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Re: The questions stand
by John Fraizer - Administrator 21 May '98

21 May '98

At 09:43 AM 5/21/98 -0400, you wrote: >Yes, John, I've been reading NANOG long enough to be aware that there >are hundreds of ways to do it wrong. > >There are about a dozen ways to do it right, too. > >There are only about 40 ISPs in this area, OC-3 is probably overkill... >not to mention whether it's actually _available_ reasonably, but you'll >notice that's where I started. You tell the telco what you're up to and they'll gladly provision you on glass. It is much more cost effective for them than to provision (and maintain) multiple copper circuits. > >Cheers, >-- jra >-- >Jay R. Ashworth jra(a)baylink.com >Member of the Technical Staff Unsolicited Commercial Emailers Sued >The Suncoast Freenet "Two words: Darth Doogie." -- Jason Colby, >Tampa Bay, Florida on alt.fan.heinlein +1 813 790 7592 > >Managing Editor, Top Of The Key sports e-zine ------------ http://www.totk.com > > ------- John Fraizer (tvo) | __ _ | The System Administrator | / / (_)__ __ ____ __ | The choice mailto:tvo@EnterZone.Net | / /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / | of a GNU http://www.EnterZone.Net/ | /____/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ | Generation A 486 is a terrible thing to waste...

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SkyTel 2Way pagers DOWN all US
by Mark Allan Rizzo 21 May '98

21 May '98

Just wanted to inform anyone that relies on this for system notifications etc. Skytel lost a satellite feed and all of their 2-Way pagers are down. I called them and they told me that it had been down since 5:00pm CST and they hoped to have it back 'soon'. Mark Rizzo Origin Systems, INC

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Re: a little thought on exchanging traffic
by Tim Salo 20 May '98

20 May '98

> From: black(a)bleep.ishiboo.com > Subject: a little thought on exchanging traffic > To: nanog(a)merit.edu > Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 16:03:17 -0500 (EST) > > Anyone thought about eliminating large physical exchange points and replacing > them with a more distributed architecture? > > Multiple data centers interconnected over ATM in a single metro area run by > indepdenant entities who are free to provide any level of service or value > add they wish. Why restrict yourself to a single metro area? Why not simply use a nationwide ATM service? -tjs

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RE: The questions stand
by Rob Wilson 20 May '98

20 May '98

David... You'll probably never get concensus on any of the questions posed, as they are religious debates. Just peer privately.... rw -----Original Message----- From: Pickett, David [SMTP:dpickett@northc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 1998 10:56 AM To: 'nanog(a)merit.edu' Subject: The questions stand My objectives are far more pedestrian than any effort to confuse or divide the Internet community. I'm working at getting a handle on what about the NAPs does and does not work. I've seen some discussion on frames vs cells in the NAPs, and that's an interesting albeit religiously charged subject. I've heard speakers soap-boxing about the need for a decent policy-free L2 interconnect. Are we there yet? Who's heading in the right direction? Does the current NAP model meet your needs as ISPs? Do we just light more fibre or do we need a better solution? Reply to the list or to me directly. I'm all ears. David R. Pickett Northchurch Communications Inc 5 Corporate Drive Andover, MA 01080 978-691-4649

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RE: Fwd: FW: Removal from APNIC lists
by Jim Fleming 20 May '98

20 May '98

On Wednesday, May 20, 1998 12:42 PM, Eric Germann[SMTP:ekgermann@cctec.com] wrote: @My point is no one gives a shit about your politics. Since my routers are @designed as magnets to attract packets from the AP region, I could really @care less about their allocation policies, funding, etc. As long as their @addresses are magnetic, I'll take them in. :) @ You obviously did not understand the question. Let me put it in simpler and more specific terms. If someone goes to the APNIC (or RIPE for that matter) and they obtain a block of IP addresses, let's say a /16. Can they have that block advertised in North America and have packets routed to hosts located in North America ? Do any NANOG operators allow that ? - Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net/IPv8 IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM

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RE: Fwd: FW: Removal from APNIC lists
by Jim Fleming 20 May '98

20 May '98

On Wednesday, May 20, 1998 10:29 AM, Eric Germann[SMTP:ekgermann@cctec.com] wrote: @North America != Asia Pacific @ Are you saying that no router located in North America advertises routes to blocks in any of the following ranges ? In other words, if someone were to block the entire 202.x.x.x range they would be assured they would not lose any contact with North America ? http://teckla.apnic.net/annual_reports/1997/resource_status.htm#c4_1 Percentage Used ------------------------- 0% 61.x.x.x <-------- April 25, 1997 0% 169.208.x.x 0% 169.209.x.x 0% 169.210.x.x 0% 169.211.x.x 0% 169.212.x.x 0% 169.213.x.x 0% 169.214.x.x 0% 169.215.x.x 80% 202.x.x.x 80% 203.x.x.x 12% 210.x.x.x 12% 211.x.x.x ========== Do 100% of the NANOG members refuse to advertise blocks in the above ranges from facilities located in North America ? - Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net/IPv8 IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM

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a little thought on exchanging traffic
by black＠bleep.ishiboo.com 20 May '98

20 May '98

Anyone thought about eliminating large physical exchange points and replacing them with a more distributed architecture? Multiple data centers interconnected over ATM in a single metro area run by indepdenant entities who are free to provide any level of service or value add they wish. Thoughts? Ben black(a)ishiboo.com

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SKYWORD OK
by Martin, Christian 20 May '98

20 May '98

All, I just sent a test message to myself (1:30 AM EST). All seems OK. Chris

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RE: a little thought on exchanging traffic
by Pickett, David 20 May '98

20 May '98

> The fundamental problem is there are no magic pixie dust in this business. > Sure, some people like to put out press releases saying how they've solved > all the worlds problems using the Magic Frambulator. But what they've usually > done is ignored half the problem. So, just how would the members of this group characterize this problem. I am among the people who are "putting a lot of thought into this", and would like a fresh re-hash of the issues. > Or...they have designed systems that have the wrong goals... > For example, some people design routers to "attract packets" > like magnets. They design protocols for routers to tell other > routers what packets to send them. Why on earth do people > and companies want packets ? Processing packets costs > time and money. Imagine a world where routers tell other > routers what NOT to send them. Curious angle. Have route tables near the core of the network gotten so large that it would be easier to advertise what NOT to send? I am dubious. The fundamental job of an L3 forwarding agent is to apply a forwarding policy to traffic that flows through it. Whether this policy is applied as positive or negative logic makes no difference in terms of forwarding performance. By advertising which packets you DO want, you are implicitly telling a forwarding engine which packets you DON'T want at the same time. > Routers should be designed to "repel packets" and to quickly > get rid of the ones they have. By telling your neighbors that "I only want packets that meet this specific criteria" are you not actively repelling all of this packets that don't meet the criteria? > They should also be designed > to send them as quickly as possible to the place they belong > and not to some black-hole called a NAP so that people can > puff out their chests about their NAP being bigger than the > next NAP. I doubt that anyone would take issue with your requirement that L3 forwarding agents, forward traffic as quickly and accurately as possible. In the same breath, you address the highly complex and very different issue about how to interconnect these L3 devices. L3 Forwarding devices implement policy. The policies, in their most basic form, tell the forwarding agents where, when, and how to handle various classes of traffic. What happens when competitive entities need to interconnect their L3 devices in order to build a larger network? Does the current NAP model work well? Do peering agreements, as we understand them today, work and scale well? Thoughts? dp David R. Pickett Northchurch Communications Incorporated 5 Corporate Drive Andover, MA 01810 978-691-4649

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Re: SkyTel 2Way pagers DOWN all US
by John Fraizer - Administrator 20 May '98

20 May '98

>Interesting. Of course, we know from the OJ saga that Cellphones can be >located well enough to find a moving vehicle... Anyone who thinks they can hide or have a private conversation for that matter and owns a cellular phone is sadly mistaken. The fact of the matter is that it is possible to send commands to the phone from the MTSO and cause it to turn on the hands-free mic and transmit on channel xxx at a power level of yyy with a SAT tone of zzz. It is then trivial to put one of the scanning receivers in each of the cell sites in the area surrounding the LKA of the phone into receive on that channel, voting S/N on the SAT tone to get the best audio from the best receiver and piping the audio to a test jack on the switch which has a recorder/speaker/whatever connected. While we're at it, since we know you're on transmitting on channel XXX, it is trivial to DF you based on foreign-carrier-detect alarms alone within about 1000 yards. Beyond that, anyone with the most antiquated DF equipment could find you in minutes. Of course, I've never done this. Especially not with an EMX-2500. And most definitely not in Charlotte, NC while working for the B carrier there. Still, very big-brotherish. ------- John Fraizer (tvo) | __ _ | The System Administrator | / / (_)__ __ ____ __ | The choice mailto:tvo@EnterZone.Net | / /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / | of a GNU http://www.EnterZone.Net/ | /____/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ | Generation A 486 is a terrible thing to waste...

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