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Frustrating loss of connectivity...
by Robert A. Hayden 13 Oct '03

13 Oct '03

Hey all, I apologize for posting this here, especially for what is essentially an end-user broadband issue, but I'm looking at what appears to be a link a few hops upstream from me that has been flapping frequently and I can't get our provider to look into it. I am located in Madison, WI, and I have my mail/server machine geek.net co-located in Minneapolis on a business-class DSL line (1.5m/384k). For the past couple of months, I'll lose connectivity for about 5 minutes several times a day. We attempted to open a case with the DSL provider (covad), but they were only interested in addressing last-mile issues and we got nowhere. Same applied when addressing it from my broadband end, since the disconnect is 3 providers upstream. In any case, any thoughts on where I should go with this? I could try Level3, but I suspect they'll blow me off since I'm not a direct customer. It's getting quite frustrating as I'm trying to move a few hundred mb back and forth over the VPN and with that one link flapping it's become almost impossible. Traceroute examples included below. I left real IPs here since they are all easily determined anyways: ------ TRACE #1: From my home connection to Geek.NET when it's BROKEN, note where it breaks. C:\>tracert 66.166.71.243 Tracing route to geek.net [66.166.71.243] over a maximum of 30 hops: 1 24 ms 10 ms 29 ms 10.44.64.1 2 11 ms 10 ms 11 ms 172.18.98.98 3 19 ms 22 ms 43 ms 172.18.97.58 4 16 ms 14 ms 15 ms 12.125.143.113 5 58 ms 34 ms 47 ms gbr2-a90s19.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.123.5.78] 6 16 ms 17 ms 16 ms tbr1-p013602.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.122.11.37] 7 31 ms 28 ms 14 ms ggr2-p310.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.123.6.65] 8 16 ms 105 ms 16 ms so-1-1-0.edge1.Chicago1.Level3.net [209.0.227.77] 9 21 ms 21 ms 33 ms so-2-1-0.bbr2.Chicago1.level3.net [209.244.8.13] 10 32 ms 19 ms 14 ms pos9-0.core1.Chicago1.level3.net [209.247.10.170] 11 20 ms 31 ms 48 ms gige6-2.ipcolo2.Chicago1.Level3.net [209.244.8.30] 12 64 ms 29 ms 36 ms unknown.Level3.net [209.247.226.26] 13 * * * Request timed out. 14 * * * Request timed out. .. 30 * * * Request timed out. Trace complete. ---------------------------------- TRACE #2: Same trace, but this time when it's working. C:\>tracert 66.166.71.243 Tracing route to geek.net [66.166.71.243] over a maximum of 30 hops: 1 21 ms 16 ms 15 ms 10.44.64.1 2 10 ms 22 ms 11 ms 172.18.98.98 3 10 ms 15 ms 11 ms 172.18.97.58 4 13 ms 37 ms 14 ms 12.125.143.113 5 15 ms 18 ms 18 ms gbr2-a90s19.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.123.5.78] 6 26 ms 15 ms 19 ms tbr1-p013602.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.122.11.37] 7 36 ms 39 ms 14 ms ggr2-p310.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.123.6.65] 8 34 ms 14 ms 37 ms so-1-1-0.edge1.Chicago1.Level3.net [209.0.227.77] 9 17 ms 14 ms 14 ms so-2-1-0.bbr2.Chicago1.level3.net [209.244.8.13] 10 17 ms 13 ms 14 ms pos9-0.core1.Chicago1.level3.net [209.247.10.170] 11 18 ms 15 ms 16 ms gige6-2.ipcolo2.Chicago1.Level3.net [209.244.8.30] 12 24 ms 27 ms 25 ms unknown.Level3.net [209.247.226.26] 13 30 ms 17 ms 23 ms 192.168.5.66 14 49 ms 52 ms 102 ms 172.18.57.242 15 91 ms 40 ms 39 ms geek.net [66.166.71.243] Trace complete. ------------------- Trace #3: Final trace, from Geek.NET back to my home broadband host (my home IP changed to 10.0.0.1 for this example). traceroute to 10.0.0.1 (10.0.0.1), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets 1 r-66-166-71-241.CHCGILGM.covad.net (66.166.71.241) 1.050 ms 0.938 ms 0.891 ms 2 172.31.255.253 (172.31.255.253) 24.068 ms 26.558 ms 26.169 ms 3 192.168.5.65 (192.168.5.65) 22.466 ms 23.301 ms 22.528 ms 4 gigabitethernet8-0-131.ipcolo1.Chicago1.Level3.net (209.247.34.177) 23.638 ms 23.263 ms 22.539 ms 5 gige5-1.core1.Chicago1.Level3.net (209.244.8.17) 22.243 ms 23.256 ms 22.528 ms 6 so-4-0-0.bbr2.Chicago1.level3.net (209.247.10.169) 22.883 ms 22.522 ms 21.514 ms 7 so-7-0-0.edge1.Chicago1.Level3.net (209.244.8.14) 23.624 ms 23.530 ms 23.884 ms 8 att-Level3-oc48.Chicago1.Level3.net (209.0.227.78) 23.853 ms 22.426 ms 23.137 ms 9 tbr2-p014001.cgcil.ip.att.net (12.123.6.70) 25.277 ms 25.311 ms 23.857 ms 10 gbr6-p20.cgcil.ip.att.net (12.122.11.62) 24.244 ms 23.695 ms 24.001 ms 11 gar2-p370.cgcil.ip.att.net (12.123.5.221) 23.892 ms 23.012 ms 23.858 ms 12 12.125.142.122 (12.125.142.122) 27.939 ms 27.272 ms 28.703 ms 13 * * * 14 * * * 15 10.0.0.1 (10.0.0.1) 40.235 ms 39.292 ms 38.271 ms ------- Any thoughts or recommendations here? - Robert

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NANOG and Pre NANOG social Events
by Malayter, Christopher 13 Oct '03

13 Oct '03

Hello Everyone, Social Events are as follows: Saturday Night: House of Blues for a concert featuring Soulive with Me'Shell Ndegeocello http://www.hob.com/tickets/eventdetail.asp?eventid=22654 The doors open at 7:30, so we'll meet in the Hotel Lobby at 6:30pm and either cab or walk over together depending on the weather. I urge you to get your tickets ahead of time. After the show we have a few bars in mind to head to that we'll take a poll of those that are at the show to see what everyone is looking for! If you don't want to go to the show, but still want to drink with a few Wisconsinites, drop me your cell number and I will call you to let you know where we are going. I would anticipate the show being over between 10:30 and 11pm. Sunday Night: Navy Pier IMAX runs shows of the Matrix Reloaded every night at 8:15pm. We will meet in the lobby of the Hotel at 5:00 for dinner. Dinner will be at Gino's East for some authentic Chicago style pizza. If you don't like the thick crust, don't worry they have thin! http://featuredfoods.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/a-store/c-GinoAns_East.shtml ?E+scstore+ginos The location is at Wells and Ontario. Then, for those of you who might want to duck out of the evening tutorial, we'll meet in the hotel lobby at 7pm and head to Navy Pier to catch the 8:15 showing of the Matrix Reloaded!! Again, I urge you to get your tickets ahead of time. http://www.imax.com/chicago/ After the show, we'll meet at Bubba Gumps Shrimp Company to gather the company and head out on the town. If you're worried about not finding a few fellow network geeks at a bar, just drop me your cell number and I'll be sure to announce our arrival at the Shrimp Company! http://www.bubbagump.com/html/chicago.html If you have any questions, comments, suggestions. Please let me know ASAP. Thanks to everyone for their overwhelming support and interest in doing social events!!! Also, thanks to many people for their suggestions! Chris Malayter chris.malayter(a)tdstelecom.com TDS Telecom

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Extreme BlackDiamond
by Shazad - eServers 13 Oct '03

13 Oct '03

How are these for CORE SWITCHES (distribution) compared to BigIron and the CISCO 6509? >From what I have heard and reports they are very solid switches. Thanks in advance -Shazzy

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RE: Extreme BlackDiamond
by Shazad - eServers 13 Oct '03

13 Oct '03

Matt, Yes we are that is correct. We will be offering COLO and dedicated hosting and need some serious horse-power. Right now, we are set on this..,. ROUTER : 2 * Juniper M40's, these will be connected from day one to darkfibre. DISTRID : 2 * Extreme BlackDiamonds with redundant routing engines. (highly considering the BigIrons) AGGREG : These would be a mix of Extreme Alpines/BigIron4000 - 8000/Summit 48i's depending on whether we are offering colo, ded-hosting, managed services etc... ACCESS : Extreme Summit 24e3 or Foundry series. Please don't hesitate to contact us if you have any more questions. Best Regards, Shazad eServers - driving the "e" into your business. -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Sweet [mailto:msweet@deadnet.net] Sent: 13 October 2003 15:43 To: Shazad - eServers Subject: RE: Extreme BlackDiamond Shazad, Are you going to do colocation or something like metro-area ethernet access services to office / colo buildings? The reason I am asking this is a company called Yipes (yipes.com) uses a similiar setup: Black Diamond for high-density switching and Juniper M20/40s for the routing services. I cannot say anything for the Black Diamond, except Yipes uses them. I am using Alpine 3808s and Summit 48sis, along with Juniper M10 routers at my datacenter. The Alpine switching have alot of nice features on them. If you are doing dedicated server/colocation, I would assume you need a higher density than I am needing. Anyways, just wanted to put my $.02 in. Matt

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Re: i'd like to know your opinions on the com/net wildcard issue
by Paul Vixie 13 Oct '03

13 Oct '03

> > see http://sa.vix.com/~vixie/comnetsurv/ > > An incentive to take the survey: If you fill it out, it'll tell you the > aggregated results so far, which are, lemme tell you, pretty surprising. > Who knew that NANOG subscribers would anonymously admit they were > clueless? :-) that's just bad ui on my part. this is a two hour perl script and probably ought to allow people to fix their mistakes but that would be Hard, so "no."

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RE: Extreme BlackDiamond
by Shazad - eServers 13 Oct '03

13 Oct '03

Randy, Thank you very much for your feedback, I really appreciate all the comments I am receiving. Please don't hesitate to contact us if you have any more questions. Best Regards, Shazad -----Original Message----- From: Randy Bush [mailto:randy@psg.com] Sent: 13 October 2003 16:03 To: Shazad - eServers Subject: RE: Extreme BlackDiamond > DISTRID : 2 * Extreme BlackDiamonds with redundant routing engines. (highly > considering the BigIrons) > > AGGREG : These would be a mix of Extreme Alpines/BigIron4000 - 8000/Summit > 48i's depending on whether we are offering colo, ded-hosting, managed > services etc... > > ACCESS : Extreme Summit 24e3 or Foundry series. go with foundry. better even just as switches. extreme has weak control of software, so bugs at all levels. randy

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RE: Extreme BlackDiamond
by Shazad - eServers 13 Oct '03

13 Oct '03

Shawn, London, UK. Please don't hesitate to contact us if you have any more questions. Best Regards, Shazad eServers - driving the "e" into your business. -----Original Message----- From: Fisher, Shawn [mailto:SFisher@Bresnan.com] Sent: 13 October 2003 15:54 To: 'shazad(a)eservers.biz' Subject: RE: Extreme BlackDiamond Shazad, Where is your datacenter located? Shawn -----Original Message----- From: Shazad - eServers [mailto:shazad@eservers.biz] Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 10:52 AM To: 'Matthew Sweet' Cc: nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: RE: Extreme BlackDiamond Matt, Yes we are that is correct. We will be offering COLO and dedicated hosting and need some serious horse-power. Right now, we are set on this..,. ROUTER : 2 * Juniper M40's, these will be connected from day one to darkfibre. DISTRID : 2 * Extreme BlackDiamonds with redundant routing engines. (highly considering the BigIrons) AGGREG : These would be a mix of Extreme Alpines/BigIron4000 - 8000/Summit 48i's depending on whether we are offering colo, ded-hosting, managed services etc... ACCESS : Extreme Summit 24e3 or Foundry series. Please don't hesitate to contact us if you have any more questions. Best Regards, Shazad eServers - driving the "e" into your business. -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Sweet [mailto:msweet@deadnet.net] Sent: 13 October 2003 15:43 To: Shazad - eServers Subject: RE: Extreme BlackDiamond Shazad, Are you going to do colocation or something like metro-area ethernet access services to office / colo buildings? The reason I am asking this is a company called Yipes (yipes.com) uses a similiar setup: Black Diamond for high-density switching and Juniper M20/40s for the routing services. I cannot say anything for the Black Diamond, except Yipes uses them. I am using Alpine 3808s and Summit 48sis, along with Juniper M10 routers at my datacenter. The Alpine switching have alot of nice features on them. If you are doing dedicated server/colocation, I would assume you need a higher density than I am needing. Anyways, just wanted to put my $.02 in. Matt

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.name TLD - resolution issues
by Suresh Ramasubramanian 13 Oct '03

13 Oct '03

Hi there We operate webmail services for the .name TLD (MX and DNS resolution are handled by the nic.name people). After the recent Verisign brouhaha, several of y'all patched their nameservers to stop believing Verisign (so did we). Just that quite a few of you also seem to have set up your resolvers to do the same thing with other wildcarded TLDs. .name is a wildcarded TLD and does have legit domains on it. Right now we are seeing a lot of problems with .name domains being treated as unresolvable thanks to this, and mail from .name users is not getting through as mailservers are configured not to accept mail from unresolvable domains. I know, .name domains don't have zones or NS records attached to them - but yes, this is a legit wildcard (kind of like .museum, but this one is for vanity domains). I'd request DNS admins here to not treat .name as delegation-only. thanks --srs -- srs (postmaster|suresh)(a)outblaze.com // gpg : EDEDEFB9 manager, outblaze.com security and antispam operations

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RE: Extreme BlackDiamond
by Shazad - eServers 13 Oct '03

13 Oct '03

Firstly, a BIG BIG thanks to all the replies. I would like to add one comment onto this, the Black Diamonds would be used for purely switching and nothing else. The Junipers would do the routing, BGP tables etc... As for as TheTollyGroup how much credibility do these guys hold? Thanks again. -Shazzy -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Shazad - eServers Sent: 13 October 2003 02:16 To: nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: Extreme BlackDiamond How are these for CORE SWITCHES (distribution) compared to BigIron and the CISCO 6509? >From what I have heard and reports they are very solid switches. Thanks in advance -Shazzy

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BGP and OSPF
by Jean-Yves Le Boudec 13 Oct '03

13 Oct '03

It is known that redistribution of routes learnt by BGP into an IGP is considered harmful, but I am still wondering how you can route without redistribution of BGP routes in an OSPF cloud that connects to several external networks. I have the following scenario. RA (AS100) | RB (AS101) ------------------------ R1 R2 R0 (AS559) R3 R4 ------------------------ RC (AS201) | RD (AS202) All routers except R0 run BGP. R0--R4 are in the same AS and run OSPF. RA-RD are all in distinct ASs. RA is BGP peer to R1, RB to R2, RC to R3 and RD to R4. The addresses and numbers are fake. The ASs are peers, not customers. Assume that R1 learns a route to a network in AS100, says 1.1/16, with next hop = 3.3.3.1 (the IP address of the p2p link R1-RA). Now assume a data packet with destination address in 1.1/16 is received by any router in AS559, say for example R0 or R4. The router has to know where to forward it. Since AS559 connects to different peer ASs in different locations, it does not seem feasible to use default routes. (Method 1) One way to is to assume that R1 redistributes the route 1.1/16 into OSPF, which will then propagate it as a type 4 LSA. Then R0 and R4 can build a forwarding table (using OSPF) and set a forwarding entry to 1.1/16. This method is what is described in Huitema's book "Routing in the Internet". Now I understand that this is not done in practice (I am right ?) since it forces OSPF to carry all the IP prefixes seen by BGP, which in that case might be all prefixes in the world. (Method 2) An alternative is to have recursive table lookup in forwarding entries at all border routers (R1 to R4). R4 writes that the destination address 1.1/16 is to be sent to NEXT-HOP = 3.3.3.1. R4 learns this over I-BGP from R1. The data packet with destination address in 1.1/16 uses loose source routing inside AS559 and is sent to the link R1-RA. The job of OSPF is only to propagate how to route to all addresses in AS559 (including 3.3.3.1) and there is no redistribution of BGP into OSPF. Border routers need to update the forwarding tables using their RIB learnt from BGP. Now source routing is obsolete in IPv4, does any one use it ? (Method 3) Same as method 2, but IP in IP encapsulation is used instead of loose source routing. Seems heavy weight for a high speed backbone. (Method 4) Same as method 2, but Tag Switching (or MPLS) is used instead of loose source routing. Can any one help me understand what is done in practice among Methods 1 to 4, or any other one that I missed ? Thanks in advance, JL

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