February 2001 - Test - lists.nanog.org

Re: Network for Sale
by Richard A. Steenbergen 21 Feb '01

21 Feb '01

On Wed, Feb 21, 2001 at 12:28:20PM -0800, Paul A Vixie wrote: > > >> Oh god, I hope not. RTT has never been an accurate predictor of end-to-end > >> performance. (Just ask anyone who bought into ping-based global server load > >> balancing.) ASPATH length is almost as bad (as a predictor) as RTT. > > > > well, it's the way icmp_echo is handeld in some vendor routers and > > sometime also the poor implementation of an IP stack on the echoing > > device which is a problem. > > no, that is not the problem. oh i admit that ping time jitter is > ~random. but even if it weren't, RTT doesn't drive performance, > (bw*delay)-loss does. Delay (in non-obscene amounts) can be overcome, loss cannot. Loss is especially bad when you are overcoming delay with a large window of packets inflight, even more so without SACK. Designing a network to please the "traceroute happy" customer will probably not make anything better by itself. Assuming your goal is to actually push packets, loss should be eliminated first before RTT becomes an issue. Lack of bandwidth is the cause, loss is the symptom. This is of course assuming that TCP thruput is your goal, which may be completely not the case. -- Richard A Steenbergen <ras(a)e-gerbil.net> http://www.e-gerbil.net/ras PGP Key ID: 0x138EA177 (67 29 D7 BC E8 18 3E DA B2 46 B3 D8 14 36 FE B6)

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Re: Beer and Gear surprise
by Ukyo Kuonji 21 Feb '01

21 Feb '01

I was at NANOG 20, and I seem to remember that the technical talks were over a good 20-30 minutes before Beer and Gear. If people were leaving the talks early, I'm sure it was not the fault of the vendors. I certainly don't think that people should have been offended by it. As far as being "sexist", I know more women that wear boxers than men. I don't see this as being a discrimination or sexist action. It was intended as a joke by Cisco, and I thought it was a pretty good joke. I am still amazed how thin skinned people in the US can be, even though I've lived here all my life. I don't want anyone to think that I didn't enjoy the meeting. I certainly did enjoy it. I even learned a few new things, and got a lot of good validation for things I were already thinking about. Yes, this is the real reason we all go to NANOG, and the reason we read the mailing list. I feel that the vendors were cheated a little. I saw a lot of attendees in the beer and gear that were talking amongst themselves and ignoring the vendors. At least with a few freebees, the vendors have a chance to attract a few of those people. I AM a little concerned if this was a decision made by Merit. Last I knew, this was a NANOG meeting, not a Merit meeting. I do not believe that Merit should be making a decision of this nature without the direct input of the NANOG membership. If I missed this in October or November, I apologize. --- Opinions in this email are the personal opinions of the author and are not associated with author's employer. This email account is a not the regular email account of the author and is being used for the protection of the employer. ----Original Message Follows---- From: Stephen Stuart <stuart(a)mfnx.net> To: Adam Rothschild <asr(a)latency.net> CC: Ukyo Kuonji <kawaii_iinazuke(a)hotmail.com>, nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: Re: Beer and Gear surprise Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 02:43:34 -0800 > <rumor> > > Sponsors were specifically asked _not_ to give out clothing, as the > Cisco boxer shorts distributed at NANOG 20 were somehow deemed > offensive and discriminatory. > > </rumor> <fact> At NANOG 20, there was a mad rush from the meeting room before technical talks were over for the day to get to the Beer and Gear to suck up all the vendor trinkets. This was perceived as being astoundingly disrespectful to the people who take the time to put together a presentation and deliver it. </fact> Stephen _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

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RE: RE: Monitoring/Trending Software -- Which Package(s) do y
by Berger, Gary 21 Feb '01

21 Feb '01

NNM is a great framework tool ( something other point tools plug into) but its data collection engine is lousy. You are better off with mrtg and rrd as a back in.. -----Original Message----- From: CARL P HIRSCH [mailto:CARL.P.HIRSCH@slchicago.infonet.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 6:30 AM Cc: nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: Re:RE: Monitoring/Trending Software -- Which Package(s) do y Just curious, Would HP's Openview Network Node Manager be suitable for this application? I evaluated NNM some time ago but found it rather bloated and I figured that it would really only be truly useful in an HP-UX environment where NNM could integrate with all the other Openview components. One thing I found appealing is that NNM sits on an Oracle backend (according to the marketroids, anyhow), meaning that you could run reports till the cows came home. I've always been told that trend analysis is where OpenView Network Node Manager shines. Plus, it's Fully Buzzword Compliant. Every IT manager's eyes light up when they hear "OpenView", but is it really useful in a real-world scenario? For network monitoring, I've actually grown to really like IpSwitch Software's WhatsUp Gold. I wrote it off for a long time but grudgingly tried it out during a time crunch and was pretty impressed. It's bare-bones, and NT-only, but it's so durn easy to get up and running with it in a pinch. It handles ICMP, SNMP, and RMON with threshold alerts. I'm thinking it supports a wide variety of MIBs. I found its reporting a bit lacking, though. It probably would be more or less useless for trend analysis. I'm sure I'd get more out of MRTG is I was more comfortable with Perl. One of my projects has been to investigate monitoring/trending solutions under Linux/*BSD. Apparently somebody just created a Debian distribution for net telemetry collection. I haven't found much under Linux for RMON yet, and there certainly doesn't appear to be anything like a free full-featured monitoring/trending suite out there. Any suggestions? -carl hirsch network analyst sargent & lundy llc chicago 60603 ____________________Reply Separator____________________ Subject: RE: Monitoring/Trending Software -- Which Package(s) do you Author: owner-nanog-outgoing(a)merit.edu Date: 2/21/01 9:45 AM Actually you probably need to look at VitalNet.. This is a competing product to Concorde NetHealth... -----Original Message----- From: John Starta [mailto:john@starta.org] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:23 PM To: Lee Watterworth Lucent's VitalSuite (either SP or Enterprise) software is definitely worth a look. You can find detailed information about it on their web site: http://www.lucentnps.com/software/ jas At 05:44 PM 2/20/01 -0500, Lee Watterworth wrote: >I have been handed the task of finding a monitoring/trending package for >our network and systems. > >I will be looking at the package's collection mechanism for flexibility >(snmp gets, traps, rmon), and the variety/configurability of the reports >it can produce. The package should be able to provide (configurable) >alerts when threshholds are met/surpassed. > >I have been evaluating Concord's eHealth Suite, and would like to evaluate >other options before I commit to a particular package. > >Any feedback would be great. > >-Lee.

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Re: Beer and Gear surprise
by Ukyo Kuonji 21 Feb '01

21 Feb '01

I certainly enjoyed The Juniper booth at NANOG 20. I feel that it is important for vendors to bring some of their equipment to the meeting and especially think it's neat if the equipment is doing something. I feel fortunate enough to work for a company that will fly me the vendor HQ to get an in-depth look at the hardware we are doing evaluation on, but not every company is as flush as mine, and not everyone gets the same luxuries. Having the equipment at a meeting like nanog is a good place to get to the people that will actually see and use the equipment. The other "cons" are more apt to draw people that fulfill other purposes. I certainly like to discuss the vendor's boxes, and tend to do so at the meetings, but it would be nice to walk away with a pen, or screwdriver or shirt. It's a benefit to the vendor as well. Not only do people have to get close enough to grab a shirt, they also end up wearing the shirt and keeps the vendor on their mind. I certainly want to thank all the vendors that lugged their boxes to NANOG for us to look at. It IS hard work, but it is good to have something physical to point at when talking about it. --- Opinions in this email are the personal opinions of the author and are not associated with author's employer. This email account is a not the regular email account of the author and is being used for the protection of the employer. ----Original Message Follows---- From: Aviva Garrett <aviva(a)juniper.net> To: "Ukyo Kuonji" <kawaii_iinazuke(a)hotmail.com> CC: nanog(a)merit.edu, aviva(a)juniper.net Subject: Re: Beer and Gear surprise Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:43:53 -0800 In message <F29SkPbbCRRSAKhcRA20001f363(a)hotmail.com>you write: > > Did I miss some discussion about the Beer and Gear surprise? I, personally, > feel somewhat cheated that there was no "gear" available from the vendors in > attendance. > We brought a lot of gear at the last NANOG, and that was a lot of work. Routers, even little ones, are heavy and don't make good carry-on luggage. If people think it's useful for us to bring some gear every meeting or every other meeting, let me know privately what you might like to see in the way of boxes and PICs and maybe engineering folk, and I'll see what I can dig up. On the issue of freebies, I don't know whether people left the talks early at NANOG 20 or not, because I was busy setting up Beer 'n Gear, but I did make sure to bring 550 of the important freebies (t-shirts). Thanks, ..Aviva ---------------------- Aviva Garrett Technical Publications Juniper Networks, Inc. (408) 745-2077 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

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Re: Beer and Gear surprise
by Aviva Garrett 21 Feb '01

21 Feb '01

In message <F29SkPbbCRRSAKhcRA20001f363(a)hotmail.com>you write: > > Did I miss some discussion about the Beer and Gear surprise? I, personally, > feel somewhat cheated that there was no "gear" available from the vendors in > attendance. > We brought a lot of gear at the last NANOG, and that was a lot of work. Routers, even little ones, are heavy and don't make good carry-on luggage. If people think it's useful for us to bring some gear every meeting or every other meeting, let me know privately what you might like to see in the way of boxes and PICs and maybe engineering folk, and I'll see what I can dig up. On the issue of freebies, I don't know whether people left the talks early at NANOG 20 or not, because I was busy setting up Beer 'n Gear, but I did make sure to bring 550 of the important freebies (t-shirts). Thanks, ..Aviva ---------------------- Aviva Garrett Technical Publications Juniper Networks, Inc. (408) 745-2077

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RE: Monitoring/Trending Software -- Which Package(s) do you use?
by Berger, Gary 21 Feb '01

21 Feb '01

Actually you probably need to look at VitalNet.. This is a competing product to Concorde NetHealth... It provides all the RMON2 and MIB polling and can be setup with thresholds... Depending on what you are looking for you may still want to look at mrtg and rrd which can poll mib devices as well as execute scripts based on min/masx thresholds. -G Gary Berger Internal Consultant, Principal Dow Jones & Company Enterprise Network Services -----Original Message----- From: John Starta [mailto:john@starta.org] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:23 PM To: Lee Watterworth Cc: 'nanog(a)merit.edu' Subject: Re: Monitoring/Trending Software -- Which Package(s) do you use? Lee, Lucent's VitalSuite (either SP or Enterprise) software is definitely worth a look. You can find detailed information about it on their web site: http://www.lucentnps.com/software/ jas At 05:44 PM 2/20/01 -0500, Lee Watterworth wrote: >I have been handed the task of finding a monitoring/trending package for >our network and systems. > >I will be looking at the package's collection mechanism for flexibility >(snmp gets, traps, rmon), and the variety/configurability of the reports >it can produce. The package should be able to provide (configurable) >alerts when threshholds are met/surpassed. > >I have been evaluating Concord's eHealth Suite, and would like to evaluate >other options before I commit to a particular package. > >Any feedback would be great. > >-Lee.

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RE: Beer and Gear surprise
by Mark Borchers 21 Feb '01

21 Feb '01

Anybody who has been to other NANOGs should have a lifetime supply of t-shirts by now. Technically, I think "gear" is a reference to network hardware. > I, personally, feel somewhat cheated that there was no "gear" > available from the vendors in attendance.

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e-mail delivery problems
by Joe Arnstein 21 Feb '01

21 Feb '01

Hello, When one of my sites sends messages with certain attachments, communication between the client and the mailserver freezes up, and I am having trouble pinpointing the source. The problem brings up some other questions I have about extended SMTP transmissions that aren't spelled out in RFC 1869. When users at a remote site ("BadSite") try to send mail with certain attachments through our server (or any other server for that matter), the connection gets dropped mid transmission. I notice in the verbose sendmail logs that an ehlo is given, headers are sent, then the mime encoded MSWord doc starts to go through, but in the middle of the transmission the client appears to just sit until the connection times out. We get a "read error" in Sendmail, and a time-out error in Outlook. The same thing happens when using 'mutt' in Linux. Things I've noticed: * Problem is isolated to BadSite...They cannot send these attachments through my server, or anyone else's for that matter. * Some attachments go through just fine... .jpg, .pdf, .bmp and .txt work OK. If you change the extension of a good file to .doc, it goes through just fine (it's not like the extension alone is causing the problem). :) * An EHLO is given when sending files like .doc and others that FAIL, while HELO is offered every time the good files go through. ESMTP connections from any other lan work fine on my server. Mail clients at BadSite range from MSOutlook on NT, to mutt on Linux boxes. We have a Cisco router with no access-lists on it and no firewall. Is this a problem with the type of transmission (ESMTP vs SMTP)? Encapsulation? It doesn't seem like a server problem, but I was told it couldn't possibly be a router problem....not sure where to go from here. Another question: What determines whether a client sends EHLO or HELO? Thanks for your input! Joe Arnstein <clips from logs follow> 28803 >>> 220 mail.mymailserver.com ESMTP 28803 <<< EHLO client.mylan.com 28803 >>> 250-mail.mymailserver.com Hello client.mylan.com [63.75.xx.xxx], pleased to meet you 28803 >>> 250-8BITMIME 28803 >>> 250-SIZE 28803 >>> 250-DSN 28803 >>> 250-ONEX 28803 >>> 250-XUSR 28803 >>> 250 HELP 28803 <<< MAIL From:<root(a)client.mylan.com> SIZE=15045 28804 >>> 250 <root(a)client.mylan.com>... Sender ok 28804 <<< RCPT To:<whomever(a)anydomain.com> 28804 >>> 250 <whoever(a)anydomain.com>... Recipient ok 28804 <<< DATA 28804 >>> 354 Enter mail, end with "." on a line by itself 28804 <<< Received: (from root@localhost) 28804 <<< by client.mylan.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12375 28804 <<< for whomever(a)anydomain.com; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:52:35 -0500 28804 <<< Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:52:35 -0500 28804 <<< From: localuser <root(a)client.mylan.com> 28804 <<< To: whomever(a)anydomain.com 28804 <<< Subject: here we go again 28804 <<< Message-ID: <20010220155235.A12365(a)client.mylan.com> 28804 <<< Mime-Version: 1.0 28804 <<< Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1" 28804 <<< X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us 28804 <<< 28804 <<< 28804 <<< --n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1 28804 <<< Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 28804 <<< 28804 <<< content of message.... 28804 <<< 28804 <<< --n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1 28804 <<< Content-Type: application/msword 28804 <<< Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Document.doc" 28804 <<< Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 28804 <<< 28804 <<< 0M8R4KGxGuEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPgADAP7/CQAGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAEQAAAAAA 28804 <<< AAAAEAAAEgAAAAEAAAD+////AAAAABAAAAD///////////////////////////////////// 28804 <<< //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 28804 <<< //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 28804 <<< //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 28804 <<< //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 28804 <<< //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 28804 <<< //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 28804 <<< //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 28804 <<< ///////////////////////////////////spcAARQAJBAAAABK/AAAAAAAAEgAAAAAABAAA 28804 <<< AQQAAA4AYmpiakLgQuAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAJBBYAHgwAACCKAQAgigEAAQAAAAAA 28804 <<< AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD//w8AAAAAAAAAAAD//w8AAAAAAAAAAAD//w8A 28804 <<< AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAF0AAAAAAFwBAAAAAAAAXAEAAFwBAAAAAAAAXAEAAAAAAABcAQAA 28804 <<< AAAAAFwBAAAAAAAAXAEAABQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHABAAAAAAAAcAEAAAAAAABwAQAAAAAAAHAB 28804 <<< AAAAAAAAcAEAAAwAAAB8AQAADAAAAHABAAAAAAAAQwIAALYAAACUAQAAAAAAAJQBAAAAAAAA 28804 <<< lAEAAAAAAACUAQAAAAAAAJQBAAAAAAAAlAEAAAAAAACUAQAAAAAAAJQBAAAAAAAACAIAAAIA 28804 <<< AAAKAgAAAAAAAAoCAAAAAAAACgIAAAAAAAAKAgAAAAAAAAoCAAAAAAAACgIAACQAAAD5AgAA 28804 <<< 9AEAAO0EAABmAAAALgIAABUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAXAEAAAAAAACUAQAAAAAAAAAA 28804 <<< AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACUAQAAAAAAAJQBAAAAAAAAlAEAAAAAAACUAQAAAAAAAC4CAAAAAAAA 28804 <<< qAEAAAAAAABcAQAAAAAAAFwBAAAAAAAAlAEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAJQBAAAAAAAAlAEAAAAA 28804 <<< AACoAQAAAAAAAKgBAAAAAAAAqAEAAAAAAACUAQAACgAAAFwBAAAAAAAAlAEAAAAAAABcAQAA 28804 <<< AAAAAJQBAAAAAAAACAIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAcAEAAAAAAABwAQAAAAAAAFwB 28804 <<< AAAAAAAAXAEAAAAAAABcAQAAAAAAAFwBAAAAAAAAlAEAAAAAAAAIAgAAAAAAAKgBAABgAAAA 28804 <<< qAEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgCAAAAAAAAXAEAAAAAAABcAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 28804 <<< AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACAIAAAAAAACUAQAA 28804 <<< AAAAAIgBAAAMAAAAcABqZPK2uwFwAQAAAAAAAHABAAAAAAAAngEAAAoAAAAIAgAAAAAAAAAA 28804 <<< AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 28804 <<< AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA <at this point transmission hangs and connection eventually drops>

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Sample CISCO Border Router Config
by Kenneth D. Paquette 21 Feb '01

21 Feb '01

I remember seeing a pointer to a CISCO Border Router Config on one of the lists in the last few months an thought I saved the URL. Now I can't find it. I have searched the archives to no avail. I am not sure if it was NANOG or one of the firewall lists, but figured I would start here first. I believe is a link into the SANS institute, but can't find it there either. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks -------------------------------------------- Ken Paquette Program Manager Global Internetwork Planning Technology Deployment Office of the CIO

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RE: Sample CISCO Border Router Config
by Mark Borchers 21 Feb '01

21 Feb '01

There is also some config boilerplate at http://www.cymru.com/~robt/Docs/Articles/index.html <http://www.cymru.com/~robt/Docs/Articles/index.html> Not necessarily border-router specific, but contains some useful info. -----Original Message----- From: Steve Smith [mailto:SSmith@freeliant.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 8:32 AM To: Kenneth D. Paquette; nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: RE: Sample CISCO Border Router Config This one is pretty good. http://www.attrition.org/~modify/texts/phrack/Phrack55/P55-10 <http://www.attrition.org/~modify/texts/phrack/Phrack55/P55-10> -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth D. Paquette [ mailto:ken@btv.ibm.com <mailto:ken@btv.ibm.com> ] Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 8:16 AM To: nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: Sample CISCO Border Router Config I remember seeing a pointer to a CISCO Border Router Config on one of the lists in the last few months an thought I saved the URL. Now I can't find it. I have searched the archives to no avail. I am not sure if it was NANOG or one of the firewall lists, but figured I would start here first. I believe is a link into the SANS institute, but can't find it there either. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks -------------------------------------------- Ken Paquette Program Manager Global Internetwork Planning Technology Deployment Office of the CIO

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