October 2003 - Test - lists.nanog.org

Block all servers?
by Michael.Dillon＠radianz.com 10 Oct '03

10 Oct '03

>I think it's more complicated than "prevent residential users from >hosting servers". You're right. As soon as we begin talking about what all ISPs should do, we are out of the realm of technical solutions and into the realm of psychology and politics. After all, we first have to convince all ISPs that something should be done and we have to demonstrate that there is a way to present the action to customers so that the customers will accept it. Customers generally don't like ISPs to tell them "you can't do this" unless there is a very well reasoned argument attached. I suggest that people should start thinking about ways to incorporate security services into their broadband access products and allow customers the choice of paying for the security services monthly to the ISP or paying up front one time by buying a broadband router. NANOG could help by collecting together some of the technical information about the various broadband routers so that ISPs have an exhaustive and definitive source to refer to. --Michael Dillon P.S. I have always used a router on my Internet connection even when it was only a dialup connection. Back then it was a FreeBSD box running TIS firewalls toolkit. Today it's a Speedstream 510 DSL router.

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The Cidr Report
by cidr-report＠potaroo.net 10 Oct '03

10 Oct '03

This report has been generated at Fri Oct 10 21:48:24 2003 AEST. The report analyses the BGP Routing Table of an AS4637 (Reach) router and generates a report on aggregation potential within the table. Check http://www.cidr-report.org/as4637 for a current version of this report. Recent Table History Date Prefixes CIDR Agg 03-10-03 125747 89436 04-10-03 126580 89388 05-10-03 126497 89489 06-10-03 126591 89487 07-10-03 126458 89568 08-10-03 126764 89635 09-10-03 126859 89610 10-10-03 126906 89738 AS Summary 15899 Number of ASes in routing system 6299 Number of ASes announcing only one prefix 1432 Largest number of prefixes announced by an AS AS701 : ALTERNET-AS UUNET Technologies, Inc. 73481472 Largest address span announced by an AS (/32s) AS568 : SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA Aggregation Summary The algorithm used in this report proposes aggregation only when there is a precise match using the AS path, so as to preserve traffic transit policies. Aggregation is also proposed across non-advertised address space ('holes'). --- 10Oct03 --- ASnum NetsNow NetsAggr NetGain % Gain Description Table 127024 89708 37316 29.4% All ASes AS6198 1214 369 845 69.6% BATI-MIA BellSouth Network Solutions, Inc AS6197 987 277 710 71.9% BATI-ATL BellSouth Network Solutions, Inc AS4323 677 196 481 71.0% TW-COMM Time Warner Communications, Inc. AS701 1432 997 435 30.4% ALTERNET-AS UUNET Technologies, Inc. AS7018 1394 977 417 29.9% ATT-INTERNET4 AT&T WorldNet Services AS7843 532 142 390 73.3% ADELPHIA-AS Adelphia Corp. AS3908 934 554 380 40.7% SUPERNETASBLK SuperNet, Inc. AS22909 299 15 284 95.0% DNEO-OSP1 Comcast Cable Communications, Inc. AS1221 977 694 283 29.0% ASN-TELSTRA Telstra Pty Ltd AS4355 388 106 282 72.7% ERMS-EARTHLNK EARTHLINK, INC AS6347 347 87 260 74.9% DIAMOND SAVVIS Communications Corporation AS1239 928 674 254 27.4% SPRINTLINK Sprint AS22773 289 38 251 86.9% CCINET-2 Cox Communications Inc. Atlanta AS27364 314 70 244 77.7% ACS-INTERNET Armstrong Cable Services AS4134 354 118 236 66.7% CHINANET-BACKBONE No.31,Jin-rong Street AS17676 270 37 233 86.3% GIGAINFRA Softbank BB Corp. AS25844 242 15 227 93.8% SKADDEN1 Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP AS6140 339 123 216 63.7% IMPSAT-USA ImpSat AS209 506 292 214 42.3% ASN-QWEST Qwest AS11305 229 37 192 83.8% INTERLAND-NET1 Interland Incorporated AS4519 183 7 176 96.2% MAAS Maas Communications AS6327 202 27 175 86.6% SHAW Shaw Communications Inc. AS2386 382 208 174 45.5% INS-AS AT&T Data Communications Services AS14654 175 2 173 98.9% WAYPORT Wayport AS2048 252 86 166 65.9% LANET-1 State of Louisiana AS9498 185 21 164 88.6% BBIL-AP BHARTI BT INTERNET LTD. AS705 400 244 156 39.0% ALTERNET-AS UUNET Technologies, Inc. AS9800 203 52 151 74.4% UNICOM CHINA UNICOM AS17557 302 151 151 50.0% PKTELECOM-AS-AP Pakistan Telecom AS9583 234 85 149 63.7% SATYAMNET-AS Satyam Infoway Ltd., Total 15170 6701 8469 55.8% Top 30 total Possible Bogus Routes 24.119.0.0/16 AS11492 CABLEONE CABLE ONE 61.12.32.0/24 AS7545 TPG-INTERNET-AP TPG Internet Pty Ltd 61.12.34.0/24 AS7545 TPG-INTERNET-AP TPG Internet Pty Ltd 64.30.64.0/19 AS14900 USLEC-CORP-1 USLEC Corp. 65.19.128.0/18 AS6939 HURRICANE Hurricane Electric 66.41.192.0/18 AS13367 CCCH-AS3 Comcast Cable Communications Holdings, Inc 66.160.128.0/20 AS6939 HURRICANE Hurricane Electric 132.0.0.0/10 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 137.0.0.0/13 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 138.136.0.0/13 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 140.143.2.0/24 AS1221 ASN-TELSTRA Telstra Pty Ltd 140.240.0.0/13 AS1 GNTY-1 Genuity 142.105.0.0/21 AS19800 GCPUD-ORG Grant County Public UtilityDistrict 142.105.220.0/22 AS3908 SUPERNETASBLK SuperNet, Inc. 142.105.224.0/22 AS3908 SUPERNETASBLK SuperNet, Inc. 142.105.228.0/22 AS3908 SUPERNETASBLK SuperNet, Inc. 142.105.232.0/22 AS3908 SUPERNETASBLK SuperNet, Inc. 158.0.0.0/13 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 165.212.0.0/16 AS7424 USANET USA.Net 166.16.0.0/16 AS7132 SBIS-AS SBC Internet Services - Southwest 192.43.230.0/24 AS4738 SAARDNET-AS South Australian Academic Research and Development Network 192.44.0.0/19 AS702 ALTERNET-AS UUNET Technologies, Inc. 192.83.16.0/20 AS5515 SONERA-GLOBAL-IP Sonera Solution Autonomous System 192.83.32.0/19 AS5515 SONERA-GLOBAL-IP Sonera Solution Autonomous System 192.83.64.0/19 AS5515 SONERA-GLOBAL-IP Sonera Solution Autonomous System 192.83.96.0/22 AS5515 SONERA-GLOBAL-IP Sonera Solution Autonomous System 192.83.100.0/24 AS5515 SONERA-GLOBAL-IP Sonera Solution Autonomous System 192.119.135.0/24 AS270 PSCNI-AS National Aeronautics and Space Administration 192.124.252.0/22 AS680 AS680 DFN-IP service G-WiN 192.135.50.0/24 AS7018 ATT-INTERNET4 AT&T WorldNet Services 192.136.71.0/24 AS719 AS719 LANLINK autonomous system 192.136.79.0/24 AS719 AS719 LANLINK autonomous system 192.153.136.0/21 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 192.153.144.0/21 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 192.172.0.0/19 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 192.188.208.0/20 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 192.243.32.0/23 AS2044 PALIN-AS Palin Aquisitions Inc. 198.23.26.0/24 AS4390 BELLATLANTIC-COM Bell Atlantic, Inc. 198.97.72.0/21 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 198.97.80.0/20 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 198.97.88.0/24 AS89 NUSC-CSTLNET-AS Naval Underwater Systems Center 198.97.192.0/20 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 198.97.240.0/20 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 198.98.8.0/21 AS3701 NERONET Oregon Joint Graduate Schools of Engineering 198.101.4.0/22 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 198.136.32.0/20 AS19329 MCNET Martin County Board of County Commissioners 198.144.32.0/19 AS3998 CITY-NET CityNet, Inc. 198.161.87.0/24 AS6539 GROUPTLCOM GT Group Telecom Services Corp. 198.161.165.0/24 AS852 ASN852 Telus Advanced Communications 198.163.155.0/24 AS684 MBNET-AS Manitoba Regional Network 198.167.0.0/16 AS7456 INTERHOP Interhop Network SERVICES Inc. 198.167.163.0/24 AS15290 ATTCA-15290 AT&T Canada Telecom Services Company 198.168.0.0/16 AS701 ALTERNET-AS UUNET Technologies, Inc. 198.169.0.0/16 AS803 SASKTEL SaskTel 198.232.133.0/24 AS23075 SKOTOS-AS Skotos Tech, Inc 199.10.0.0/16 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 199.60.0.0/20 AS271 BCNET-AS University of British Columbia 199.79.32.0/20 AS3701 NERONET Oregon Joint Graduate Schools of Engineering 199.84.0.0/16 AS701 ALTERNET-AS UUNET Technologies, Inc. 199.114.0.0/18 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 199.114.0.0/21 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 199.114.128.0/18 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 199.114.130.0/24 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS DoD Network Information Center 199.114.132.0/24 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS DoD Network Information Center 199.114.140.0/24 AS3544 ITSDN-U7 DISA/UNRRA 199.114.142.0/24 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS DoD Network Information Center 199.114.144.0/24 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS DoD Network Information Center 199.114.148.0/24 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS DoD Network Information Center 199.114.150.0/24 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS DoD Network Information Center 199.114.152.0/24 AS1913 DLA4 Defense Logistics Agency 199.114.154.0/24 AS1733 CENTAF-SWA AF DDN PMO 199.114.160.0/24 AS1733 CENTAF-SWA AF DDN PMO 199.120.32.0/19 AS16582 NEXTLEVELINTERNET NEXTLEVEL INTERNET, INC. 199.121.0.0/16 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 199.123.0.0/18 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 199.123.16.0/20 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 199.123.80.0/21 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 199.166.18.0/24 AS701 ALTERNET-AS UUNET Technologies, Inc. 199.189.32.0/19 AS7332 IQUEST-AS IQuest Internet 199.202.0.0/16 AS701 ALTERNET-AS UUNET Technologies, Inc. 202.0.180.0/24 AS4058 APNIC-4058 Asia Pacific Network Information Centre 202.3.158.0/24 AS17557 PKTELECOM-AS-AP Pakistan Telecom 202.3.159.0/24 AS17557 PKTELECOM-AS-AP Pakistan Telecom 202.4.252.0/22 AS4808 CHINA169-BJ CNCGROUP IP network¡ªChina169 Beijing Province Network 202.4.255.0/24 AS4799 UNSPECIFIED Ji Tong Communications Co., Ltd. 202.44.112.0/20 AS17458 CWNETDG-IO-AP Cable and Wireless 202.74.32.0/19 AS9315 CWN-AS-AP Chomanan WorldNet Co., Ltd. 202.93.0.0/20 AS4134 CHINANET-BACKBONE No.31,Jin-rong Street 202.93.64.0/19 AS9425 I-NEXT-AS-AP Inter.net Philippines border AS 202.122.76.0/24 AS17553 TIMELESS-AP System Integration provider 202.136.254.0/23 AS4808 CHINA169-BJ CNCGROUP IP network¡ªChina169 Beijing Province Network 202.136.254.0/24 AS4808 CHINA169-BJ CNCGROUP IP network¡ªChina169 Beijing Province Network 202.142.130.0/23 AS17820 DIL-AP DIRECT INTERNET LTD. 202.142.132.0/22 AS17820 DIL-AP DIRECT INTERNET LTD. 202.143.48.0/21 AS4795 INDOSAT2-ID-AP INDOSATNET-ASN 202.143.56.0/21 AS4795 INDOSAT2-ID-AP INDOSATNET-ASN 202.164.192.0/19 AS7599 IPXC-AS-AP IP Exchange 202.165.0.0/19 AS9443 INTERNETPRIMUS-AS-AP Primus Telecommunications 202.179.64.0/24 AS7633 SOFTNET-AS-AP Software Technology Parks of India 202.179.65.0/24 AS7633 SOFTNET-AS-AP Software Technology Parks of India 202.179.66.0/24 AS7633 SOFTNET-AS-AP Software Technology Parks of India 202.179.67.0/24 AS7633 SOFTNET-AS-AP Software Technology Parks of India 202.179.68.0/24 AS7633 SOFTNET-AS-AP Software Technology Parks of India 202.189.234.0/23 AS9658 ETPI-IDS-AS-AP Eastern Telecoms Phils., Inc. 203.10.17.0/24 AS9266 VIPER-AU-AP Vipernet 203.10.18.0/24 AS9266 VIPER-AU-AP Vipernet 203.10.19.0/24 AS9266 VIPER-AU-AP Vipernet 203.10.21.0/24 AS9266 VIPER-AU-AP Vipernet 203.10.22.0/24 AS9266 VIPER-AU-AP Vipernet 203.10.23.0/24 AS9266 VIPER-AU-AP Vipernet 203.32.4.0/23 AS7617 APNIC-AS-2-BLOCK Asia Pacific Network Information Centre 203.62.0.0/17 AS7572 AARNET-ACT-RNO Australian Academic and Reasearch Network (AARNet) 203.76.128.0/24 AS9729 IS-AP iAdvantage Limited 203.76.224.0/24 AS9549 COMDEK-ISP-AS-AP Comdek ISP 203.86.2.0/23 AS4058 APNIC-4058 Asia Pacific Network Information Centre 203.90.192.0/20 AS9658 ETPI-IDS-AS-AP Eastern Telecoms Phils., Inc. 203.129.126.0/24 AS7473 SINGTEL-AS-AP Singapore Telecom 203.129.127.0/24 AS7473 SINGTEL-AS-AP Singapore Telecom 203.132.95.0/24 AS9787 CONCEPT-AU-AP Concept Networks 203.132.97.0/24 AS7652 VIANET-AS-AP Vianet Communications Pty Ltd 203.132.99.0/24 AS7657 TIG-US-PAS-AP The Internet Group Limited 203.132.102.0/24 AS9398 ARACHNET-AS-AP Arachnet 203.132.103.0/24 AS9398 ARACHNET-AS-AP Arachnet 203.132.104.0/24 AS9398 ARACHNET-AS-AP Arachnet 203.132.105.0/24 AS9398 ARACHNET-AS-AP Arachnet 203.132.106.0/24 AS9398 ARACHNET-AS-AP Arachnet 203.132.107.0/24 AS10236 FOXGOLD-NET-AU-AP FOXGOLD COMMUNICATIONS 203.132.108.0/24 AS10236 FOXGOLD-NET-AU-AP FOXGOLD COMMUNICATIONS 203.132.109.0/24 AS10141 CALOUNDRA-AS-AP Caloundra.net 203.132.110.0/24 AS7598 ALPHALINK-AS-AP Alphalink Pty Limited - Melbourne, Australia 203.132.111.0/24 AS10236 FOXGOLD-NET-AU-AP FOXGOLD COMMUNICATIONS 203.132.112.0/24 AS10236 FOXGOLD-NET-AU-AP FOXGOLD COMMUNICATIONS 203.132.118.0/24 AS18065 CENTRALDATA-WA Central Data Pty Ltd. 203.132.122.0/24 AS4802 WANTREE-AS-AP Wantree Development 203.132.123.0/24 AS18065 CENTRALDATA-WA Central Data Pty Ltd. 203.132.124.0/24 AS18065 CENTRALDATA-WA Central Data Pty Ltd. 203.132.125.0/24 AS4817 TECHEX1-AS-AP Techex Primary Netblock 203.135.99.0/24 AS2687 IBM-MMD-AS IBM 203.135.224.0/19 AS4058 APNIC-4058 Asia Pacific Network Information Centre 203.161.39.0/24 AS4768 CLIX-NZ CLEAR Internet Exchange 204.19.224.0/19 AS816 UUNET-AS4 UUNET Technologies, Inc. 204.29.189.0/24 AS3956 TX-METRO Texas Metronet 204.52.232.0/24 AS7177 DFWNET DFW Internet Services, Inc. 204.89.225.0/24 AS2495 KANREN Kansas Research and Education Network 204.154.126.0/24 AS3952 TELLABS-ASN TELLABS Operations, Inc. 204.194.110.0/23 AS10588 ICSNET Intelligent Computer Solutions, Inc 205.150.0.0/15 AS701 ALTERNET-AS UUNET Technologies, Inc. 206.41.32.0/19 AS14824 NEWSOUTH NewSouth Communications Corp. 206.81.187.0/24 AS19194 JOVITA Sentris Network LLC 206.82.64.0/18 AS7029 ALLTELNET Alltel Information Services, Inc. 206.108.34.0/24 AS852 ASN852 Telus Advanced Communications 206.108.35.0/24 AS852 ASN852 Telus Advanced Communications 206.167.57.0/24 AS376 RISQ-AS Reseau Interordinateurs Scientique Quebecois (RISQ) 206.191.64.0/18 AS15290 ATTCA-15290 AT&T Canada Telecom Services Company 206.251.69.0/24 AS27429 TIL Telesat International Ltd. 207.47.39.0/24 AS816 UUNET-AS4 UUNET Technologies, Inc. 207.162.192.0/19 AS4589 EASYNET Easynet Group Plc 207.192.254.0/23 AS7018 ATT-INTERNET4 AT&T WorldNet Services 207.231.96.0/19 AS11194 NUNETPA NuNet Inc 208.65.232.0/23 AS701 ALTERNET-AS UUNET Technologies, Inc. 208.81.187.0/24 AS19194 JOVITA Sentris Network LLC 208.104.103.0/24 AS1239 SPRINTLINK Sprint 209.151.128.0/19 AS816 UUNET-AS4 UUNET Technologies, Inc. 209.169.219.0/24 AS189 GENUITY-AS189 Genuity 209.169.223.0/24 AS189 GENUITY-AS189 Genuity 209.172.0.0/18 AS7770 TRITON Triton Technologies, Inc. 209.213.32.0/19 AS10629 INTERPAC Inter-Pacific Network Services 209.213.50.0/24 AS10629 INTERPAC Inter-Pacific Network Services 209.213.51.0/24 AS10629 INTERPAC Inter-Pacific Network Services 209.213.55.0/24 AS10629 INTERPAC Inter-Pacific Network Services 209.213.56.0/24 AS10629 INTERPAC Inter-Pacific Network Services 209.222.137.0/24 AS27429 TIL Telesat International Ltd. 209.240.96.0/19 AS10815 KCNET KCnet, Inc. 209.251.0.0/19 AS11036 SISCOM SISCOM, Inc 209.251.64.0/19 AS10266 NETWAY-AS MDC, Inc. 210.213.0.0/19 AS6453 TELEGLOBE-AS Teleglobe Inc 216.18.224.0/21 AS11458 IMBRIS IMBRIS, INC. 216.18.224.0/22 AS11458 IMBRIS IMBRIS, INC. 216.18.228.0/22 AS11458 IMBRIS IMBRIS, INC. 216.47.32.0/19 AS11304 SPLUS Solutions Plus Inc. 216.96.128.0/18 AS7018 ATT-INTERNET4 AT&T WorldNet Services 216.226.108.0/22 AS3602 SPRINT-CA-AS Sprint Canada Inc. Please see http://www.cidr-report.org for the full report ------------------------------------ Copies of this report are mailed to: nanog(a)merit.edu eof-list(a)ripe.net apops(a)apops.net routing-wg(a)ripe.net afnog(a)afnog.org

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large-scale IPSEC tunnel deployment
by Alex Yuriev 10 Oct '03

10 Oct '03

Hello, Does anyone have any experience with large scale production IPSEC tunnel deployment, where large scale is defined as over 100 net-to-net tunnels to different destination networks active at any time? If so, would such person(s) mind sharing any quirks/platforms/implementations for more or less automated topology testing/verification? Thanks, Alex

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Re: Wired mag article on spammers playing traceroute games with trojaned boxes
by Michael.Dillon＠radianz.com 10 Oct '03

10 Oct '03

>With all due respect, we have a *problem*. End user machines on >broadband connections are being misconfigured and/or compromised in >frightening numbers. These machines are being used for everything >from IRC flooder to spam engines, to DNS servers to massive DDoS >infrastructure. If the ability of a teenager to launch a gb/s DDoS, >or of someone DoSing mailservers off the internet with a trojan that >contains a spam engine is not operational, perhaps it's just me >that's confused. Why don't you come to the next NANOG in Miami in February and give a presentation on how people are doing these things? The trouble with a mailing list discussion is that it wanders all over the place. But at NANOG you could focus on the network operational issues of these networks of compromised machines. --Michael Dillon

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Re: Wired mag article on spammers playing traceroute games with trojaned boxes
by Michael.Dillon＠radianz.com 10 Oct '03

10 Oct '03

>I mentioned before that it doesn't really make much sense with web >hosting because the port can easily be changed so it's not very effective >at all. Stop thinking of policing the user and start thinking of providing a security service. The default setting of the security service might include a block on port 80 inbound, but if the user needs to enable this traffic, give them a web form that they can use to reconfigure their settings. Or, if you can't handle such a variety of individual ACLs on your equipment, give them the option of buying a broadband router with a recommended default config and un-blocked service. If the user has to intervene in order to enable a server type application to function, that makes it a lot harder for trojan exploits to take hold. --Michael Dillon

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Wired mag article on spammers playing traceroute games with trojaned boxes
by Suresh Ramasubramanian 10 Oct '03

10 Oct '03

http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,60747,00.html -- srs (postmaster|suresh)(a)outblaze.com // gpg : EDEDEFB9 manager, outblaze.com security and antispam operations

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Finding ASN from IP address
by Avleen Vig 10 Oct '03

10 Oct '03

I want to create a mapping of IP addresses to ASN, for a specific like of IP addresses. Eg: 1.2.3.4 12.34.56.78 etc, gathered from my system logs. What is the best way of doing this? I thought about something along the lines of: install routing software (zebra?) pass software the IP's, get it to spit back a string from which I can grab the ASN Two problems being I don't know which software to install that can do that, or where to get a copy of the current routing table, so that I can feed that to the software. Suggestions appreciated. -- Avleen Vig Systems Administrator Personal: www.silverwraith.com EFnet: irc.mindspring.com

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Re: Wired mag article on spammers playing traceroute games with trojaned boxes
by Dr. Jeffrey Race 09 Oct '03

09 Oct '03

On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:40:35 -0400, John Capo wrote: > I spent >the rest of the day googleing for case law that might be applied >to the network operators providing connectivity to the trojaned >boxes being used for illegal activities, identity theft. Didn't >accomplish much except wasting the day. This is a trivial legal exercise and I remain surprised the infamous "plaintiff's bar" has not started suing these scum. Some of the obviously relevant legal bases are negligent enablement, unjust enrichment, attractive nuisance. Talk to any lawyer; he'll tell you. I am sure there are BIG BIG damages to be had for a little litigation. Jeffrey Race

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Is there anything that actually gets users to fix their computers?
by Sean Donelan 09 Oct '03

09 Oct '03

Short of turning off their network access, why won't users fix their computers when the computer is infected or needs a patch? The University of Massachusetts posted bulletins, sent an email to all incoming students, included an alert when they connected. Nevertheless, almost three months after Microsoft released the critical patch and almost two months after the first Blaster worm was released over 1,600 students failed to patched their computers. Eventually, the University started shutting off network access for the students and charging $3 for the CD with the patch and $25/hour for support to clean the student's computers. http://www.dailycollegian.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2003/10/03/3f7cfeb12c8c2 "Some students told the staff that they thought the University gave their systems a virus. "By no means was this a UMass internet problem," said Fairey. "People were probably infected before they got to campus." One student threatened to sue OIT, arguing that the offices did not have the right to turn off her port. "We have policies that clearly state our right to shut off systems," mentioned Fairey. "It's not something that we want to do. It's a nightmare."

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Re: Finding clue at comcast.net
by Howard C. Berkowitz 09 Oct '03

09 Oct '03

>----- Original Message ----- >From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" <hcb(a)gettcomm.com> >To: <nanog(a)merit.org> >Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 11:20 AM >Subject: RE: Finding clue at comcast.net > > >> >> At 9:29 AM -0500 10/9/03, Austad, Jay wrote: >> >Comcast's phone support department is the *worst*, WORST, I've ever dealt >> >with. I think they are outsourced, they have to go by a script, and many >of >> >them probably hardly know what a computer even is. Once I called because >of >> >a problem on their network, and I told the person on the phone that there >> >was a problem on their network, and I pinned it down to a couple of >routers >> >where the problem may be, and she responded, very sternly, "Sir, WE DON'T >> >HAVE ANY ROUTERS" >> >> Same thing here. Last night, I was told that no escalation personnel >> were available. >* Depending on how big a company is or how the outsourcing company staffs at >night this can be true. No escalation personnel may be physically present, >but this doesn't mean there isn't someone they can call. An outsourcing >companies call center agents have to first decide (policy?) that the issue >warrants escalation, and then they probably have to call THEIR manager (of >the outsourcing company). This manager then gets to decide if it REALLY >warrants escalation to their client (the cable company). They don't want to >call them after-hours unneccesarily. And cable companies are used to having >24-hours to resolve most outages, and if it doesn't affect a LOT of their >customers it isn't considered an outage worth escalating. A real world >example is: 6 calls in one cable node with the problem persisting for 15 to >30 minutes (calls keep coming in) would be a case for an on-call technician >to be called. Anything less just gets Service Calls placed in CableMaster on >AS/400. These things can wait for a scheduled (all-day) appointment unless >the customer insists on a time-frame. *sigh* Y'know, I could live with it if I could even have a mailbox to which I could send detailed trouble reports, even if no one looked at them on the next day. While their routing seems to be fairly stable these days, there would be times I'd traceroute from several sites I could reach and take views from multiple looking glasses, giving me a pretty fair idea where, and even what, the problem is. The customer disservice people that really drive me nuts are the first-levels that believe they are NEVER wrong. If you say there's an IP routing problem, they may say "how do you know there's a problem with our ippp(rhymes with pip)?" "We don't support SMTP or POP3. You have to use Outlook.." "You must remove your firewall and router so we can troubleshoot." "It's irrelevant that you can ping the access router. It must be your modem. Go to the local office and exchange it." "I'm sure the problem will be resolved, so there's no reason to give you a trouble ticket" "b'gop? bajop? We don't support bee-gee-pee in our network." "access router? We just have Windows servers." > >* Exactly what I described above. But I wouldn't accept "hopefully somebody >would respond". That is NOT acceptable. Someone should respond within 1 >business day at most. Again your not going to find many on-call or >higher-level support reading email after-hours and responding to things. >Even I couldn't do it ALL of the time. And I was the only one doing that in >a local cable company (not a national company) with 2 cities. I'd be happy, again, if they'd let me give them a trouble ticket. Oh, they have told me at times that I could do that at their website, which is an interesting problem when you don't have connectivity. I'd gladly pay extra for dial backup at low speed, but they don't offer that. > >> >> At the time, I was paying for their "Pro" service, intermediate >> between regular residential and full business. My contact said that >> while that was supposed to get better customer support, an early plan >> to route it to business Comcast failed, and there really was NO > > separate Pro support organization. I dropped the Pro service after I >> learned that residential service no longer insisted you remove any >> local routers and firewalls before deigning to troubleshoot. They >> still ask you to do that, but repeated NO responses can get them to >> proceed. >* Pro services, where I was working, gets escalated like the above >description I wrote. If you are not completely down you're probably not >going to see something done about it until the next business day (assuming >after-hours). They treated completely-down situations like that. > >> >> A few NANOGs back (Atlanta), I did a presentation on customer >> satisfaction, which, frankly, was in many respects a case study of >> how I'd reform customer support at my then ISP/DSL, cais.net. If >> NANOG ever did formal documents, I'd like to see a guideline on how >> to run customer support. >* I saw you powerpoint and I liked it. > >> >> > >> >In any case, if you manage to get the call escalated a couple of times >> >(after lying about rebooting your computer 47 times), >> >> You forgot reinstalling Windows. On a Mac. >> >* Typicall front line support (should) be able to figure out if you are >reporting a problem with your connection, e.g. your cable modem is not >"acquired" or you have no IP connectivity or DNS resolution, or if you are >reporting something else that needs escalation to a higher level of support >(or to the cable company on-call). Again the rules of engagement I described >above about number of calls on one cable node and how long it has been down >(need 15-30 minutes). [Some things in outside plant reset themselves >automatically]. > >A lot of cable companies are likely new to providing PRO services. Also >remember a lot of cable companies just recently took the ISP infrastructure >in-house after having outsourced for many years to companies like >Excite@Home and ISPChannel. Also some of these outsourced call centers >surely don't have the ISP support background they need. The one I was at, >wether they'd admit it or not, learned a lot from me. I came from small ISP >dial-up support where I was everything as well as working at a Latin >American Countries ISP aggregator. So I wasn't made from the same mold as >many of these newer personnel you will come across. Things may have to >escalate to a pretty high level to find someone with the kind of clue to >have dealt with knowledgeable customers ... especially Internet Core NSP >persons. A few times, mostly at 2nd level, someone recognizes my name from one of my books -- and gets helpful. Indeed, in some of those trouble calls, they set up a conference call and I did some tutorials.

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