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Re: Sprint's route filters and Europe
by sob＠academ.com 04 Jun '96

04 Jun '96

Michael, I guess I missed this when it was originally posted, but if you could put some attribution around it, it would be more helpful. -- Stan | Academ Consulting Services |internet: sob(a)academ.com Olan | For more info on academ, see this |uucp: {mcsun|amdahl}!academ!sob Barber | URL- http://www.academ.com/academ |Opinions expressed are only mine.

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Re: Portability of 206 address space
by Paul Ferguson 04 Jun '96

04 Jun '96

Tim, This stemmed from a 'what *is* portable?' discussion. I believe its relevant in NANOG, regardless of overlap into an IETF WG topic. In any event (and to open old wounds), I *liked* the addr-ownership draft and believed it should've been advanced as BCP, but I digress. Whether or not there was consensus that it should have been adopted and advanced is not relevant; the topics it discussed surely are. - paul At 10:50 PM 6/3/96 -0400, @NANOG-LIST wrote: >> >> The topic is discussed in more detail in >> draft-ietf-cidrd-addr-ownership-07.txt: [snip] >If you could contain this discussion, for the moment in the PIER-WG >and out of the radar range (i.e. NANOG) for a while it would be >appreciated, I think. But then again, you are certainly free to >do PIER-WG work in NANOG... but why? >

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Re: Portability of 206 address space
by Paul Ferguson 04 Jun '96

04 Jun '96

At 09:48 PM 6/3/96 -0400, Avi Freedman wrote: > >I think portable wrt the NICs may be: > >(1) The 'Portable' vs. 'Non-Portable' marker on the ISP IP request template > >(2) The 'Portable' vs. 'Non-Portable' marker on whois queries that says: > > ADDRESSES WITHIN THIS BLOCK ARE NON-PORTABLE > >Now, as to what it *means*, it probably means that if you asked the NIC >in question, they'd say 'touch luck' if you wanted to contest a SWIPping >away from you of the space, I suppose. > >Of course, since the NIC refuses to delegate > /16s worth of in-addr.arpa, >unless you have a <= /16 from your provider, you're not going to get useful >in-addr.arpa from your old provider if they don't want you to. > >Avi > It would appear, then, that a better definition for 'portable' needs to come in existence. Which is why I particularly liked draft-ietf-cidrd-addr-ownership-07.txt. After re-reading draft-hubbard-registry-guidelines-01.txt, its not readily apparent what 'portability' really means; I'm not so sure that it was the goal of the authors to define portability. It does state, however, that: [snip] 2) Routability: Distribution of globally unique Internet addresses in a hierarchical manner, permitting the routing scalability of the addresses. This scalability is necessary to ensure proper operation of Internet routing, although it must be stressed that routability is in no way guaranteed with the allocation or assignment of IPv4 addresses. [snip] Hence my earlier comment. The topic is discussed in more detail in draft-ietf-cidrd-addr-ownership-07.txt: [snip] Since the Internet does not constrain its topology (or allowed topology changes), we can either have address ownership for everyone or a routable Internet, but not both, or we need to develop and deploy new mechanisms (e.g., by decoupling the address owned by the end users from those used by the Internet routing, and provide mechanisms to translate between the two). In the absence of new mechanisms, if we have address ownership ("portable" addresses) for everyone, then the routing overhead will lead to a breakdown of the routing system resulting in a fragmented (partitioned) Internet. Alternately, we can have a routable Internet, but without address ownership ("portable" addresses) for everyone. [snip] - paul

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Re: MAE-West is up again ( RA Contract Value )
by Warren Williams 04 Jun '96

04 Jun '96

At 06:08 PM 6/2/96 -0400, you wrote: >gee bill, accusing AVI of muck raking? must have been confusing him with >me.... > >i think his question is very relevant...... > >how bout phrasing it differently? if ameritech, pac bell, mfs, or sprint >were >initially clueless (greedy?) enough to ask for $60,000 a month I can see >why you might like to decline to embarrass the offender.... - *IF* such >entity has become more reasonable in the meantime. > >so let me rephrase avi's question: > >what is the RA paying each NAP owner now?? this should be publicly >disclosable since it is paying with federal funds. Right? seems to me >the important question is whether anyone is out of line NOW. Since I've been involved with the NAP project at Pacific Bell, the RA has only been charged for an ATM port ($4,850 mo. flat). There has been no charge for the facilities in which the servers are housed, for reserved rack space, for power, access, whatever... Bill and I have been in discussion about a way to reduce the ATM access fees considerably, and that is merely waiting for some clearance (which I thought would come *much* faster) on my side of the house. Our mission (already accepted, Mr. Phelps) is to reduce the charge to zero. Kind regards, Warren ------------------------------------------------------------------- Warren K. Williams, Director - Network Access Point Pacific Bell Business Communications Services Email: wkwilli(a)pacbell.com Phone: 510.867.9065 -------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Portability of 206 address space
by Paul Ferguson 04 Jun '96

04 Jun '96

The interNIC has already stated that allocations can *not* be guaranteed to be 'routable', so it stands to reason that the interNIC (or any other registry, for that matter) need not concern itself with the issue of portability. As you mentioned, this is strictly a matter between the ISP(s) and the customer(s). - paul At 05:35 PM 6/3/96 -0700, Bill Manning wrote: > Please clarify "portable" as used in this context. > > - Routable between different providers > - Transferable intoto between ISPs > - Transferable subsets > - Some other meaning > > No delegation registry can claim any prefix portability if > the first option is the meaning. The second has applicability > to various proposals for a prefix market once a delegation > has been made. (no Internic involvment) The third is strictly > between ISPs and thier clients and has a lot to do with > prefix migration (nee punching holes in CIDR blocks) and nothing > to do with the Internic. And then there is your possible > other meaning... > > For the first three, the Internic has zero sane reason for > issuing any "edict" wrt portability. That is strictly an > ISP issue. The fourth... ??? :) > > >--bill >

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Internet end-to-end routing paper available
by Vern Paxson 03 Jun '96

03 Jun '96

The following paper: End-to-End Routing Behavior in the Internet is now available from: ftp://ftp.ee.lbl.gov/papers/routing.SIGCOMM.ps.Z This paper corresponds to the talk I gave at the February NANOG meeting. A slightly shorter version of this paper will appear in the proceedings of SIGCOMM '96. Abstract appended. Vern The large-scale behavior of routing in the Internet has gone virtually without any formal study, the exception being Chinoy's analysis of the dynamics of Internet routing information [Chinoy93]. We report on an analysis of 40,000 end-to-end route measurements conducted using repeated ``traceroutes'' between 37 Internet sites. We analyze the routing behavior for pathological conditions, routing stability, and routing symmetry. For pathologies, we characterize the prevalence of routing loops, erroneous routing, infrastructure failures, and temporary outages. We find that the likelihood of encountering a major routing pathology more than doubled between the end of 1994 and the end of 1995, rising from 1.5% to 3.4%. For routing stability, we define two separate types of stability, ``prevalence,'' meaning the overall likelihood that a particular route is encountered, and ``persistence,'' the likelihood that a route remains unchanged over a long period of time. We find that Internet paths are heavily dominated by a single prevalent route, but that the time periods over which routes persist show wide variation, ranging from seconds up to days. About 2/3's of the Internet paths had routes persisting for either days or weeks. For routing symmetry, we look at the likelihood that a path through the Internet visits at least one different city in the two directions. At the end of 1995, this was the case half the time, and at least one different autonomous system was visited 30% of the time.

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Re: Sprint's route filters and Europe
by sob＠academ.com 02 Jun '96

02 Jun '96

At the NANOG meeting just past, Sprintlink made a presentation indicating that they were altering their filtering policies over the course of this month such that all networks 206 and above would be filtered at /19. They said this was to be consistent with the new revision to RFC 1466 that is in the works. [Note to NANOG readers: please correct me if my notes on this was wrong, but this is what I recorded.] -- Stan | Academ Consulting Services |internet: sob(a)academ.com Olan | For more info on academ, see this |uucp: {mcsun|amdahl}!academ!sob Barber | URL- http://www.academ.com/academ |Opinions expressed are only mine.

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Re: MAE-West is up again (Sun's & Alphas)
by Daniel W. McRobb 02 Jun '96

02 Jun '96

> On Sat, 1 Jun 1996, Paul A Vixie wrote: > > > Warning: this is irrelevant to the stated charter of NANOG. Hit "D" now. > > > > I mean it. Don't read this. It's not about network operations. > > > > My experience differs significantly, but then my P/Pro is 200MHz and my > > Alpha is 333MHz. Microsoft probably has older Alphas and newer P/Pro's. > > However, since Pentium processors are CISC and Alphas are RISC, the > difference in clock speed may _still_ yield similar performance since > the Alphas have to execute _more_ instructions to accomplish similar > amounts of "work" (on the average since some tasks are simple and some > more complex). Don't get me wrong -- we love our Alphas (so far) and > feel it's probably a more stable platform at this point since the Pro's > are still fairly new. > > Northwest Nexus Inc. (206) 455-3505 (voice) > Professional Internet Services > edm(a)nwnexus.WA.COM > Before we continue on a path of naive CPU arguments (or worse, delve into 32-bit vs. 64-bit, MMU path width, cache, pipelining and stages, etc. etc.), can we take this offline please? Daniel ~~~~~~

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Sprint's route filters and Europe
by Michael Dillon 02 Jun '96

02 Jun '96

Any comments on the following? > Yeah, but maybe they'll do it right. Sprint's current policy would > you believe is apparently causing UUNet some problems in setting up > the Microsoft Network in Europe. > > Sprint and RIPE appear to have a disagreement on what the minimum > size of allocated address space should be, and folks like us are > stuck in the middle. Michael Dillon ISP & Internet Consulting Memra Software Inc. Fax: +1-604-546-3049 http://www.memra.com E-mail: michael(a)memra.com

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Complaint and other court papers available regarding second Network Solutions lawsuit
by Carl Oppedahl 02 Jun '96

02 Jun '96

For those who are following the lawsuits against Network Solutions Inc regarding its trademark domain name policy ... the Infolawalert web site has obtained and scanned in the Complaint and related legal papers in the DCI v. NSI case, and has made them available on its web site. Twice now (once in the Roadrunner case, and again now in the DCI case) we have seen a situation where a company was in danger of losing its domain name under NSI's trademark policy, and in which the only reasonable way to keep from losing the domain name is to sue NSI and ask a judge to order NSI not to cut it off. The information is at <http://infolawalert.com/source/src061496_dc_intro.html>. The NSI policy and its problems are also described in some detail in my Network World column at <http://www.patents.com/pubs/nw1.sht>.

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