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LAST CALL for NANOG Meeting
by Pam Ciesla 17 May '96

17 May '96

If you are planning on attending the NANOG Meeting in Washington D.C. May 30 & 31 please register by 12:00PM EST Thursday, 5/23. If you need info regarding this meeting check the Merit Web Page http://nic.merit.edu/ or the CIX Web Page http://www.cix.org/Events/nanog8.html. If you do not have access to these send me e-mail. If you have already registered PLEASE do not register again :*). Thanks Pam

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Re: topological closeness....
by Paul Ferguson 17 May '96

17 May '96

At 12:44 AM 5/18/96 +0800, Che-Hoo Cheng wrote: > >Yes, they are still a minor aspect but I think they contribute serveral more >percents to the return on investment. In AP, we have exchange points such >as NSPIXP of Japan and HKIX of Hong Kong. If ISPs in other AP countries >have links to JP or HK and automatically (or semi-automatically) they can >connect to all ISPs in that country/region instead of just one or several >ISPs in it, the connection is more valuable and justifiable. If the links >can also be used to connect to other ISPs in other AP countries via that >exchange, the connection is even more valuable and justifiable. Of course, >we still can't eliminate the links to US altogether. But we probably can >slow down the growth of bandwidth requirements to US a little bit. > Thanks for mentioning this -- it is exactly what is needed. :-) - paul

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Re: topological closeness....
by Che-Hoo Cheng 17 May '96

17 May '96

At 06:57 AM 5/16/96 +1000, Geoff Huston wrote: >Paul, > >You can be a vocal as you desire, but ultimately from this part of the >globe the dominant factor in any ISP business is the cost of the >International Private Lease. This lease cost is approximately 10 times >the cost of domestic infrastructure. > >Now when you construct an IPL in a competitive environment where do >you terminate it? Generally you are loking for an optimal mix of price >and functionality. The observation for the AP region today is that the >cheapest IPL half circuits for the AP region terminate in the >US. Hence Randy's observation. The internal infrastructure within the >AP region happens in a second pass, once the primary objective of >major connectivity is achieved internal infrastructure can be cost >effective if there is internal traffic flow to match. > >About the only thing that could hasten regional infrastructure is a >drastic revision of the trading practices and expectation of return on >investment by the undersea cable investors. Exchange points have >little impact per se as they are, in economic terms, a minor aspect of >the entire equation. Yes, they are still a minor aspect but I think they contribute serveral more percents to the return on investment. In AP, we have exchange points such as NSPIXP of Japan and HKIX of Hong Kong. If ISPs in other AP countries have links to JP or HK and automatically (or semi-automatically) they can connect to all ISPs in that country/region instead of just one or several ISPs in it, the connection is more valuable and justifiable. If the links can also be used to connect to other ISPs in other AP countries via that exchange, the connection is even more valuable and justifiable. Of course, we still can't eliminate the links to US altogether. But we probably can slow down the growth of bandwidth requirements to US a little bit. (NOTE: HKIX has mandatory MLPA for routes within Hong Kong.) Che-Hoo Cheng | Email: chcheng(a)cuhk.edu.hk Data Comms and Networking Section | URL: http://www.cuhk.edu.hk/ Information Technology Service Unit | Tel: +852 2609-8848 The Chinese University of Hong Kong | Fax: +852 2603-5001

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Re: topological closeness....
by Paul Ferguson 17 May '96

17 May '96

At 07:37 PM 5/15/96 +0900, David R. Conrad wrote: > >In the Asia Pacific Rim region, nearly all the bandwidth goes from AP >region countries to the US directly. This is true due to the >tariffing situation, although it is now beginning to change (some >intra-Asia networks have already been established). > I think many of us have been *very* vocal supporters of encouraging creationm of multiple AP NAPs to avoid this form of dementia. :-) When traffic transits back to the US West Coast to reach another AP location, this clearly contributes to the overall problem. >Putting mirrors in countries usually makes sense (particularly when a >country has an Internet exchange or two), but putting them on a >continental basis generally doesn't. > Agreed. Creating exchange points would also help immensely. - paul

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Draft NANOG agenda
by Susan R. Harris 16 May '96

16 May '96

Greetings - here's the draft NANOG agenda. ----------------------------------------- North American Network Operators Group (NANOG) Agenda Thursday, May 30 Time Topic Presenter(s) ---- ----- ----------- 9:00 a.m. Welcome, Introductions, Bill Norton, Merit Future Meetings 9:15 a.m. STATE OF THE INTERNET: NAPs PacBell NAP Warren Williams, PacBell Sprint NAP Bilal Chinoy, SDSC Ameritech NAP Mark Cnota, Ameritech MAE-East Steve Feldman, MFS Datanet 10:45 a.m. Break 11:00 a.m. STATE OF THE INTERNET: NSPs Sprint Jim Steinhardt, Sprint ANS Curtis Villamizer, ANS MCI Jack Waters, MCI 12:00-1:00 p.m. Lunch 1:00 p.m. Call for Participation: Robert Laughlin, DataXnge Simplified Peering at the Exchange Points 1:15 p.m. STATE OF THE INTERNET: Trends and Research Standardized Format for Exchange Dave Siegel, RTD Systems Point Traffic Recording & & Networking Interchange Exchange Point Traffic Fragmentation & Reassembly Kim Claffy, SDSC InterNIC Update Mark Kosters,InterNIC Routing Stability Analysis Craig Labovitz, Merit 2:45 p.m. Internet Service Measurements: Call for Participation Steve Crocker, CyberCash 3:00 p.m. Break 3:15 p.m. Status of the Internet Routing Registry RAWhoisd Update Brian Renaud, Merit IRR Synchronization Brian Renaud Using the IRR to Generate Cisco Randy Bush, RGnet Configurations Optimizing the Route Server Jake Khuon, Merit Configuration Process 4:15 p.m. Economics of Route Filtering Jeremy Porter, Freeside & Other Limits Communications 4:45 p.m. MView: An Application for Dave Thaler, Merit Visualizing & Managing the MBone Friday, May 31 9:00 a.m. Routing Arbiter Update Project Status Elise Gerich, Merit New Tools Roe (Route Object Editor) Cengiz Alaettinoglu, ISI ASExplorer & other Tools Craig Labovitz, Merit 9:45 a.m. "Web Efficiency and Robustness:" Larry Blunk, Merit Meeting Summary 10:15 a.m. Break 10:30 a.m. InterNIC Guardian Object Jasdip Singh, InterNIC 11:00 a.m. Inter-Provider Outage Notifications Jonathan Heiliger, MFS Communications Co. Alan Hannan, Global Internet 11:30 a.m. Update from the PIER (Procedures Will Leland, Bellcore for Internet and Enterprise Renumbering) Working Group 11:45 a.m. Closing Remarks Bill Norton, Merit

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Re: topological closeness....
by Paul Ferguson 15 May '96

15 May '96

At 06:57 AM 5/16/96 +1000, Geoff Huston wrote: >Paul, > >You can be a vocal as you desire, but ultimately from this part of the >globe the dominant factor in any ISP business is the cost of the >International Private Lease. This lease cost is approximately 10 times >the cost of domestic infrastructure. > Geoff, I'm stating what would be ideal, not necessarily practical. And pointing out what should already be obvious. :-) - paul

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Re: topological closeness....
by Sanjay Dani 15 May '96

15 May '96

>The only problem that it does not work at all. > >Which WWW server is closer to me - one with BGP path > > 1239 3491 690 1333 (cnn.com) > >or one at > > 1239 1792 (www.cnc.ac.cn)? > >The second is in China, for God's sake! > >There ain't no such thing as global metrics. The only >useful kind of metrics is administrative, and therefore >they cannot reflect any real characteristics of paths. On a global level, how useful would it be to base the decision on whether the client address belongs to the the InterNIC block, APNIC or the european registry ? I can live with exceptions such as an MCI customer in India gets redirected to the north american mirror server instead of the one in Singapore because their address belongs to an InterNIC allocated MCI block. How often do these exceptions happen ? Where can I find the association of address blocks and registries ? We are currently working on mirroring a copule of sites on all major continents. I understand this approach does not optimize routing to the web servers within north america. Sanjay.

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Re: topological closeness....
by Hank Nussbacher 14 May '96

14 May '96

On Tue, 14 May 1996 10:09:44 +1000 Geoff Huston wrote: >At 6:15 PM 13/5/96, Vadim Antonov wrote: >>Cacheing appears to be the only sane way to distribute >>load. You always know where the closest cacheing server is. > >not even this is the case - you can guess but that may not always >work! > >If I could _enforce_ caching by traffic interception then >I could construct vaguely logical cache structures as an ISP. AS378 does exactly that. It blocks port 80 to abroad and forces everyone to the Netscape proxy servers it runs (2 of them in a load balance fashion with DNS set to point to only one if the other fails). AS378 is the Israeli University academic network of 7 universities. > >But relying on users to configure their end systems with the >identity of the closest cache server using some ill defined >"network metric" is always going to be an erratic affair at best. Not unless you don't have a choice :-) Go to: http://www.tau.ac.il/Shiber/May96/13May96 There you will find their numbers for yesterday. Port 80 now consumes 54% of all traffic. > >geoff > > Hank

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Re: topological "closeness" (RE: Web o' Wonder)
by Justin W. Newton 14 May '96

14 May '96

At 03:04 PM 5/13/96 -0700, Matthew Kaufman wrote: >As soon as some nice legislation gets passed to protect me, the ISP, when >I run a cache, I'll put one in and help solve the bandwidth problem. Saying >"the network will break without cache servers" isn't a valid defense to >charges of posession of illegal and/or copyrighted material. > >-matthew kaufman > matthew(a)scruz.net Yep, its much cheaper for me to buy another ds-3 or so than to worry about legal reprecussssions from proxying. This is something that has to be fixed. Justin Newton * You have to change just to stay Internet Architect * caught up. Erol's Internet Services *

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NANOG ANNOUNCEMENT: Future Dates and Locations
by William B. Norton 14 May '96

14 May '96

Hi Everyone - Thought you'd like to know that our fall meeting is set. Here's the schedule for the next two meetings: May 30-31 Washington DC hosted by the CIX @ George Washington University Oct 24-25 Ann Arbor, MI hosted by Merit @ University of Michigan Union Cheers - Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- William Norton <wbn(a)merit.edu> (313) 936-2656

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