hi NANOG, > > I'm looking for some equipment recommendations for a wireless bridge between > two locations approximately 500-800 meters apart. The current setup for this > company has been extremely unstable and slow. I don't have a lot of > experience in this area so I was hoping someone could give me a few > pointers. I've had good luck with Cisco Aironet gear running in repeater mode. I've done the cheap linksys thing as well and it just did not work as well as using some equipment that was better designed. I have actually found the non-IOS software on the aironet 350/340 to be more usable than the IOS software. You need to have your network be consistent. You also have the obvious interference challenges with any unlicensed deployment. - Jared some of the equipment i've used: http://cgi.ebay.com/5-Cisco-Aironet-350-WAPs-AP352E2R-A-K9_W0QQitemZ2003516… http://cgi.ebay.com/Cisco-AIR-AP1121G-A-K9-Aironet-1100-1121-Access-Point_W… -- Jared Mauch | pgp key available via finger from jared(a)puck.nether.net clue++; | http://puck.nether.net/~jared/ My statements are only mine. ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:21:56 -0400 From: Patrick Shoemaker <shoemakerp(a)vectordatasystems.com> Subject: Re: WISP NMS recommendations To: nanog(a)nanog.org Message-ID: <4A3A3F74.6060601(a)vectordatasystems.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Although this would probably be better suited for one of the WISPA lists, I'll respond here anyhow since there seems to be some interest. For managing Canopy elements, Motorola Prizm is probably the way to go. First of all, you'll need it to handle element authentication for your PtMP system. It will also do configuration management, alerting, and all the usual NMS stuff. It's also *possible* to get it to work with other SNMP capable devices if you want to manage other vendors' equipment. It will work out of the box with the Canopy PtMP line, PtP devices, powerline carrier devices, and (I think) the MotoMESH line. It gives you all the info you need at a glance for each element: configuration history, RF power level plots, bandwidth utilization plots, alert history, etc. FYI if you haven't used it, Prizm is a pretty clunky and slow Java-based package. The features are nice, but configuring it can be a chore. Patrick Shoemaker Vector Data Systems LLC shoemakerp(a)vectordatasystems.com office: (301) 358-1690 x36 http://www.vectordatasystems.com nanog-request(a)nanog.org wrote: > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:31:29 -0700 > From: Freddie Sessler <nanogger(a)gmail.com> > Subject: WISP NMS recommendations > To: nanog(a)nanog.org > Message-ID: > <d0f4f2f20906172131i5f86c80ds993a943c4f0ddf4f(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi Folks,I am looking for recommendations on an NMS system for use in > managing a multivendor ------Original Message Truncated------

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Telephones for Noisy Data Centers
by Rick 18 Jun '09

18 Jun '09

The ones I can recommend in that line are the headsets from David Clark. I've used these for decades in some of the harshest noise locations with great success. While most of the adaptors I use are home made I suspect that they can supply one for about any application. They have for me. http://www.davidclark.com/ regards Rick Try noice-canceling aviation headsets (GA or helicopter models have truly amazing noise suppression). High-end models come with cellphone interface. I don't think cellphones will work in many data centers, but I think rigging interface from a normal cordless phone to the headset is pretty simple. The better of these headsets (Bose X, Sennheiser HMC460, Zulu Lightspeed, etc) have additional digital signal processing for getting voice out of noise - if you don't mind expense:) --vadim > Michael J McCafferty wrote: > > All, > > I'd be OK if we were in a facility that was only average in terms of > > noise, but we are not. I need an exceptional phone for the data center. > > Something that doesn't transmit the horrible background noise to the > > other end, and something that is loud without being painful for the user > > of this phone. Cordless would be very fine, headset is excellent. > > Ordinary desk phone is OK... but the most important thing is that it > > works for clear communication. A loud ringer would great too... but if > > the best phone doesn't have one, I'll get an auxiliary ringer. > > > > Does anyone have a phone model that they find to be excellent in a > > louder than usual data center?

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Cogent input
by Justin Shore 18 Jun '09

18 Jun '09

I'm in search of some information about Cogent, it's past, present and future. I've heard bits and pieces about Cogent's past over the years but by no means have I actively been keeping up. I'm aware of some (regular?) depeering issues. The NANOG archives have given me some additional insight into that (recurring?) problem. The reasoning behind the depeering events is a bit fuzzy though. I would be interested in people's opinion on whether or not they should be consider for upstream service based on this particular issue. Are there any reasonable mitigation measures available to Cogent downstreams if (when?) Cogent were to be depeered again? My understanding is that at least on previous depeering occasion, the depeering partner simply null-routed all prefixes being received via Cogent, creating a blackhole essentially. I also recall reading that this meant that prefixes being advertised and received by the depeering partner from other peers would still end up in the blackhole. The only solution I would see to this problem would be to shut down the BGP session with Cogent and rely on a 2nd upstream. Are there any other possible steps for mitigation in a depeering event? I also know that their bandwidth is extremely cheap. This of course creates an issue for technical folks when trying to justify other upstream options that cost significantly more but also don't have a damaging history of getting depeered. Does Cogent still have an issue with depeering? Are there any reasonable mitigation measures or should a downstream customer do any thing in particular to ready themselves for a depeering event? Does their low cost outweigh the risks? What are the specific risks? Thanks Justin

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Re: WISP NMS recommendations
by Patrick Shoemaker 18 Jun '09

18 Jun '09

Although this would probably be better suited for one of the WISPA lists, I'll respond here anyhow since there seems to be some interest. For managing Canopy elements, Motorola Prizm is probably the way to go. First of all, you'll need it to handle element authentication for your PtMP system. It will also do configuration management, alerting, and all the usual NMS stuff. It's also *possible* to get it to work with other SNMP capable devices if you want to manage other vendors' equipment. It will work out of the box with the Canopy PtMP line, PtP devices, powerline carrier devices, and (I think) the MotoMESH line. It gives you all the info you need at a glance for each element: configuration history, RF power level plots, bandwidth utilization plots, alert history, etc. FYI if you haven't used it, Prizm is a pretty clunky and slow Java-based package. The features are nice, but configuring it can be a chore. Patrick Shoemaker Vector Data Systems LLC shoemakerp(a)vectordatasystems.com office: (301) 358-1690 x36 http://www.vectordatasystems.com nanog-request(a)nanog.org wrote: > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:31:29 -0700 > From: Freddie Sessler <nanogger(a)gmail.com> > Subject: WISP NMS recommendations > To: nanog(a)nanog.org > Message-ID: > <d0f4f2f20906172131i5f86c80ds993a943c4f0ddf4f(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi Folks,I am looking for recommendations on an NMS system for use in > managing a multivendor wireless infrastructure. Specifically we run mostly > Motorola point to point, point to multipoint(Canopy platform) and mesh > radios devices We have looked at the One Point Wireless Manager but this > product in our evaluation doesn't seem to be ready for prime time and also > has the limitation of only being able to manage Motorola. Ideally we would > have something that could be used for configuration management in a multi > vendor environment as well as recieve SNMP traps about RF issues such as > latency and jitter. I am curious to what other shops are using out there. If > this is a top better suited to another list, my apologies and any pointers > to a different list would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks > JT

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RE: spamhaus drop list
by Quinn Mahoney 18 Jun '09

18 Jun '09

Is there a competing droplist, that can be compared against Spamhaus's droplist? That seems like an extraordinary claim, so I'm not satisfied with the evidence provided. Is this not the best droplist? -----Original Message----- From: Dean Anderson [mailto:dean@av8.com] Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 6:10 PM To: Quinn Mahoney Cc: nanog(a)nanog.org Subject: Re: spamhaus drop list I suggest you avoid spamhaus, MAPS, and SORBS. They are really spammers in disguise, using blacklists to harm their competition while presumably letting their own spam through. We know they have used trust of the anti-spam community to list-wash spam-trap addresses. See http://www.iadl.org/whitehat/whitehat-story.html add the IADL pages on Paul Vixie and MAPS. You might also look at http://www.av8.net/IETF-watch/People/JohnLevine/index.html Levine, long head of the Anti-spam Research Group, was also unmasked as a spammer. Fred Baker <fred(a)cisco.com> is on the ISC Board of Trustees, and is a Vixie supportor. --Dean On Mon, 15 Jun 2009, Quinn Mahoney wrote: > I'm looking to implement the Spamhaus drop list. > http://www.spamhaus.org/drop/index.lasso > > > > On their FAQ they have a script that looks like it grabs the lists text > file and connects to a given router, and tells you what has changed in > the list, and what your router is null routing. I'm not sure if it then > removes the null routes if a list entry has been removed. I haven't > found much documentation on the net regarding this. In the future it > looks like you will be able to peer with them and null route traffic > from a private AS, which will be routes from the drop list. Right now > though, it looks like you'd have to update an ACL manually for any > changes to the list. Or use this script which null routes the traffic > (I guess it's not a big deal getting the syn packets, as long as the > mail won't send because of the null route). I am not sure if this > script updates the null routes automatically, or how to use it, I can't > find to much documentation. > > > > Any documentation on this script or another script available. What are > your suggestions? > > > > thanks > > > > > > > -- Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service? www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service 617 344 9000

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IGP/BGP design question
by ML 18 Jun '09

18 Jun '09

We have three main cities wherein eyeballs live. Currently we have San Jose and San Francisco traffic egressing in SF, and Los Angeles egressing in LA. There is one private 2x1gig long haul linking SJC to LA and a 1x 10gig linking SJC to SF. i.e SF <-10gig-> SJC <-2gig-> LA Each area is a separate OSPF domain. Static routes define how to reach the RFC1918 space defined for each area. Currently SF and SJC exchange their public blocks in iBGP. There isn't an iBGP session between SF and SJC to LA. We would would like to place our public IP blocks into iBGP with LA and use the 2gig long haul as a backup path for critical traffic destined for the Internet.(Only certain prefixes originated from each egress point will be announced out the opposite egress point; Appropriately locally-pref down inside our common transit ASN) Using only one assigned ASN is this a good idea? Is our IGP setup foobared (I've been mulling around possible changing the IGP design)? I can think of a problem or two this IGP design might cause us but it's a huge change on our part if we do it. The egress points are not DFZs, so if either the 10gig or 2gig link go down the default route can be taken to reach the public blocks in either of the three regions. Thanks

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RE: spamhaus drop list
by Michiel Klaver 18 Jun '09

18 Jun '09

Well, there is always the bogon-list from Team Cymru http://www.cymru.com/Documents/bogon-bn-agg.txt And the bogon-list from BGPmon http://bgpmon.net/showbogons.php?inet=4&global=yes&private=yes Both containing prefixes that should not be announced on the internet, but often used by spammers trying to deliver their content. -------- Original message -------- Subject: RE: spamhaus drop list Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:00:51 -0400 From: Quinn Mahoney <quinn(a)activehost.com> To: <nanog(a)nanog.org> > Is there a competing droplist, that can be compared against > Spamhaus's droplist? That seems like an extraordinary claim, > so I'm not satisfied with the evidence provided. Is this not > the best droplist? -- With kind regards, Michiel Klaver BA.ict GrafiX Internet B.V. Stationsplein 20 2907 MJ Capelle aan den IJssel The Netherlands Web: http://grafix.nl/ Tel: +31-(0)10-2640210 Fax: +31-(0)10-2640211 Providing high-end professional internet services at our privately owned net-neutral in-house Data Center Facilities in Capelle aan den IJssel and Alphen aan den Rijn. Connected at TeleCityRedbus2 (Amsterdam) and Spaanse Kubus (Rotterdam).

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Verio taking twitter down during Iran Election Riots?
by Erik Fichtner 17 Jun '09

17 Jun '09

http://status.twitter.com/post/124145031/maintenance-window-tonight-9-45p-p… Am I reading that right? Is someone at Verio seriously going to take twitter out for 90 minutes at 9am in Tehran?

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Hotmail Postmaster
by Bill Blackford 17 Jun '09

17 Jun '09

Can someone from Hotmail contact me off list? Sorry for the SPAM posting, we've tried other methods. Thanks -b -- Bill Blackford Senior Network Engineer Technology Systems Group Northwest Regional ESD my /home away from home

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[NANOG-announce] change in roles on the program committee
by Todd Underwood 16 Jun '09

16 Jun '09

today, at our lunchtime meeting, the nanog program committee selected a new chair, david meyer of cisco and university of oregon, and a new vice-chair, tom daly of dynamic network services. please join me in cogratulating them in person if you're here at nanog. for the past two years, ren provo has served as vice-chair of the program committee, a role that was basically created specifically for her. she has been critical in the development of the program committee into the open, active, and even somewhat-organized group that it is today. i'm proud to have worked with her on this project for the past two years and am extremely grateful for everything she has done. ren and i decided to resign our positions prior to the october meeting to ensure a smooth transition. we will both continue to serve as members of the program committee through the end of our current terms in october. NANOG has been getting better and better for the last several years. we're announcing locations much earlier and we're continuing to develop and experiment with the content to make it more relevant and more interesting for attendees. credit for these efforts certainly go to members of the steering and mailing list committees and to merit staff, but they also go to the program committee. the nanog program committee is full of some of the smartest, best people that i've ever worked with. it's a pleasure to be associated with them. eight (8) of the slots on the program committee will be opening up this october. if you'd like to work with other interesting people to make the nanog conference better, please consider submitting your name to be considered for one of these slots. the steering committee will announce details, or you can come see almost any member of the PC for more information. again, congratulations to dave and tom. cheers, todd underwood, outgoing chair for the program committee spots opening up in october _______________________________________________ NANOG-announce mailing list NANOG-announce(a)nanog.org http://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog-announce

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