December 2000 - Test - lists.nanog.org

Route-maps
by Smith, Ed 06 Dec '00

06 Dec '00

> Would anyone on the list be able to provide me with some "real life" > route-maps as I'm trying to create a test environment to exercise "real > world" scenarios. Also, to what extent they are used throughout a global > network. > Thanks! Ed Smith

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RE: Operations: where are you going to sit?
by Jade Deane 06 Dec '00

06 Dec '00

I didn't want to come off sounding like a Nextel proponent, but it's a solution that's worked well here. And yes, their convoluted two way system is by no means traditional, and I'm open to suggestions ;) Perhaps a CB with a nice oak finish would be in order. Breaker Breaker 1-9, we have flapping. Jade -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Senie [mailto:dts@senie.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 10:27 AM To: Jade Deane Cc: 'Matt Thoene'; nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: Re: Operations: where are you going to sit? Jade Deane wrote: > > Loss of signal in a data center is a good point. At a previous organization > I was slaved to, we brought this up with Nextel sales people. After about a > week or so they purposed a small in-line receiver for the various data > centers, and a thin Kate Moss looking yagi for each roof. Actually, this should be a passive device. Various types of slotted waveguide/coax are made, for example in the Heliax product line. An antenna on the roof (directional antenna only if you're on the edge of a coverage area) and a slotted line through your facility will provide good results. Think about it for all commonly used frequencies (cellular and pager) that might be in use in your facility. This isn't something you have to get via your wireless vendor, and it doesn't need electronics. Hospitals have used such setups for years to permit doctor's pagers to function throughout buildings (even in basements). > > Also, I can't stress the importance of a basic two way mobile system. We > use the Nextel i1000+ phones for our engineering staff and NOC. The > internet access features on these bad boys has been VERY handy. The ability > for a NOC member to check MRTG/Openview type information and IMAP/etc. email > has been beneficial. Something for you to think about: Your Nextel phones are NOT two-way radios in the traditional sense. They communicate handset to handset via the Nextel network (even if you're right next to each other). If you're in the midst of a storm or other natural disaster and your local cell site dies, you've got no use of those radios. Also, in the event of emergency, cell sites become overloaded with folks sitting in traffic calling people. You may find these radios least effective when you need them most. The Motorola radios other folks suggested are FM transceivers on business (or FRS) bands. These communicate directly from radio to radio (commercial gear also can use private repeaters). These are better choices, as they have no outside dependencies. > > Jade > > Jade E. Deane > Network Engineer > helloNetwork.com > Las Vegas, Nevada > > Office: +1 (702) 938-9267 > Cell: +1 (702) 604-4759 > Fax: +1 (702) 456-1471 > email: jade.deane(a)helloNetwork.com > epage: 7026044759(a)page.nextel.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Matt Thoene [mailto:matt@thoene.net] > Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 9:40 AM > To: nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: RE: Operations: where are you going to sit? > > :: > ::I would add wireless phones in general. If NOC staff need to walk over to > ::another person's screen or to swap cables or interfaces in a > ::datacenter, you > ::probably don't want them tied to a desk phone. You may want to consider > ::some basic 2 way radios (RF) in addition to wireless/cell phones for > ::datacenter <--> NOC <--> restroom communication independent of > ::any ma bell. > > ...especially since cell phones tend to get no signal in Data Centers... > > -Matt -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel Senie dts(a)senie.com Amaranth Networks Inc. http://www.amaranth.com

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RE: Operations: where are you going to sit?
by Roeland Meyer 06 Dec '00

06 Dec '00

> 3) Reliability - Never seen a CB that could take the abuse my Motorola > gear has taken. I've seen very little communication gear that can take the abuse Motorola gear, in general, can take. Only Uniden/Cobra comes close.

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RE: Operations: where are you going to sit?
by Roeland Meyer 06 Dec '00

06 Dec '00

Think cheap. SprintPCS gave us a hellofadeal that none of the others could touch and it works for the road-dogs (self-included). > -----Original Message----- > From: Adam Rothschild [mailto:asr@latency.net] > Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 11:38 AM > To: Roeland Meyer > Cc: nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: Re: Operations: where are you going to sit? > > > On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 11:06:20AM -0800, Roeland Meyer wrote: > > > Can you provide links for providers of this? We have exactly this > > problem. We're in a fringe zone of SprintPCS (East Livermore, CA) > > and none of our c-phones work inside the building. SprintPCS was > > supposed to do a buildout this way, this year, but it isn't > > happening. > > Not to rehash the whole "my cell phone provider is better than yours" > discussion, but I'd strongly advise against using SprintPCS for > communications as critical as this. I've found their coverage to be > extremely poor outside of major metropolitan areas (unless you enjoy > using analog, and paying for the privilege, due to their lack of > coverage :-). And, their international calling is shifty, at best. > > Of course, your experience may vary. > > Just my $0.02... > -adam >

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RE: Operations: where are you going to sit?
by Roeland Meyer 06 Dec '00

06 Dec '00

Can you provide links for providers of this? We have exactly this problem. We're in a fringe zone of SprintPCS (East Livermore, CA) and none of our c-phones work inside the building. SprintPCS was supposed to do a buildout this way, this year, but it isn't happening. > From: Daniel Senie [mailto:dts@senie.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 10:27 AM > > Jade Deane wrote: > > > > Loss of signal in a data center is a good point. At a > previous organization > > I was slaved to, we brought this up with Nextel sales > people. After about a > > week or so they purposed a small in-line receiver for the > various data > > centers, and a thin Kate Moss looking yagi for each roof. > > Actually, this should be a passive device. Various types of slotted > waveguide/coax are made, for example in the Heliax product line. An > antenna on the roof (directional antenna only if you're on > the edge of a > coverage area) and a slotted line through your facility will provide > good results. Think about it for all commonly used > frequencies (cellular > and pager) that might be in use in your facility. This isn't something > you have to get via your wireless vendor, and it doesn't need > electronics. > > Hospitals have used such setups for years to permit doctor's pagers to > function throughout buildings (even in basements).

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RE: Operations: where are you going to sit?
by Roeland Meyer 06 Dec '00

06 Dec '00

I've worked in facilities where this ban existed, but not for the stated reasons. These same facilities don't even let you bring in a transistor radio because it is so easy to turn it into a transmitter. The EMI part is usually part of the dis-information. These same places also prohibit personal lap-tops, under the TEMPEST excuse. What they are really worried about is espionage. I'll bet they have a ferocious firewall too. > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel L. Golding [mailto:dan@netrail.net] > Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 11:32 AM > To: Roeland Meyer > Cc: 'Mathew Butler'; 'Jade Deane'; 'Daniel Senie'; 'Matt Thoene'; > nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: RE: Operations: where are you going to sit? > > > I have worked in data centers where cell phones, FM radios, > Nextel phones, > etc. were banned. The theory was that the radios could > somehow interfere > with the equipment. This never made much sense to me. Are restrictions > such as this common? Anyone have any thoughts on if this is rooted in > truth or falacy? It's very hard to work on some type of > network problems, > where you have to console in, while using someone standing > outside a data > center as a "talker". > > - Dan Golding > > On Wed, 6 Dec 2000, Roeland Meyer wrote: > > > > > Go to RadioShack, buy wireless FM, use it in the data > center. No license. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mathew Butler [mailto:mbutler@tonbu.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 10:57 AM > > To: 'Jade Deane'; 'Daniel Senie' > > Cc: 'Matt Thoene'; nanog(a)merit.edu > > Subject: RE: Operations: where are you going to sit? > > > > > > Small problem: You can't use CB for any kind of business > purpose. :( > > There's a separate business band that -can- be used for > business -- you have > > to get a license from the FCC to use it, but that's > per-company and not > > per-user. > > -Mat Butler > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jade Deane [mailto:jade.deane@HelloNetwork.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 10:39 AM > > To: 'Daniel Senie' > > Cc: 'Matt Thoene'; nanog(a)merit.edu > > Subject: RE: Operations: where are you going to sit? > > > > > > > > I didn't want to come off sounding like a Nextel proponent, > but it's a > > solution that's worked well here. And yes, their > convoluted two way system > > is by no means traditional, and I'm open to suggestions ;) > > Perhaps a CB with a nice oak finish would be in order. > Breaker Breaker 1-9, > > > > we have flapping. > > Jade > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Daniel Senie [mailto:dts@senie.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 10:27 AM > > To: Jade Deane > > Cc: 'Matt Thoene'; nanog(a)merit.edu > > Subject: Re: Operations: where are you going to sit? > > > > > > > > Jade Deane wrote: > > > > > > Loss of signal in a data center is a good point. At a previous > > organization > > > I was slaved to, we brought this up with Nextel sales > people. After about > > > > a > > > week or so they purposed a small in-line receiver for the > various data > > > centers, and a thin Kate Moss looking yagi for each roof. > > Actually, this should be a passive device. Various types of slotted > > waveguide/coax are made, for example in the Heliax product line. An > > antenna on the roof (directional antenna only if you're on > the edge of a > > coverage area) and a slotted line through your facility > will provide > > good results. Think about it for all commonly used > frequencies (cellular > > and pager) that might be in use in your facility. This > isn't something > > you have to get via your wireless vendor, and it doesn't need > > electronics. > > Hospitals have used such setups for years to permit > doctor's pagers to > > function throughout buildings (even in basements). > > > > > > Also, I can't stress the importance of a basic two way > mobile system. We > > > use the Nextel i1000+ phones for our engineering staff > and NOC. The > > > internet access features on these bad boys has been VERY > handy. The > > ability > > > for a NOC member to check MRTG/Openview type information > and IMAP/etc. > > email > > > has been beneficial. > > Something for you to think about: Your Nextel phones are > NOT two-way > > radios in the traditional sense. They communicate handset > to handset via > > the Nextel network (even if you're right next to each > other). If you're > > in the midst of a storm or other natural disaster and your > local cell > > site dies, you've got no use of those radios. Also, in the event of > > emergency, cell sites become overloaded with folks sitting > in traffic > > calling people. You may find these radios least effective > when you need > > them most. > > The Motorola radios other folks suggested are FM transceivers on > > business (or FRS) bands. These communicate directly from > radio to radio > > (commercial gear also can use private repeaters). These are better > > choices, as they have no outside dependencies. > > > > > > Jade > > > > > > Jade E. Deane > > > Network Engineer > > > helloNetwork.com > > > Las Vegas, Nevada > > > > > > Office: +1 (702) 938-9267 > > > Cell: +1 (702) 604-4759 > > > Fax: +1 (702) 456-1471 > > > email: jade.deane(a)helloNetwork.com > > > epage: 7026044759(a)page.nextel.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Matt Thoene [mailto:matt@thoene.net] > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 9:40 AM > > > To: nanog(a)merit.edu > > > Subject: RE: Operations: where are you going to sit? > > > > > > :: > > > ::I would add wireless phones in general. If NOC staff > need to walk over > > to > > > ::another person's screen or to swap cables or interfaces in a > > > ::datacenter, you > > > ::probably don't want them tied to a desk phone. You may > want to consider > > > > > ::some basic 2 way radios (RF) in addition to > wireless/cell phones for > > > ::datacenter <--> NOC <--> restroom communication independent of > > > ::any ma bell. > > > > > > ...especially since cell phones tend to get no signal in > Data Centers... > > > > > > -Matt > > > > > > -- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > Daniel Senie dts(a)senie.com > > Amaranth Networks Inc. http://www.amaranth.com > > >

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RE: Operations: where are you going to sit?
by Mathew Butler 06 Dec '00

06 Dec '00

Small problem: You can't use CB for any kind of business purpose. :( There's a separate business band that -can- be used for business -- you have to get a license from the FCC to use it, but that's per-company and not per-user. -Mat Butler -----Original Message----- From: Jade Deane [mailto:jade.deane@HelloNetwork.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 10:39 AM To: 'Daniel Senie' Cc: 'Matt Thoene'; nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: RE: Operations: where are you going to sit? I didn't want to come off sounding like a Nextel proponent, but it's a solution that's worked well here. And yes, their convoluted two way system is by no means traditional, and I'm open to suggestions ;) Perhaps a CB with a nice oak finish would be in order. Breaker Breaker 1-9, we have flapping. Jade -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Senie [mailto:dts@senie.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 10:27 AM To: Jade Deane Cc: 'Matt Thoene'; nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: Re: Operations: where are you going to sit? Jade Deane wrote: > > Loss of signal in a data center is a good point. At a previous organization > I was slaved to, we brought this up with Nextel sales people. After about a > week or so they purposed a small in-line receiver for the various data > centers, and a thin Kate Moss looking yagi for each roof. Actually, this should be a passive device. Various types of slotted waveguide/coax are made, for example in the Heliax product line. An antenna on the roof (directional antenna only if you're on the edge of a coverage area) and a slotted line through your facility will provide good results. Think about it for all commonly used frequencies (cellular and pager) that might be in use in your facility. This isn't something you have to get via your wireless vendor, and it doesn't need electronics. Hospitals have used such setups for years to permit doctor's pagers to function throughout buildings (even in basements). > > Also, I can't stress the importance of a basic two way mobile system. We > use the Nextel i1000+ phones for our engineering staff and NOC. The > internet access features on these bad boys has been VERY handy. The ability > for a NOC member to check MRTG/Openview type information and IMAP/etc. email > has been beneficial. Something for you to think about: Your Nextel phones are NOT two-way radios in the traditional sense. They communicate handset to handset via the Nextel network (even if you're right next to each other). If you're in the midst of a storm or other natural disaster and your local cell site dies, you've got no use of those radios. Also, in the event of emergency, cell sites become overloaded with folks sitting in traffic calling people. You may find these radios least effective when you need them most. The Motorola radios other folks suggested are FM transceivers on business (or FRS) bands. These communicate directly from radio to radio (commercial gear also can use private repeaters). These are better choices, as they have no outside dependencies. > > Jade > > Jade E. Deane > Network Engineer > helloNetwork.com > Las Vegas, Nevada > > Office: +1 (702) 938-9267 > Cell: +1 (702) 604-4759 > Fax: +1 (702) 456-1471 > email: jade.deane(a)helloNetwork.com > epage: 7026044759(a)page.nextel.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Matt Thoene [mailto:matt@thoene.net] > Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 9:40 AM > To: nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: RE: Operations: where are you going to sit? > > :: > ::I would add wireless phones in general. If NOC staff need to walk over to > ::another person's screen or to swap cables or interfaces in a > ::datacenter, you > ::probably don't want them tied to a desk phone. You may want to consider > ::some basic 2 way radios (RF) in addition to wireless/cell phones for > ::datacenter <--> NOC <--> restroom communication independent of > ::any ma bell. > > ...especially since cell phones tend to get no signal in Data Centers... > > -Matt -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel Senie dts(a)senie.com Amaranth Networks Inc. http://www.amaranth.com

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Anyone can help on this puzzle?
by nanog＠btamail.net.cn 06 Dec '00

06 Dec '00

Dear all, There is a IDC service provider whose data centers are scattered here and there. It has its own AS number but no circuits to mesh its nodes. If they want to run BGP with their carrier to exchange routes carrying traffic between their nodes ( I suspect it is not a VPN senario because it is using public IP address and most of the traffic is not internal) and their IP block are potentially intersected among the nodes, is each zone sharing same AS and running like an island enough to go? And do we need an IPsec gateway to create tunnels over public networks (through the eBGP peer? >:$ #$*&^$#$!) to setup iBGP if possible at all? Thanks in adv! ___________________________________________________________________________ I use this mail box only to avoid the big volume. ---------------------------------------------- »¶ÓÊ¹ÓÃ BTA µç×ÓÓÊŒþÏµÍ³ http://btamail.net.cn Thank you for using BTA Email system

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RE: Operations: where are you going to sit?
by Roeland Meyer 06 Dec '00

06 Dec '00

FM is the way to go here. > From: Jade Deane [mailto:jade.deane@HelloNetwork.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 10:39 AM > > I didn't want to come off sounding like a Nextel proponent, but it's a > solution that's worked well here. And yes, their convoluted > two way system > is by no means traditional, and I'm open to suggestions ;) > > Perhaps a CB with a nice oak finish would be in order. > Breaker Breaker 1-9, > we have flapping.

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RE: Operations: where are you going to sit?
by Jade Deane 06 Dec '00

06 Dec '00

Loss of signal in a data center is a good point. At a previous organization I was slaved to, we brought this up with Nextel sales people. After about a week or so they purposed a small in-line receiver for the various data centers, and a thin Kate Moss looking yagi for each roof. Also, I can't stress the importance of a basic two way mobile system. We use the Nextel i1000+ phones for our engineering staff and NOC. The internet access features on these bad boys has been VERY handy. The ability for a NOC member to check MRTG/Openview type information and IMAP/etc. email has been beneficial. Jade Jade E. Deane Network Engineer helloNetwork.com Las Vegas, Nevada Office: +1 (702) 938-9267 Cell: +1 (702) 604-4759 Fax: +1 (702) 456-1471 email: jade.deane(a)helloNetwork.com epage: 7026044759(a)page.nextel.com -----Original Message----- From: Matt Thoene [mailto:matt@thoene.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 9:40 AM To: nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: RE: Operations: where are you going to sit? :: ::I would add wireless phones in general. If NOC staff need to walk over to ::another person's screen or to swap cables or interfaces in a ::datacenter, you ::probably don't want them tied to a desk phone. You may want to consider ::some basic 2 way radios (RF) in addition to wireless/cell phones for ::datacenter <--> NOC <--> restroom communication independent of ::any ma bell. ...especially since cell phones tend to get no signal in Data Centers... -Matt

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