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Re: PlayStationNetwork blocking of CGNAT public addresses
by Alexander Maassen 23 Sep '16

23 Sep '16

Maybe its time then for a global accepted, unified way to send/report abuse? That should solve most of the issues and end points would be able to deal with it in a common way and only would need to think about how to integrate it in their crm's etc. We are all using the same medium, but attempt to communicate issues using several methods. Perhaps iana can use those (m/b)illions they got from selling tld's and cook something up. Kind regards, Alexander Maassen - Technical Maintenance Engineer Parkstad Support BV- Maintainer DroneBL- Peplink Certified Engineer -------- Oorspronkelijk bericht --------Van: Baldur Norddahl <baldur.norddahl(a)gmail.com> Datum: 22-09-16 14:10 (GMT+01:00) Aan: nanog(a)nanog.org Onderwerp: Re: PlayStationNetwork blocking of CGNAT public addresses On 22 September 2016 at 10:42, Alexander Maassen <outsider(a)scarynet.org> wrote: > So you ignore/don't deal with the abuse coz it's shipped in a format you > refuse to handle? > > And you don't even bother telling the reporter you would like it in a per > ip format? Or make attempts to make it work the way they report it (split > out the ip's and modify the to be forwarded mail to only contain the ip's > belonging to that customer)???? > You will have to remember that these are automated mails from the reporter. If I write them back it goes into their bit bucket, because they do not really care enough to bother replying. I am betting they are sending out thousands mails each day and they can not handle manually replying to all of that. In the same way we receive a large amount of automated mail so we have to be able to handle it automatically. Send me something sane and I will make a script that forwards it. Send me something unusable and I wont - but I will not do manual handling of your automated mail. All I am trying to do here is tell people that send abuse mails not to combine multiple abuse complaints in one mail, because that makes it harder for everybody and makes it more likely that your mail will be dropped as too much work. Double so if your abuse mails is from an automated system, because I will try to match your automated system with my own. However it is much harder to make a system that can edit your complaint and duplicate it to several recipients, than it is to run a simple filter that just forwards the mail as is. As to PSN they will usually send multiple mails if the abuse is ongoing. At some point they will send a mail with just one IP and that one gets forwarded. So we are dropping some of the mails, but the users eventually get notified anyway. It is not ideal but it works. Regards, Baldur

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PlayStationNetwork blocking of CGNAT public addresses
by Simon Lockhart 23 Sep '16

23 Sep '16

All, We operate an access network with several hundred thousand users. Increasingly we're putting the users behind CGNAT in order to continue to give them an IPv4 service (we're all dual-stack, so they all get public IPv6 too). Due to the demographic of our users, many of them are gamers. We're hitting a problem with PlayStationNetwork 'randomly' blocking some of our CGNAT outside addresses, because they claim to have received anomalous, or 'attack' traffic from that IP. This obviously causes problems for the other legitimate users who end up behind the same public IPv4 address. Despite numerous attempts to engage with PSN, they are unwilling to give us any additional information which would allow us to identify the 'rogue' users on our network, or to identify the 'unwanted' traffic so that we could either block it, or use it to identify the rogue users ourselves. Has anyone else come up against the problem, and/or have any suggestions on how best to resolve it? Many thanks in advance, Simon

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Re: PlayStationNetwork blocking of CGNAT public addresses
by Alexander Maassen 22 Sep '16

22 Sep '16

So you ignore/don't deal with the abuse coz it's shipped in a format you refuse to handle? And you don't even bother telling the reporter you would like it in a per ip format? Or make attempts to make it work the way they report it (split out the ip's and modify the to be forwarded mail to only contain the ip's belonging to that customer)???? Kind regards, Alexander Maassen - Technical Maintenance Engineer Parkstad Support BV- Maintainer DroneBL- Peplink Certified Engineer -------- Oorspronkelijk bericht --------Van: Baldur Norddahl <baldur.norddahl(a)gmail.com> Datum: 21-09-16 10:37 (GMT+01:00) Aan: nanog(a)nanog.org Onderwerp: Re: PlayStationNetwork blocking of CGNAT public addresses Hi We have the opposite problem with PSN: Sometimes they will send abuse reports with several of our IP addresses listed. The problem with that is that we can not give data about one customer to another customer. By listing multiple IP addresses we are prevented from forwarding the email to the customer. Which means we may ignore it instead. Regards, Baldur

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Livestream of NYNOG Meetup #2 today
by Joly MacFie 22 Sep '16

22 Sep '16

10:45am EDT https://livestream.com/internetsociety/nynog2 -- --------------------------------------------------------------- Joly MacFie 218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast -------------------------------------------------------------- -

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Re: PlayStationNetwork blocking of CGNAT public addresses
by Alexander Maassen 22 Sep '16

22 Sep '16

Both gamers and content providers do not care. The gamers as they only care about the game itself and don't care about the technical mumbo jumbo. And the makers coz they only care about making money by producing content the gamers want. And you service providers are left with the headache of attempts to please both sides. If this wasn't the case, then why after 20 years, ipv6 ain't rolled out. Hence again I'd be voting for an ipv6 only day, but that will never happen..... Kind regards, Alexander Maassen - Technical Maintenance Engineer Parkstad Support BV- Maintainer DroneBL- Peplink Certified Engineer -------- Oorspronkelijk bericht --------Van: Mark Andrews <marka(a)isc.org> Datum: 21-09-16 03:29 (GMT+01:00) Aan: Justin Wilson <lists(a)mtin.net> Cc: NANOG <nanog(a)nanog.org> Onderwerp: Re: PlayStationNetwork blocking of CGNAT public addresses In message <09342130-874F-4FA4-B410-B7B66A75FA4D(a)mtin.net>, Justin Wilson write s: > PSN is one reason I am not a fan of CGNAT. All they see are tons of > connections from the same IP. This results in them banning folks. Due > to them being hacked so many times getting them to actually communicate > is almost impossible. My .02 is just get the gamers a true public if at > all possible. > > Justin Wilson > j2sw(a)mtin.net What we need is business tech reporters to continually report on these failures of content providers to deliver their services over IPv6. 20 years lead time should be enough for any service. Mark -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka(a)isc.org

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Re: PlayStationNetwork blocking of CGNAT public addresses
by Alexander Maassen 22 Sep '16

22 Sep '16

Ipv6 is there for 20+ years, cgnat is needed coz the net grows kinda exponentially due to stuff like IoT/mobiles/m2m, and isp's need to provide users with the ability to talk ipv4 simply because the other side refuses to deploy v6 abilities. Do the math if they really care. Also the servers itself hosting the gameserver probably already are dual stacked. But the gamecode itself misses the support. Then there is the issue of you as isp not being able or daring to show a fist and simply saying: screw you. Because you are risking to loose customers. And as long as the company's earn plenty of money using outdated code, they won't change it, coz that would imply spending money that won't flow into fancy buildings, fast cars and all that other useless luxury. Kind regards, Alexander Maassen - Technical Maintenance Engineer Parkstad Support BV- Maintainer DroneBL- Peplink Certified Engineer -------- Oorspronkelijk bericht --------Van: Mike Hammett <nanog(a)ics-il.net> Datum: 22-09-16 13:23 (GMT+01:00) Aan: Alexander Maassen <outsider(a)scarynet.org> Cc: NANOG <nanog(a)nanog.org> Onderwerp: Re: PlayStationNetwork blocking of CGNAT public addresses If you told them they would have fewer NAT issues if they supported IPv6, they'd start to care. ;-) They know enough to hate NAT. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Alexander Maassen" <outsider(a)scarynet.org> Cc: "NANOG" <nanog(a)nanog.org> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 3:35:01 AM Subject: Re: PlayStationNetwork blocking of CGNAT public addresses Both gamers and content providers do not care. The gamers as they only care about the game itself and don't care about the technical mumbo jumbo. And the makers coz they only care about making money by producing content the gamers want. And you service providers are left with the headache of attempts to please both sides. If this wasn't the case, then why after 20 years, ipv6 ain't rolled out. Hence again I'd be voting for an ipv6 only day, but that will never happen..... Kind regards, Alexander Maassen - Technical Maintenance Engineer Parkstad Support BV- Maintainer DroneBL- Peplink Certified Engineer -------- Oorspronkelijk bericht --------Van: Mark Andrews <marka(a)isc.org> Datum: 21-09-16 03:29 (GMT+01:00) Aan: Justin Wilson <lists(a)mtin.net> Cc: NANOG <nanog(a)nanog.org> Onderwerp: Re: PlayStationNetwork blocking of CGNAT public addresses In message <09342130-874F-4FA4-B410-B7B66A75FA4D(a)mtin.net>, Justin Wilson write s: > PSN is one reason I am not a fan of CGNAT. All they see are tons of > connections from the same IP. This results in them banning folks. Due > to them being hacked so many times getting them to actually communicate > is almost impossible. My .02 is just get the gamers a true public if at > all possible. > > Justin Wilson > j2sw(a)mtin.net What we need is business tech reporters to continually report on these failures of content providers to deliver their services over IPv6. 20 years lead time should be enough for any service. Mark -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka(a)isc.org

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Re: PlayStationNetwork blocking of CGNAT public addresses
by Alexander Maassen 22 Sep '16

22 Sep '16

As long as their is no international accepted standard as to how to report abuse and everyone cooking up his/her own methods.. I think you have either the choice of adapting and thus be able to deal with the abuse. Or be lazy and stubborn, ignore it, wait for the bad reputation to say hi to your company and face the effects it might cause. Kind regards, Alexander Maassen - Technical Maintenance Engineer Parkstad Support BV- Maintainer DroneBL- Peplink Certified Engineer -------- Oorspronkelijk bericht --------Van: Tom Beecher <beecher(a)beecher.cc> Datum: 21-09-16 17:13 (GMT+01:00) Aan: Justin Wilson <lists(a)mtin.net> Cc: NANOG <nanog(a)nanog.org> Onderwerp: Re: PlayStationNetwork blocking of CGNAT public addresses I have a hard time accepting that service providers should re-engineer their networks because other companies cannot properly engineer their abuse tooling. On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Justin Wilson <lists(a)mtin.net> wrote: > PSN is one reason I am not a fan of CGNAT. All they see are tons of > connections from the same IP. This results in them banning folks. Due to > them being hacked so many times getting them to actually communicate is > almost impossible. My .02 is just get the gamers a true public if at all > possible. > > Justin Wilson > j2sw(a)mtin.net > > --- > http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO > xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth > > http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman > Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric > > > On Sep 20, 2016, at 8:24 AM, Danijel Starman <theghost101(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > Something similar happened to a local FantasyConon I was helping set up, > we > > had only two PS4 machines there and accounts provided by Blizzard for > > Overwatch. Outside IP of the LAN (as it was NATed) was banned by PSN in > > about 8h. There was no other traffic other then those two accounts > playing > > Overwatch so my guess is that they have some too aggressive checks. I've > > managed to convince our ISP there to change the outside IP of the link so > > we got them working the next day but it happened again in 8h. > > > > -- > > *blap* > > > > On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 3:12 PM, Simon Lockhart <simon(a)slimey.org> > wrote: > > > >> All, > >> > >> We operate an access network with several hundred thousand users. > >> Increasingly > >> we're putting the users behind CGNAT in order to continue to give them > an > >> IPv4 > >> service (we're all dual-stack, so they all get public IPv6 too). Due to > the > >> demographic of our users, many of them are gamers. > >> > >> We're hitting a problem with PlayStationNetwork 'randomly' blocking some > >> of our > >> CGNAT outside addresses, because they claim to have received anomalous, > or > >> 'attack' traffic from that IP. This obviously causes problems for the > other > >> legitimate users who end up behind the same public IPv4 address. > >> > >> Despite numerous attempts to engage with PSN, they are unwilling to > give us > >> any additional information which would allow us to identify the 'rogue' > >> users > >> on our network, or to identify the 'unwanted' traffic so that we could > >> either > >> block it, or use it to identify the rogue users ourselves. > >> > >> Has anyone else come up against the problem, and/or have any > suggestions on > >> how best to resolve it? > >> > >> Many thanks in advance, > >> > >> Simon > >> > >> > > > >

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Domain renawals
by Jeff Jones 22 Sep '16

22 Sep '16

Hello All, Sorry if this is low level. But are people sick of registrars jacking up prices? Who is the cheapest and most reliable? I have been using whois.com, networksolutions.com and am looking for input on who is cheap, secure, reliable registrar. Thanks for your input. ~Jeff

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Re: CDN Overload?
by Scott Weeks 21 Sep '16

21 Sep '16

:: I have made this into a Google Form to make it easier to :: track compared to randomly formatted responses on multiple :: mailing lists, Facebook Groups, etc. Yeah, because... but I don't do email like that why is it hard to read? it's really hard to read email this way. because it's out of order umm, ok. I fixed it for you scott

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importance of fiber cleaning
by Mikael Abrahamsson 21 Sep '16

21 Sep '16

https://www.sunet.se/blogg/long-read-cleanliness-is-a-virtue/ This is an excellent article regarding fiber cleaning and its importance. Please do share with other people in our business. I'm sure lack of proper fiber cleaning causes a lot of unneccessary outages and operational problems worldwide, partly because people aren't aware of its importance. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike(a)swm.pp.se

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