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Re: ATM vs. DS3
by Avitosh Pal 10 Jul '97

10 Jul '97

In message "ATM vs. DS3", you write: > > From: Josh Beck <jbeck(a)connectnet.com> > > Now, the question is, what is the overhead of the serial (ppp?) protocol > > running over the T3? Since it is point to point, and not addressed, it > > should be less, or is this not the case? > > > The framing overhead for PPP over DS3 is about 7 bytes per packet. You > can make it as few as 4 (PPP header compression) or as long as 10 > (32-bit checksum). > > I don't know anyone shipping PPP data compression yet at those speeds, > although I've heard of a project using multiple Stac LZS chips. > > Anyway, you will get a lot better performance out of a PPP link than an > ATM link; certainly in the short term, and probably in the long term. > > WSimpson(a)UMich.edu > Key fingerprint = 17 40 5E 67 15 6F 31 26 DD 0D B9 9B 6A 15 2C 32 > BSimpson(a)MorningStar.com > Key fingerprint = 2E 07 23 03 C5 62 70 D3 59 B1 4F 5E 1D C2 C1 A2 > ======================================================== I think what the question is how much is lost in overhead for Frame Relay over ATM vs straight PPP on a DS3 link. (I'm assuming that since he says CIR he means FrameRelay and does not really mean SCR). My understanding is that you really arent loosing anything to cellification since the 4 Mb CIR is what the provider guarantees to you. i.e. the overhead has already been accounted for in getting to 4 Mb. The raw bandwidth required to achieve to get 4 Mb is; 4 Mb * 53/48 = 4.42 Mb To see what the PPP overhead consult RFC 1661. Regards Avitosh Pal Nortel Magellan Networks 613-723-4021 ===========================================================

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Re: ATM vs. DS3
by William Allen Simpson 10 Jul '97

10 Jul '97

> From: Josh Beck <jbeck(a)connectnet.com> > Now, the question is, what is the overhead of the serial (ppp?) protocol > running over the T3? Since it is point to point, and not addressed, it > should be less, or is this not the case? > The framing overhead for PPP over DS3 is about 7 bytes per packet. You can make it as few as 4 (PPP header compression) or as long as 10 (32-bit checksum). I don't know anyone shipping PPP data compression yet at those speeds, although I've heard of a project using multiple Stac LZS chips. Anyway, you will get a lot better performance out of a PPP link than an ATM link; certainly in the short term, and probably in the long term. WSimpson(a)UMich.edu Key fingerprint = 17 40 5E 67 15 6F 31 26 DD 0D B9 9B 6A 15 2C 32 BSimpson(a)MorningStar.com Key fingerprint = 2E 07 23 03 C5 62 70 D3 59 B1 4F 5E 1D C2 C1 A2

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Re: UUNet 10Plus
by Alex Rubenstein 10 Jul '97

10 Jul '97

To my knowledge: |-------| 10Plus Cust---|netedge|---DS3---| ATM | | | 10Plus Cust---|netedge|---DS3---|Switch |--ATM--|Cisco 4700/7xx0|--(World) |Cascade| 10Plus Cust---|netedge|---DS3---| | |-------| I have no idea what the xBR is on the DS3 to the NetEdge. At 03:17 PM 7/9/97 -0400, Deepak Jain wrote: > >My impression [which could be wrong] was that the 10Plus service was >delivered over clear channel DS3 between netedges and the actual 10Mbit/s >portion was dealt with at the media exchange. I didn't know/think they >formatted the DS3 as an ATM 10mbit/s circuit. > >Then again, I have never ordered 10Plus service. > >-Deepak. > >On Wed, 9 Jul 1997, Joe Shaw wrote: > >> Well, the ATM connection to the Net Edge box is only setup to do 10Mbps, >> so at 6Mbps on ATM, you've filled your cells. I think the whole ideaology >> behind the thing is flawed, and if they're going to sell something they >> call 10 Plus, they need to at least provide 10 of something other than >> 10Mbps in theory. I'm not happy with UUNet (it took 5 months to get the >> Net Edge box replaced), and I doubt they will have anything but the >> smallest possible presence in our network in the future. >> >> Joe Shaw - jshaw(a)insync.net >> NetAdmin - Insync Internet Services >> "Learn more, and you will never starve." - Paraphrase of Lee >> >> On Wed, 9 Jul 1997, Deepak Jain wrote: >> > >> > You could always plug an FDDI card into the back of the Netedge. >> > >> > -Deepak. >> > >> >> > --- "Don't go with a spineless ISP; we have more backbone." Alex Rubenstein -- alex(a)nac.net -- KC2BUO -- www.nac.net net @ccess corporation, 201-983-0725 -- 201-983-0725

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RE: Domain names and "The Network $olution", from The Netly News
by Wheeler, Jesse W 10 Jul '97

10 Jul '97

Sounds like an Oligarchy rather than a congress.. I am reminded by a quote, "Communism and Fascism looks great on paper and in theory, its a wonderful system. Try to put it into practical use, and watch it crumble like a house of cards." We have a wonderful system right now, with a quasi-democratic way-of-doing. Why ruin that by giving control over to "big brother" (in this case, big business?). Great.. Next time I log on, my PPP session will be SPONSORED by Intel.. Scared of that.. Just my $.02. -------------------------------- Jesse W. Wheeler Quality Assurance Analyst Reynolds & Reynolds HSD-PDX Email: Jesse_Wheeler(a)reyrey.com -------------------------------- >---------- >From: Declan McCullagh[SMTP:declan@pathfinder.com] >Sent: Thursday, July 10, 1997 8:53 AM >To: nanog(a)merit.edu >Subject: Domain names and "The Network $olution", from The Netly News > > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >X-FC-URL: Fight-Censorship is at http://www.eff.org/~declan/fc/ >Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 07:48:05 -0700 (PDT) >From: Declan McCullagh <declan(a)well.com> >Sender: owner-fight-censorship-announce(a)vorlon.mit.edu >To: fight-censorship-announce(a)vorlon.mit.edu >Subject: FC: Domain names and "The Network $olution", from The Netly News > >*********** > >http://pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1155,00.html > >The Netly News Network (http://netlynews.com) >July 10, 1997 > >The Network $olution >by Declan McCullagh (declan(a)well.com) > > It could have been the perfect way to liberate the Net from the > much-reviled monopoly of Network Solutions Inc., the company that > handles almost all U.S. domain name registrations. Backed by > well-regarded groups such as the Internet Society, the seven-page > proposal promised to reduce prices, increase choices -- and best of > all, really put the screws to everyone's least favorite domain name > registrar. > > But a month before the curtain is set to lift on a host of new > domains to supplement .com and .org, the ambitious plan suddenly seems > as doomed as the recently extirpated Communications Decency Act. Not > only did just one government, Albania, sign the "Memorandum of > Understanding" (MoU), but the U.S. actively opposed it. So did Network > Solutions, after they realized with gut-wrenching dismay the > consequences of losing their lucrative monopoly on .com. > > Yesterday another group of MoU critics met in Washington to form > the Open Internet Congress, which hopes to wrest control of Net > governance from "hobbyists" and "volunteers" and haul it into the > mainstream. "I don't want a bunch of volunteers playing around and > trying to run the show. I don't want petty battles over who's in > charge and who's keeping the lights on," says Andrew Sernovitz, the > president of the Association for Interactive Media, which organized > the summit. Sernovitz envisions a ruthlessly commercialized cyberspace > that's safe for companies like IBM, Intel, NBC and Time Warner > (Netly's corporate big brother) that cough up $9,000 a year to be > governing members of AIM. > > The talk yesterday was of revolution. Sernovitz spoke about > holding an Internet "Constitutional Convention" this fall. He passed > out supportive columns quoting from "Common Sense" by Thomas Paine. I > even heard folks call the MoU the move that will spark the online > equivalent of the Boston Tea Party. (Led, presumably, by firms like > Time Warner? Since that media giant also owns CNN, you can be sure the > revolution will indeed be televised.) > >[...] > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >This list is public. To join fight-censorship-announce, send >"subscribe fight-censorship-announce" to majordomo(a)vorlon.mit.edu. >More information is at http://www.eff.org/~declan/fc/ > >

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Domain names and "The Network $olution", from The Netly News
by Declan McCullagh 10 Jul '97

10 Jul '97

---------- Forwarded message ---------- X-FC-URL: Fight-Censorship is at http://www.eff.org/~declan/fc/ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 07:48:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Declan McCullagh <declan(a)well.com> Sender: owner-fight-censorship-announce(a)vorlon.mit.edu To: fight-censorship-announce(a)vorlon.mit.edu Subject: FC: Domain names and "The Network $olution", from The Netly News *********** http://pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1155,00.html The Netly News Network (http://netlynews.com) July 10, 1997 The Network $olution by Declan McCullagh (declan(a)well.com) It could have been the perfect way to liberate the Net from the much-reviled monopoly of Network Solutions Inc., the company that handles almost all U.S. domain name registrations. Backed by well-regarded groups such as the Internet Society, the seven-page proposal promised to reduce prices, increase choices -- and best of all, really put the screws to everyone's least favorite domain name registrar. But a month before the curtain is set to lift on a host of new domains to supplement .com and .org, the ambitious plan suddenly seems as doomed as the recently extirpated Communications Decency Act. Not only did just one government, Albania, sign the "Memorandum of Understanding" (MoU), but the U.S. actively opposed it. So did Network Solutions, after they realized with gut-wrenching dismay the consequences of losing their lucrative monopoly on .com. Yesterday another group of MoU critics met in Washington to form the Open Internet Congress, which hopes to wrest control of Net governance from "hobbyists" and "volunteers" and haul it into the mainstream. "I don't want a bunch of volunteers playing around and trying to run the show. I don't want petty battles over who's in charge and who's keeping the lights on," says Andrew Sernovitz, the president of the Association for Interactive Media, which organized the summit. Sernovitz envisions a ruthlessly commercialized cyberspace that's safe for companies like IBM, Intel, NBC and Time Warner (Netly's corporate big brother) that cough up $9,000 a year to be governing members of AIM. The talk yesterday was of revolution. Sernovitz spoke about holding an Internet "Constitutional Convention" this fall. He passed out supportive columns quoting from "Common Sense" by Thomas Paine. I even heard folks call the MoU the move that will spark the online equivalent of the Boston Tea Party. (Led, presumably, by firms like Time Warner? Since that media giant also owns CNN, you can be sure the revolution will indeed be televised.) [...] -------------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is public. To join fight-censorship-announce, send "subscribe fight-censorship-announce" to majordomo(a)vorlon.mit.edu. More information is at http://www.eff.org/~declan/fc/

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Re: Response to NOI from NTIA on DNA
by Jay R. Ashworth 10 Jul '97

10 Jul '97

You wrote: > While it is true that the lines are sometimes blurry (and contentious), the > consensus of the NANOG group seems to be that these issues are indeed > important, but *not* appropriate for the NANOG list. Yup, contentious is a good word. > This topic is not appropriate because > 1) There are other lists specifically for these issues, and > 2) It does not immediately effect the guys in the trenches I used to have a pet ostrich, too. Worthy of note also is that the topic wasn't "what do you think about the NOI, or newDNS in general", but "would you learned folks comment on what _I'm_ planning to say, because I'm not perfect". > Again, I would suggest that you redirect this issue to the other lists, and > ask you to refrain from posting this to the nanog mailing list. I'd recommend that if you intend to lean on your AUP to define the topics which are appropriate for discussion on the nanog mailing list, that you re-write it to actually _provide_ guidance on that topic, rather than simply leaving fols to twist in the wind. I've been participating in mailing lists and on newsgroups for at least 10 years; if _I_ can't figure it out, I'm not the only one. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth High Technology Systems Consulting Ashworth Designer Linux: Where Do You Want To Fly Today? & Associates ka1fjx/4 "...short of hiring the Unabomber, how can I +1 813 790 7592 jra(a)baylink.com get back at them?" --Andy Cramer NIC: jra3

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NSI bulletin 097-003 | Zone file access
by David H. Holtzman 10 Jul '97

10 Jul '97

Effective immediately, Network Solutions will no longer make the .COM, .NET and .ORG zone files anonymously available via our ftp site at rs.internic.net. It has become apparent that these files are being used by spammers and domain speculators for purposes other than that for which they were intended. Network Solutions will make the files available to any organization that can demonstrate a technical need for the information. We have already contacted hundreds of groups who do use this information and given them passwords. Other organizations that feel that they need to receive this data may apply for access by sending email to hostmaster(a)internic.net. The email message should contain the following information : - A subject line stating "Zone file access" - A statement indicating they would like to have access to copies of the root zone files. This statement should indicate why they need the data - Their contact information (NIC handle, name, postal address, phone # and email address) - They should also state any organizations that they are affiliated with so that we can avoid assigning multiple accounts to one entity We will be as timely as possible in responding. Thank you. David H. Holtzman Sr VP Engineering, Network Solutions dholtz(a)internic.net

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Re: Response to NOI from NTIA on DNA
by Jay R. Ashworth 10 Jul '97

10 Jul '97

You wrote: > Hello Mr. Ashworth - As you've seen on the NANOG Web pages, an Acceptable > Use Policy was established for the mailing list at the June 1997 Tampa > meeting (see http://www.nanog.org/aup.html) So that we can follow the > guidelines of the AUP, we'd like to ask that you post future messages > about this topic to newdom(a)ar.com or one of the other DNS-specific mailing > lists. You'll find a selection of these lists on Merit's "Resources for > ISPs" Web page (http://www.merit.edu/ipma/docs/isp.html) Thanks in > advance for your cooperation. I guess I _am_ the only one who thinks that the government sticking it's nose into how we run our networks is more important than minor squabbles on whether Rickard's measurement methodologies are sound, or not. It's worthy of note that, on this not exactly low traffic mailing list, I _posted_ a request first, and only got one reply in 24 hours: Dave Crocker, saying "sure, go ahead". Whatever. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth High Technology Systems Consulting Ashworth Designer Linux: Where Do You Want To Fly Today? & Associates ka1fjx/4 "...short of hiring the Unabomber, how can I +1 813 790 7592 jra(a)baylink.com get back at them?" --Andy Cramer NIC: jra3

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Re: ATM vs. DS3
by Vadim Antonov 10 Jul '97

10 Jul '97

Karl Denninger <karl(a)Mcs.Net> wrote: >My God, someone admits it? >I've used 20% as the general ATM overhead now for almost two years, and have >been poo-pooed by lots of people claiming that it wasn't anywhere near that >bad. Now, now, that was beaten to death at many lists including NANOG. What have you been, hybernating? The ATM overhead depends a lot on small things like if you use SNAP or not, etc. --vadim

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Suspension of reissuing deleted domain names
by David H. Holtzman 10 Jul '97

10 Jul '97

In the spirit of open communication, please read the following notice re : reissuing of deleted domain domain names... Until further notice, Network Solutions will be temporarily suspending the process of deleting domain names for which payment has not been received. In recent weeks the InterNIC has been spammed repeatedly with tens of thousands of requests by domain name speculators attempting to register deleted names. The huge volume of requests received reduced customer service levels for all customers. Temporarily suspending the name deletion process will remove the motivation behind the spamming, thereby hopefully eliminating the customer service problems and also allowing time to develop an appropriate longer-term solution to the spamming problem. David H. Holtzman Sr VP Engineering, Network Solutions dholtz(a)internic.net

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