July 1997 - Test - lists.nanog.org

Re: Mr. Ferguson, et.al.'s problems with the list.
by jprovo＠ma.ultranet.com 23 Jul '97

23 Jul '97

[snip] >Anyone who thinks that the AUP specifically addresses any of the >threads it's been mentioned to quash in the last 14 days apparently >speaks a different version of English than I do. It all seems to land under item 6, except for the light insults (item 4). DNS politics (non-ops aspect of alternic's purposeful cache corrcuption) Registry politics (the "nsi-monopoly" stuff) socioeconomic politics (the "who's a capitalist? I am!" gribbage) [etc] While I'm at it, common courtesy says not to post private email publicly and common sense says don't hash out broken mailers on public lists. I expect you should hear *plonks* into .procmailrcs today. Cheers, Joe "I'm sorry, perhaps your horse isn't high enough?" Provo (affiliation for identification, not endorsement, etc std disclaimers) -- Joe Provo, Network Architect 800.763.8111 x3006 Network Operations Center Fax 508.229.2375 UltraNet Communications, Inc. <jprovo(a)ultra.net>

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RE: Quote from Kashpureff / Re: question about per. hack
by Tom Walton 23 Jul '97

23 Jul '97

Please, please, take this bilge off of the NANOG list. This is not the place for techno-politico-socio-net-policy discussions. Work it out in the undergraduate lounge, and get back to us with the answer. Tom -- Tom Walton twalton(a)twalton.com On Tuesday, July 22, 1997 5:27 PM, Ted Timmons [SMTP:tedder@abcompsvc.com] wrote: > At 05:07 PM 7/22/97 -0400, Christopher Masto wrote: > >Now _that's_ not right at all. I think the excuse of charging > >a fee for > >something to discourage its use is ridiculous. Where exactly > >are these > >AOLers going to get primary and secondary name service? Web > >servers? > >Mail forwarders? > > With the latest free email, web pages, etc (juno, hotmail, > geocities), it > wouldn't take too long for someone to come up with free DNS, > MXing, etc.. > > How would _you_ discourage registration? By not explaining it > very well? > That hasn't kept the idiots away from unix, Perl, etc... > -- > -=TED=- O- JAPH tedt(a)colubs.com - work > tedder(a)abcompsvc.com - home > > Link Rot: The process by which links on a web page become as > obsolete as the sites they're connected to change location or > die.

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Re: Quote from Kashpureff / Re: question about per. hack
by alan＠mindvision.com 23 Jul '97

23 Jul '97

Paul, It is my opinion that one has the power to self-moderate quite effectively. Procmail enables one to delete the ramblings of noiseful posters, while still preserving the amusement so many serious networking folk gain from nanog. 'man procmail' The joy of this internet thing we've created is that we can selectively enforce the ear-plugging. I don't think moderation is appropriate. -alan >From owner-nanog(a)merit.edu Tue Jul 22 22:45:50 1997 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 20:24:55 -0400 To: nanog(a)merit.edu From: Paul Ferguson <pferguso(a)cisco.com> Subject: Re: Quote from Kashpureff / Re: question about per. hack NANOG list maintainers: Please consider this a formal request to moderate this list. The signal/noise ratio is horrible as it is, and continuing to ignore off-topic posts, such as the thread on DNS policy, is compounding the issue. I would appreciate a response on this issue asap. Otherwise, I would fully expect to see an exodus of list participants who can no longer tolerate noise. - paul At 07:40 PM 07/22/97 -0400, Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > >Perhaps the thread has drifted off topic. But get off your goddamned >high horse and save us the snotty rejoinders, all right?

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Re: looking for status lists
by sob＠academ.com 23 Jul '97

23 Jul '97

I am working on such a list here at academ.com, but it's not ready yet. Discussions about it or outage notification in general are welcome at "outage-discuss(a)academ.com". -- Stan | Academ Consulting Services |internet: sob(a)academ.com Olan | For more info on academ, see this |uucp: {mcsun|amdahl}!academ!sob Barber | URL- http://www.academ.com/academ |Opinions expressed are only mine.

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looking for status lists
by Tim Peiffer 23 Jul '97

23 Jul '97

Can anyone point me to a list that has status and advance failure announcements for the service providers whether ISP or NSP? I would also be interested in announcements on major policy changes that affect the internet community. Please respond to me directly as I will be removing my subscription from this list. Do you run a regional, national, or international network who's traffic to and from my institution would be impacted by failures in transit? Do you operate a large commercial service that suffers an occasional outage (Internic, AOL, ...)? If so, then I would be interested in subscribing to your status announcement lists. The nanog list has had a few good pearls out there during the MAE-WEST outages, and the various WorldCom fiber cuts around the country, but recently the discussions have degraded into a less than productive list with a fairly high amount of noise. Tim Peiffer peiffer(a)nts.umn.edu Networking and Telecommunications Services University of Minnesota +1 612 626 7884 desk 2221 University Ave +1 612 625 0006 problems Suite 145 +1 612 626 1002 fax Minneapolis MN 55455, USA

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Re: Quote from Kashpureff / Re: question about per. hack
by George Herbert 22 Jul '97

22 Jul '97

>Can we please dispense with the discussion of domain name >services on the NANOG list? I would personally prefer that >this discussion be taken elsewhere. More appropriate lists (as it is no longer appropriate to network operator discussions) might include com-priv, domain-policy or newdom lists. It might return to appropriateness if further denial-of-service attacks take place and network operations are affected again, but at this time it appears drifting into familiar, often argued, and inappropriate-to-nanog territory. The policy discussions are not operational. -george william herbert gherbert(a)crl.com

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Re: Network problem update (fwd)
by Alex Rubenstein 22 Jul '97

22 Jul '97

>> >From approximately 1300-1400 EST we experienced a cisco IOS feature which >> caused significant instability in our network. >Is this the "no router bgp <insert your AS>" feature? Sounds like in inexperienced tech whining. So, where is the cheese? --- "Don't go with a spineless ISP; we have more backbone." Alex Rubenstein -- alex(a)nac.net -- KC2BUO -- www.nac.net net @ccess corporation, 201-983-0725 -- 201-983-0725

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Re: Quote from Kashpureff / Re: question about per. hack
by Jay＠Iperdome.com 22 Jul '97

22 Jul '97

As a new subscriber to this list, I am pleased to see a diversity of opinions without *flaming*. At 03:32 PM 7/22/97 -0500, Aaron Abelard wrote: >I'm sick of paying the NIC to, and in reality I think Kashpureff's hack is >pretty elegant. However, I disagree that capitalism is /pure evil/. Once >upon a time the net was driven by research and academia, but that day has >passed. The net as it stands now is in poor shape, and a with the latest >intense round of backhoe attacks and DNS problems the enormous amount of >capital invested in the internet will have to be protected. This is when >those capitalist companies will finally start to hash out technologies >that make the internet more redundandt. Agreed! >The problem and, I >believe, the solution lies with the root name servers. Until people >accept and use more than the current InterNIC root server we won't be able >to announce any more domain name strategies. Agreed! All in all, I *do* think that NSI has done a good job with their role as registrar and Root Server Operator. I even think that their recent glitch was not to be unexpected, and any registrar could have a similar glitch at some point in their future. My only issue with NSI is that they stand to benefit without ever facing any financial risk (NSF funding ==> collect fees as a government sanctioned monopoly ==> cashing out via IPO). Open the name space up to true competition (i.e. not the gTLD-MoU), and all netizens will benefit. Regards, Jay Fenello President, Iperdome, Inc. 404-250-3242 http://www.iperdome.com

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Re: BIND vulnerability to "additional information" hack
by Paul A Vixie 22 Jul '97

22 Jul '97

since these questions are common, i've decided to publish the answer on NANOG. > I was under the impression that the vulnerability to bogus "additional > information" was a thing of pre-4.9 BINDs, and that all versions of > 4.9.x are safe. What you wrote here implies that only 4.9.5-P1 and > later are actually safe. there are varying degrees of corruption. to protect against alternic, you have to run 8.1.1 or 4.9.6. even 4.9.5-P1 is susceptible. > I'm responsible for a number of nameservers on the Internet, at a > number of sites. Most of them are running BIND 4.9.3 and a few are > running 4.9.4 and 4.9.5; none are yet running any version of BIND 8. 4.9.6 is your friend. it's a drop-in, zero insertion force replacement for 4.9.*. it's not as good in general as 8.1.1, but it protects against alternic cache pollution as well as 8.1.1, which is as well as we can do it without full DNSSEC. > Although they will all eventually be upgraded, I'm considering how > urgent it is to upgrade them all now. Are they vulnerable to this hack? YES.

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Re: Quote from Kashpureff / Re: question about per. hack
by Curt Howland 22 Jul '97

22 Jul '97

> > taking money for an essential service and trying to make a profit, is > > PURE EVIL and goes against everything that I belive "the net" should be. > > Sure! Money, of course, is the root of all evil. No, LOVE OF MONEY is the root of all evil, or so the quote goes. Basically envey, jelousy, coveting your neighbors YP-X... > NSI does a good job at what they do, and 50 bucks a year really isn't > much to whine about. I have no problem with paying them, when I choose to use them. The fact that they are the only game in town, by goverment fiat, is objectionable. Honestly, I like the idea of competing NIC's. Not exactly sure how to do it without just as much an arbitrary fiat as what I object to in the first place. The *idea* of the Alternic is excelent. Their execution is prosecutable. > Grow up Mr. Mathias. Profit is the only reason you have a job, food in > your grocery store, and an Internet to complain about. Couldn't agree more. Viva la almighty BUCK. > Jesse "I'm Capitalist and I'm proud" Caulfield. Curt-

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