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Re: IRR/RADB updates vs. ANS?
by Gerald Andrew Winters 10 Nov '98

10 Nov '98

Hello Dan, > I'm looking for information on how and/or when ANS takes updated > information from the IRR databases (RADB in this case) and applies them > internally. The short answer is I do not know. I have cc'd the ans folks and I'm sure they can give a definitive answer. However, I do have some information since we administer the *public* ans database. Updates are applied immediately to the public ans database. Updates can take up to a maximum of 15 minutes to show up on our production whois.ra.net server, which mirrors the public ans database. I am using the word 'public' to indicate that ANS keeps it's own internal DB which to my knowledge is not publically viewable. What differences there are between the public ans DB and it's internal counterpart, and how ans factors the radb DB into the equation I am unsure of. > It appears that very few nets rely on the > data in the RADB, or take updated data from the RADB in near-real-time > fashion. This is an open question and obviously there are those who do not use the IRR. However, our production whois server handles ~25,000 TCP connections and 250,000 queries per day on average. We would like to see these numbers increase as we continue to try and improve the IRR environment. I'd be interested in hearing how you came to your conclusion. regards, --jerry (Merit)

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Re: time for a new list?
by Eric Kozowski 10 Nov '98

10 Nov '98

At 07:01 PM 11/2/98 , Joe Shaw wrote: > >I think moderating the group might not be such a bad idea. The only >problem with this would be getting someone who had enough time to actually >moderate the list. I don't know what is going on lately, but it seems >egos and animosity are running rampant on both inet-access and nanog. I >have been caught up in it myself, and for that I apologize. i didn't, and don't, propose a moderated list. i propose a list with some sort of subscription requirement, at least for the ability post, that will only allow nano's to post. i also propose that the list be stringently policed. one warning re: content of your postings, then your ability to post is revoked. i'd like to see a list that lives up to the intent of the nanog list, but w/o all the useless drivel and chatter. if i wanted that, i'd still be subscribed to inet-access. -- Eric Kozowski eric(a)haydenisland.verio.net Non carborundum illigitimi

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IRR/RADB updates vs. ANS?
by Daniel Senie 10 Nov '98

10 Nov '98

I'm looking for information on how and/or when ANS takes updated information from the IRR databases (RADB in this case) and applies them internally. I've got a case where a net has just been moved from one ISP to another, and while a new entry was placed in the RADB, there is no connectivity from the net in question to anyplace in ANS. >From various observations, ANS is the only net not accepting routes for this particular net. I've looked at the various looking glass servers, and of the ones I know of, everything looks OK (and indeed connectivity is OK). Are there any looking glass capabilities to see what ANS is routing? One guess is that ANS only takes new data from the RADB on a set schedule and insufficient time has elapsed for that data to reach their internal files. I've got a number of other nets to be moved shortly, so I'd really like to be clear on how this works. It appears that very few nets rely on the data in the RADB, or take updated data from the RADB in near-real-time fashion. Any/all info appreciated. Dan -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel Senie dts(a)senie.com Amaranth Networks Inc. http://www.amaranthnetworks.com

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FCC Ruling, Cost of Internet
by Ivars Upatnieks 10 Nov '98

10 Nov '98

FROM FCC DAILY DIGEST: FCC SAYS GTE'S ADSL INTERNET ACCESS SERVICES IS AN INTERSTATE SERVICE. <snip> The Commission intends to address next week, in a separate order, the broader issue of whether conventional dial-up access to the Internet, made through calls to information service providers, including Internet Service Providers (ISPs), is local or interstate in nature. That decision will address whether incumbent local telephone companies may be required to compensate their competitors for handling calls made by the incumbents' customers to ISPs that are the competitors' customers. Report No: CC-98-41. by MO&O. Action by: the Commission. Adopted: October 30, 1998. (FCC No. 98-292) CCB. ENGLISH TRANSLATION: why is this important? Most ISP's in Michigan purchase dialtone from Competitive Local Exchange Carriers(CLEC) at discounted rates from traditional Ameritech services and thus provide services at lower cost to consumers. If Internet access through CLEC's is deemed to be interstate telecommunications traffic, per minute tariff charges would begin to apply for calls delivered via CLEC's. This could mean a dramatic increase (on the order of 1-2 cents per minute) for Internet access. Additional information on the GTE "test" case can be found at http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Common_Carrier/News_Releases/1998/nrcc8081.html --------- Ivars Upatnieks v (734)998-0090 ICNet, Inc. f (734)998-0816 2901 Hubbard e ivars(a)ic.net Ann Arbor, MI 48105 www.ic.net

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MBONE transmission
by Richard Irving 09 Nov '98

09 Nov '98

So, does netrail have operation QoS ? It is conference quality, at least.... See MBONE sessions Source Response Dest Packet Statistics For Only For Traffic 209.44.92.7 216.37.1.1 All Multicast Traffic From 209.44.92.7 | __/ rtt 83 ms Lost/Sent = Pct Rate To 224.2.156.45 v / hop 83 ms --------------------- -------------------- 209.44.92.2 nanog2.netrail.net | ^ ttl 16 v | hop -113 s 60/467 = 13% 46 pps 31/254 = 12% 25 pps 198.108.2.20 mbone.merit.edu | ^ ttl 64 v | hop 113 s -1/407 = 0% 40 pps -1/223 = 0% 22 pps 204.70.98.29 dec3800-1-fddi-0.NorthRoyalton.cw.net | ^ ttl 65 v | hop 19 ms 0/408 = 0% 40 pps 0/224 = 0% 22 pps 204.70.104.45 dec3800-1-fddi-1.WillowSprings.cw.net | ^ ttl 66 v | hop 104 s 25/408 = 6% 40 pps 13/224 = 6% 22 pps 207.112.240.150 mrouter.chi2.nap.net | ^ ttl 67 v | hop -104 s 0/429 = 0% 42 pps 0/211 = 0% 21 pps 216.37.0.4 207.7.18.3 OCCIndy-0C3-Ether-OCC.onecall.net | \__ ttl 68 v \ hop 0 ms 394 39 pps 211 21 pps 207.7.18.5 216.37.1.1 Receiver Query Source -------------------------------------------------------------- Source Response Dest Packet Statistics For Only For Traffic 209.44.92.2 216.37.1.1 All Multicast Traffic From 209.44.92.2 | __/ rtt 83 ms Lost/Sent = Pct Rate To 224.2.162.63 v / hop 83 ms --------------------- -------------------- 209.44.92.2 nanog2.netrail.net | ^ ttl 16 v | hop -113 s 63/452 = 14% 45 pps 23/182 = 13% 18 pps 198.108.2.20 mbone.merit.edu | ^ ttl 64 v | hop 113 s 0/389 = 0% 38 pps 0/159 = 0% 15 pps 204.70.98.29 dec3800-1-fddi-0.NorthRoyalton.cw.net | ^ ttl 65 v | hop 20 ms 0/389 = 0% 38 pps 0/159 = 0% 15 pps 204.70.104.45 dec3800-1-fddi-1.WillowSprings.cw.net | ^ ttl 66 v | hop 104 s 83/453 = 18% 45 pps 6/159 = 4% 15 pps 207.112.240.150 mrouter.chi2.nap.net | ^ ttl 67 v | hop -104 s 1/457 = 0% 45 pps 0/153 = 0% 15 pps 216.37.0.4 207.7.18.3 OCCIndy-0C3-Ether-OCC.onecall.net | \__ ttl 68 v \ hop 0 ms 379 37 pps 153 15 pps 207.7.18.5 216.37.1.1 Receiver Query Source

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Sprint routing problems 11/7 & 11/8
by York, Tracy (Atlanta) 09 Nov '98

09 Nov '98

Did anyone hear about or see problems on Sprint Internet this past weekend (11/7 &11/8)? If so, where can I find some detailed info on the problems (cause, solution, etc.)? Thx Tracy York Network Manager AutoConnect L.L.C. 404.843.7428 404.843.5484 fax tracy.york(a)autoconnect.com www.autoconnect.com We are born naked, wet and hungry. Then things get worse.

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RE: ARIN?
by I Am Not An Isp 09 Nov '98

09 Nov '98

At 12:11 AM 11/5/98 -0800, Gary E. Miller wrote: >I think you need to take a serious look at how little of their >address space they have really used. This is not funny when I have >to kill to allocate /30. Some animals are more equal than others >on THIS farm. I know a little bit about @Home, but not as much as the people who work there, so feel free to yell & scream if I mess this up. I do believe you are correct in your implication that @Home does not utilize address space quite as efficiently as most traditional ISPs. However, they are under a greater burden than your traditional ISP. Most of the equipment they were forced to use in the "early days", and possibly a good deal of it today, is not what I would call "optimal". They are forced to allocate /24s to some cable routers no matter how few customers there are on that router. Most do not understand classless IP, or even basic subnetting. Etc., etc. The point is, the people I know at @Home do try very hard to use their IP space within reason. But there are some things they just can not do. There are two sides to every story. (Well, almost every story.... ;) >Gary E. Miller Rellim 2680 Bayshore Pkwy, #202 Mountain View, CA 94043-1009 TTFN, patrick I Am Not An Isp www.ianai.net "Think of it as evolution in action." - Niven & Pournelle

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Strange BGP announcement.
by Neil J. McRae 09 Nov '98

09 Nov '98

Aug 6 13:46:20 BGP RECV 207.45.199.225+179 -> 207.45.199.226+1935 Aug 6 13:46:20 BGP RECV message type 2 (Update) length 71 Aug 6 13:46:20 BGP RECV flags 0x40 code Origin(1): Incomplete Aug 6 13:46:20 BGP RECV flags 0x40 code ASPath(2): 6453 701 65525 ((65523)) 356 1 1691 Aug 6 13:46:20 BGP RECV flags 0x40 code NextHop(3): 207.45.199.225 Aug 6 13:46:20 BGP RECV 204.174.40/24, 204.239.26/24, 204.239.27/24, 204 .239.147/24 Aug 6 13:46:20 Aug 6 13:46:20 bnp_path_attr_eer: peer 207.45.199.225 (External AS 6453) bad up date send NOTIFY flag 0 type 0 err_subcode 11, data 0 Aug 6 13:46:20 NOTIFICATION sent to 207.45.199.225 (External AS 6453): code 3 ( Update Message Error) subcode 11 (AS path attribute problem) data Aug 6 13:46:20 Aug 6 13:46:20 BGP SEND 207.45.199.226+1935 -> 207.45.199.225+179 Aug 6 13:46:20 BGP SEND message type 3 (Notification) length 21 Aug 6 13:46:20 BGP SEND Notification code 3 (Update Message Error) subcode 11 ( AS path attribute problem) Aug 6 13:46:20 Regards, Neil. -- Neil J. McRae. Alive and Kicking. Domino: In the glow of the night neil(a)DOMINO.ORG NetBSD-1.3 released! ftp://ftp.uk.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD Free the daemon in your <A HREF="http://www.NetBSD.ORG/">computer!</A>

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RE: ARIN
by Jeff Mohler 09 Nov '98

09 Nov '98

[Someone with a clue one said...*grin*] Hrmmmm, you have a major point. Suppose only routers costing 6 figures or more could do CIDR, while routers costing, say, four figures could do RIPv1? Should we give someone a large block to get "up and running" until they could afford the much more expensive routers? (stuff deleted) See, I just don't think "Address Space" should be a barrier to entry. It's not like ARIN *owns* the space, they're just the caretaker for the IPv4 space in America for the "community". As a member of the community, I want them to be fugal to avoid waste. But unusually large (and temporary) allocations to allow a company to enter the market - a company that would otherwise have to perform Herculean tasks, tasks none of the rest of us have ever had to perform, or maybe even tasks impossible with the State of the Art - is not, IMHO, waste. --- What about the case of an NSP looking to obtain a block to begin business with? A case where the parent company (via direct ownership and mergers) holds a couple of /16 allocations across a nationwide LAN infrastructure, and at the same time is not able to deliver to a spinoff arm of the company a 'clean' chunk of space to bring up a very large Internet Backbone. At the same time, the parent company has 0 SWIP documentation of the existing /16s and is still about 18 months away from a total migration to 10.x.x.x space internally. What is ARINs job at this point? To force the spinoff to document the IP allocations within the Sister company before they allow you to do business, or based on the current and future deployment (and CIDR capabilities) allocate sufficient address space to allow the business to launch and grow.

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Re: Strange BGP announcement.
by Dave Curado 09 Nov '98

09 Nov '98

> Since this isn't directly my upstream's problem I've edited them out of the > log (actually, this could have come from more than one of my upstreams) > > Nov 8 17:45:26 BGP RECV x.x.x.x+179 -> x.x.x.x+1161 > Nov 8 17:45:26 BGP RECV message type 2 (Update) length 64 > Nov 8 17:45:26 BGP RECV flags 0x40 code Origin(1): Incomplete > Nov 8 17:45:26 BGP RECV flags 0x40 code ASPath(2): (0x02 0x07 0x0f 0x7f 0x02 0xbd 0x0d 0xa5 0x03 0x30 0x03 0x2f 0x03 0x2e) > Nov 8 17:45:26 BGP RECV flags 0x40 code NextHop(3): x.x.x.x > Nov 8 17:45:26 BGP RECV flags 0xc0 code Aggregator(7): 6218 206.53.128.254 > Nov 8 17:45:26 BGP RECV 206.148.144/22 > Nov 8 17:45:26 > Nov 8 17:45:26 bnp_path_attr_eer: peer x.x.x.x (External AS yyyy) bad update send NOTIFY flag 0 type 0 err_subcode 11, data 0 > Nov 8 17:45:26 NOTIFICATION sent to x.x.x.x (External AS yyyy): code 3 (Update Message Error) subcode 11 (AS path attribute problem) data > Nov 8 17:45:26 > Nov 8 17:45:26 BGP SEND x.x.x.x+1161 -> x.x.x.x+179 > Nov 8 17:45:26 BGP SEND message type 3 (Notification) length 21 > Nov 8 17:45:26 BGP SEND Notification code 3 (Update Message Error) subcode 11 (AS path attribute problem) > Nov 8 17:45:26 > > (We saw the problem start around 1640 GMT tonight) > > Problem at AS6218 perhaps ? (of course if this is the result of some > random corruption that can't be relied on... ) > > Anyone else see anything ? Another note on this, I wasn't able to stop the updates with a filter-list... perhaps because the AS path is problematic. I had to use a distribute list instead, listing each of the networks that 6218 is aggregating for... Not sure if this affects anyone else or not, but: access-list 21 deny 206.53.128.0 0.0.3.255 access-list 21 deny 206.53.128.0 0.0.0.255 access-list 21 deny 206.53.129.0 0.0.0.255 access-list 21 deny 206.53.130.0 0.0.0.255 access-list 21 deny 206.53.131.0 0.0.0.255 access-list 21 deny 206.148.144.0 0.0.3.255 access-list 21 deny 206.190.224.0 0.0.0.255 access-list 21 permit any davec

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