February 2001 - Test - lists.nanog.org

Re: Beer and Gear surprise
by Danny McPherson 22 Feb '01

22 Feb '01

> 1) What does Merit do for Nanog? Umm, pretty much everything .. unless I've missed something. > 2) What gives Merit the right to make decisions about the group > without consulting the membership? Oh, I don't know, perhaps it has something to do with the fact that they organize the whole thing and most of us would rather not be bothered with the details anyway. > 3) If Merit is not listening to it's membership, and is only providing the > web page and mailing list, is there a reason why they are still hosting > NANOG? Nope, not at all. Why not host your own? > 1) The NANOG Charter needs to be revised into a more inclusive charter > which includes the resolution of conflicts within the membership, review of > the officials actions by the membership and removal of officials by the > membership in the event that the actions are in conflict with the membership > or charter. There should also be included, in the charter, how to revise > and amend the charter. In this option, Merit would still be the ruling > body. Dude, get over it... > 2) Remove Merit from the ruling body. There is no reason, today, that the > web site and mailing list could not be hosted by someone else. I do not > believe that Merit is doing a bad job, but there isn't that much work > involved in providing this service. The charter states that meetings are to > be organized by the hosting company. I don't see a reason why this could > not continue. The charter will still need to be resizes, however to include > the items from option 1 Again, please, go setup your own. Give away bloomers, create a bunch of rules, have your way with it... > 3) Continue to live under the rule of a ruling body that does not consult > of inform it's membership or decisions that affect the membership and > meetings. Jeez... > I don't want to play politics, but I think something needs to be done. Oh, you don't want to play politics but you're certain we need more politics. Actually, you know, perhaps that would be good. Then the membership could vote to tell you that you've been heard, now it's time to shut up. -danny

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Re: Beer and Gear surprise
by Ukyo Kuonji 22 Feb '01

22 Feb '01

I disagree. The charter defines membership: "The group will have membership that broadly includes network providers. These may include private, public, federal, commercial or other networks that consider themselves providers of Internet services. However the representatives attending this group should be prepared to engage in technical discussions. Membership should not be limited to North American participants though the general focus of the discussion should be from the NA networking point of view." --- Opinions in this email are the personal opinions of the author and are not associated with author's employer. This email account is a not the regular email account of the author and is being used for the protection of the employer. ----Original Message Follows---- From: owen(a)dixon.delong.sj.ca.us (Owen DeLong) To: nanog(a)merit.edu, kawaii_iinazuke(a)hotmail.com Subject: Re: Beer and Gear surprise Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:40:45 -0800 <fact> There is no NANOG membership. There is the NANOG community. There are no firm criteria for citizenship in said community, so it would be difficult to define a voting process in terms of who does or does not get to vote. </fact> Owen _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

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Re: Network for Sale
by Paul A Vixie 22 Feb '01

22 Feb '01

> > RTT doesn't drive performance, (bw*delay)-loss does. > > FWIW, the heavily interactive apps are more affected by RTT than they are > by bandwidth. Network games are the new TELNET. They despise varying > latency levels, and are generally oblivious to bandwidth. Your point is > still mostly valid, in that the only thing they hate more than varying > latency is packet loss, but if the network isn't losing packets then RTT > does affect "perfomance" for the heavily interactive apps. i wasn't talking about network performance in general. (and i would never, ever recommend (bw*delay)-loss as a routing metric!) this is in the context of so-called global server load balancing. RTT may, or may not, matter in the decisions such a system must make ("serve this client from which proxy?")

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Big Brother fights back
by David Lesher 22 Feb '01

22 Feb '01

Tired of listening to all the gossip; Big Brother in the guise of Fairfax County VA cut a phone cable....while installing more red-light cameras. Word is, 5000+ subscribers are now not talking to anyone. -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz(a)nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

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[MAIL-SA@syndesis.com: ScanMail Message: To Sender, sensitive content found and action t aken.]
by Shawn McMahon 22 Feb '01

22 Feb '01

Ok, somebody needs to direct their email support people to get a life. I got the following bounceback for saying "piss off" in that email. I'm sure I'll get another from this one. ----- Forwarded message from System Attendant <MAIL-SA(a)syndesis.com> ----- From: System Attendant <MAIL-SA(a)syndesis.com> To: "'Shawn McMahon'" <smcmahon(a)eiv.com> Subject: ScanMail Message: To Sender, sensitive content found and action t aken. Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 08:54:00 -0500 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) X-UIDL: :Og!!)%`!!o]W"!`Sm!! Trend SMEX Content Filter has detected sensitive content. Place = nanog(a)merit.edu; ; Sender = Shawn McMahon Subject = Re: Beer and Gear surprise Delivery Time = February 22, 2001 (Thursday) 08:53:59 Policy = Dirty Words Action on this mail = Quarantine message Warning message from administrator: Sender, Content filter has detected a sensitive e-mail. ----- End forwarded message -----

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Re: Beer and Gear surprise
by Ukyo Kuonji 22 Feb '01

22 Feb '01

I, for one, HAVE organized a conference, and a rally. I know of the hard, often thankless, work that it takes to put together a successful conference. If a NANOG meeting ever came to my town (which I would love for my company to host), I would gladly volunteer to pitch in. Unfortunately, there isn't much to do or see in this town, so I suspect that it wouldn't be a highly attended conference. I appreciate the hard work that everyone did to put on what I would consider another successful NANOG. I certainly enjoyed it, and will continue to go to additional meetings, even if there is no "gear". I only have an issue of expecting one thing, and getting quite another, without warning or knowing about the true reason why. It's like going to McDonalds to get a meal and finding out your Big Mac is on a regular bun instead of the sesame seed bun because the guy that cleaned the restrooms took offence to all the seeds in the toilet. Think of the people that went to NANOG like your kids. You go get them a Happy Meal only to find out that there is no surprise inside. Your kids still get to eat, and that was the important thing, but are still disappointed that they didn't get their toy. UK --- Opinions in this email are the personal opinions of the author and are not associated with author's employer. This email account is a not the regular email account of the author and is being used for the protection of the employer. On Wed, Feb 21, Vijay wrote: The Merit people spend an incredible amount of time and effort doing this conference so we (the spoiled brats) can get together face to face and discuss our day jobs and instead of thanking them, we're whining up a storm over some pieces of schwag? Running something this large and running it this well is _hard_, folks. If we had some ham, we could have a ham and cheese sandwich if we had some cheese. /vijay _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

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Re: Beer and Gear surprise
by Hank Nussbacher 22 Feb '01

22 Feb '01

At 22:04 21/02/01 -0500, Daniel L. Golding wrote: >There is an easy solution here. If folks are really incensed about the >lack of vendor goodies and/or the level of excitement on certain panels, >they can: > >1) Volunteer to speak at future NANOG meetings on stuff they feel is more >exciting > >2) Provide feedback on the survey > >3) Buy Merit and run it themselves Just the 35.0.0.0/8 alone should be worth about $1b. :-) -Hank >4) Turn NANOG into a membership organization run by an elected board. > >I suggest #1 and #2. If you have lots of money, you could always try >#3. #4 is intrigueing, but I doubt the collective will to accomplish it, >particularly as this issue is a dearth of vendor supplied undergarments, >which, while tragic, is not exactly the sort of cause that folks would >rally around. > >Daniel Golding NetRail,Inc. >"Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness" > >On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, John M . Brown wrote: > > > > > Yes, a specific single person at MERIT found the boxer shourts > > offensive. In talking with many other people at that NANOG, > > both male and female, they didn't find the shorts offensive and > > infact where sought after. > > > > Thus a "gray market" in cisco shorts was created, preventing Cisco > > from taking it in the "shorts". > > > > If that has now grown to "vendors can't give anything" out, then > > its a SAD SAD SAD DAY. > > > > I certainly hope those at MERIT will help educate the power to be.. > > > > NANOG now has gone Corporate, In fact I am surprised MERIT is sponsoring > > Beer, I mean someone could get tipsy and have an accident (other > > than dropping there shorts). > > > > It reminds me of those start-ups that have beer thirty on the back > > loading dock on fridays. They grow, people enjoy hanging out, working > > hard and having some fun. > > > > Then one day someone decides its not "the right image, or something" > > and the friday 4:30 parties are killed. Its the dawn of Corporate > > Image and RED TAPE. > > > > I seriously hope NANOG doesn't go that way. > > > > I mention no names, as to protect the stuffy and the guilty. > > > > jmbrown > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 21, 2001 at 01:13:50AM -0500, Adam Rothschild wrote: > > > > > > [ Warning: this message is void of any operational content. ] > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 20, 2001 at 11:36:55PM -0600, Ukyo Kuonji wrote: > > > > Did I miss some discussion about the Beer and Gear surprise? I, > > > > personally, feel somewhat cheated that there was no "gear" available > > > > from the vendors in attendance. > > > > > > <rumor> > > > > > > Sponsors were specifically asked _not_ to give out clothing, as the > > > Cisco boxer shorts distributed at NANOG 20 were somehow deemed > > > offensive and discriminatory. > > > > > > </rumor> > > > > > > Don't get me wrong, Beer and Gear was definitely time well spent, I > > > just found the "gear" aspect (assuming that's in reference to > > > freebies, not hardware demonstrated by vendors) a bit lacking. ;) > > > > > > Long live free vendorware. > > > > > > -adam > > > > >

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Access Control
by Smith, Rick 22 Feb '01

22 Feb '01

Does anyone use Proximity sensors to allow a magnetic keycard to unlock the doors of their facilities ? If so, what brand ? What software do you run behind it ? Will it work with Windows 2000 Domain controllers to provide seamless entry / exit across a nationwide network ? Thanks, Rick Smith Director of Technical Services Applied Tactical Systems (A division of Vertex Interactive, Inc.) http://www.atsworld.com --- http://www.vertexinteractive.com (973) 808 - 1750 x382

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Re: Beer and Gear surprise
by owen＠dixon.delong.sj.ca.us 22 Feb '01

22 Feb '01

> > > In talking with many other people at that NANOG, > > both male and female, they didn't find the shorts offensive and > > infact where sought after. > > zoc-int-brk01#shorts? > % Unrecognized command > > John, _I_ found it offensive. When I need underwear, I damned well go to > a department store. I don't go looking for them at a conference. If > you're at a conference looking for underwear rather than hoping to > exchange clue, I'd suggest you're there for the wrong reason. > > -Bill > > > > A conference... I'm not sure about that. _THE_ NANOG conference is definitely the wrong venue for "Looking" for underwear. But as I understand it, there has been a long tradition of Internet-arranged conferences that resulted in the exchange of underwear/etc. We now return you to your regularly scheduled program. This was not the email you were looking for. Move along. Move along. Owen

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Re: Beer and Gear surprise
by owen＠dixon.delong.sj.ca.us 22 Feb '01

22 Feb '01

> I AM a little concerned if this was a decision made by Merit. Last I knew, > this was a NANOG meeting, not a Merit meeting. I do not believe that Merit > should be making a decision of this nature without the direct input of the > NANOG membership. If I missed this in October or November, I apologize. > <fact> There is no NANOG membership. There is the NANOG community. There are no firm criteria for citizenship in said community, so it would be difficult to define a voting process in terms of who does or does not get to vote. </fact> Owen > --- > Opinions in this email are the personal opinions of the author and are not > associated with author's employer. This email account is a not the regular > email account of the author and is being used for the protection of the > employer. > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: Stephen Stuart <stuart(a)mfnx.net> > To: Adam Rothschild <asr(a)latency.net> > CC: Ukyo Kuonji <kawaii_iinazuke(a)hotmail.com>, nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: Re: Beer and Gear surprise > Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 02:43:34 -0800 > > > <rumor> > > > > Sponsors were specifically asked _not_ to give out clothing, as the > > Cisco boxer shorts distributed at NANOG 20 were somehow deemed > > offensive and discriminatory. > > > > </rumor> > > <fact> > > At NANOG 20, there was a mad rush from the meeting room before > technical talks were over for the day to get to the Beer and Gear to > suck up all the vendor trinkets. This was perceived as being > astoundingly disrespectful to the people who take the time to put > together a presentation and deliver it. > > </fact> > > Stephen > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > >

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