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rbl-discuss@puck.nether.net
by Jared Mauch 20 Nov '98

20 Nov '98

new mailing list out there. rbl-discuss(a)puck.nether.net for discussion of rbl type filtering, consequences, etc. to get on: send mail to rbl-discuss-request(a)puck.nether.net subject: subscribe to get off: (insert pun here) send mail to rbl-discuss-request(a)puck.nether.net subject: unsubscribe -- Jared Mauch | pgp key available via finger from jared(a)puck.nether.net clue++; | http://puck.nether.net/~jared/

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Re: Digital Bill of Rights
by Jeff Mcadams 20 Nov '98

20 Nov '98

Thus spake Bob Allisat > There is absolutely no reason for > ISPs to do *anything*. Except for > implementing a USER CONFIGURABLE > INTERFACE that allows personal > filtering of E-Mail *before* it > is downloaded. I called this the > ALLISAT INDEX once upon a time > but what is a name? Well...Bob, while I think you're a raving lunatic...guess what? You can do this with the RBL as it stands! At least our MTA allowed us to set it up this way...It's not something that can be decided on the fly when a specific piece of email is retrieved (say through Eudora), but its a setting that our users set on whether to use RBL or not. Isn't that a radical idea...that ISP's can implement things how they want because its their equipment. Now, please...take your raving lunacies. We can't help it if you can't figure out how to configure your MTA like you wish. (My apologies if this is more noise than signal...I can't believe I'm actually responding to Bob...sheesh...hopefully its at least *somewhat* operationally related since it involves MTA config) For what its worth...our MTA (exim in our shop) allows us to set an RBL warning on messages globally, but not block them on a system-wide level. This then let's our users configure procmail, filter, or even an exim filter to dump any messages which have the RBL warning on them. Incidentally, we have a system level service the users can "sign up" for (its set up in our billing system as a seperate account type, but its free) that will accomplish this basically at the system level...but again, its user specific. -- Jeff McAdams Email: jeffm(a)iglou.com Head Network Administrator Voice: (502) 966-3848 IgLou Internet Services (800) 436-4456

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RE: Digital Bill of Rights
by owen＠dixon.DeLong.SJ.CA.US 20 Nov '98

20 Nov '98

Bob, Buy a clue. Noone can blackhole mail directed at you unless it is traversing their server. Given the nature of SMTP, this should mean that the host falls into one of the following categories: A machine owned by the Sender. A machine owned by someone the Sender has a transit agreement with. A machine owned by someone you have a transit agreement with. A machine owned by you. Of course, in reality, there is an additional category which you seem to be saying should be forced to carry said traffic, but which in fact should not: A machine not owned by you, the sender, or anyone you have a transit agreement with, from which you or the sender are attempting to steal service for the purpose of mail relay. The internet is not a federally funded or government enterprise, and is not a regulated monopoly. As such, there is no universal service requirement. Any person who owns a computer or pays for a network link has the right to choose how that network link is used. If they choose to allow Paul Vixie and his group to assist them in determining sources from which they don't want to receive traffic, that is the prerogative of the person paying for the equipment. I don't have a right to prevent the USPS from delivering you mail. However, if I opened a shipping company, I would have the right to refuse to accept packages with your address as a destination, and I would certainly have the right to refuse to accept packages from you. If a group of shipping companies agreed to subscribe to a service allowing them to share the names/addresses of abusive customers, then that would be kosher too. Noone is treading on your rights, and what Paul is doing is not the act of a vigilante. Paul has not forced anyone to subscribe to his service. Paul could charge for this service. The fact that he chooses to provide this service for free (at significant personal expense, I might add) is testament to his community-mindedness. A vigilante is someone who takes the law into their own hands without consent of the effected parties. Paul is merely providing a service which people can subscribe to which allows those people to choose who they provide or do not provide service to. The choices are based on well documented and published criteria. It is much easier to get off the RBL than to get on. Paul and his team are, in my experience, usually very thorough in their investigations prior to adding a spammer to the RBL, and they tend to target as specifically as possible the smallest number of hosts which will stop the problem. If you don't like what Paul is doing, you are welcome to not subscribe to his list and put the necessary infrastructure in place to assure that none of the systems in the last two categories is subscribed. Then, the only way anyone will block mail to you is if the sender is using machines that have chosen not to carry the senders traffic. Owen > In my opinion all this RBL nonsense is > vastly more destructive in the long > term than a few ad e-mails. You may > agree to disagree. That too is your > right. However you still may not block, > manipulate or deny any mail directed at > me. *UNLESS* I explicitly give you that > permission. Otherwise - buzz of boys. > You're treading on dangerous ground. > > Bob Allisat > > Free Community Network _ bob(a)fcn.net . http://fcn.net > http://fcn.net/allisat _ http://fcn.net/draft > >

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Re: Digital Bill of Rights
by Bob Allisat 20 Nov '98

20 Nov '98

Chris Cappuccio wrote > OK Bob, what do you propose as an alternative to MAPS/RBL that > will force ISPs regardless of size (local provider with 100 > dialups to MSN), and providers regardless of infrastructure, to > enforce a commonly agreed upon rule? There is absolutely no reason for ISPs to do *anything*. Except for implementing a USER CONFIGURABLE INTERFACE that allows personal filtering of E-Mail *before* it is downloaded. I called this the ALLISAT INDEX once upon a time but what is a name? The concept is relatively simple. First let me say I hate that commercial shit e-mail just like anyone else. However - rarely - once in a hundred junk mails - there is actually something of interest. Surprise, surprise! Regardless... if Eudora had a nice Dialogue box that popped up allowing me to tell my mail server exactly what I wanted deleted - be that a stupid black list like Vixie's or some other filter template - I would be very happy. But I also want the bloody choice on any and every Public level ISP to recieve *EVERYTHING*. ALL the junk, all the trash, as in everything. ISP's have no other job but sending streams of stuff to and fro. It is my job, as an individual to determine what is "signal" and what is "noise". ISP's open very dangerous doors when they venture anywhere near content censorship. So I say back off! It's none of your damned business where anything comes from or where it's going. Period. Bob Allisat Free Community Network _ bob(a)fcn.net . http://fcn.net http://fcn.net/allisat _ http://fcn.net/draft

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The Cidr Report
by Tony Bates 20 Nov '98

20 Nov '98

This is an auto-generated mail on Fri Nov 20 12:00:00 PST 1998 It is not checked before it leaves my workstation. However, hopefully you will find this report interesting and will take the time to look through this to see if you can improve the amount of aggregation you perform. The report is split into sections: 0) General Status List the route table history for the last week, list any possibly bogus routes seen and give some status on ASes. 1) Gains by aggregating at the origin AS level This lists the "Top 30" players who if they decided to aggregate their announced classful prefixes at the origin AS level could make a significant difference in the reduction of the current size of the Internet routing table. This calculation does not take into account the inclusion of holes when forming an aggregate so it is possible even larger reduction should be possible. 2) Weekly Delta A summary of the last weeks changes in terms of withdrawn and added routes. Please note that this is only a snapshot but does give some indication of ASes participating in CIDR. Clearly, it is generally a good thing to see a large amont of withdrawls. 3) Interesting aggregates Interesting here means not an aggregate made as a set of classful routes. Thanks to xara.net for giving me access to their routing tables once a day. Please send any comments about this report directly to me. Check http://www.employees.org/~tbates/cidr-report.html for a daily update of this report. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ CIDR REPORT for 20Nov98 0) General Status Table History ------------- Date Prefixes 131198 53601 141198 53727 151198 53552 161198 55111 171198 55374 181198 55152 191198 54897 201198 54986 Check http://www.employees.org/~tbates/cidr.plot.html for a plot of the table history. Possible Bogus Routes --------------------- AS Summary ---------- Number of ASes in routing system: 4227 Number of ASes announcing only one prefix: 2060 (1080 cidr, 980 classful) Largest number of cidr routes: 339 announced by AS3561 Largest number of classful routes: 1083 announced by AS3909 1) Gains by aggregating at the origin AS level --- 20Nov98 --- ASnum NetsNow NetsCIDR NetGain % Gain Description AS3909 1083 567 516 47.6% Supernet, Inc. AS271 347 151 196 56.5% BCnet Backbone AS3749 230 70 160 69.6% TECNET AS2493 347 197 150 43.2% iSTAR Internet, Inc. AS1785 534 399 135 25.3% NYSERNet Backbone AS701 986 854 132 13.4% Alternet AS174 689 557 132 19.2% Performance Systems International AS4200 187 95 92 49.2% AGIS (Apex Global Information Ser AS5668 126 39 87 69.0% Century Telephone Inc. AS1267 108 29 79 73.1% IUNET-AS AS4755 134 60 74 55.2% Videsh Sanchar Nigam Ltd. India AS4293 207 135 72 34.8% IMCI AS549 222 158 64 28.8% ONet Backbone AS4740 374 317 57 15.2% Ozemail Pty Ltd (ASN-OZEMAIL) AS7046 254 198 56 22.0% UUNET-CUSTOMER AS8517 126 72 54 42.9% ULAKNET-ASN AS6335 71 19 52 73.2% NTRNET AS7545 117 66 51 43.6% TPG Internet Pty Ltd AS72 88 40 48 54.5% Schlumberger Information Network AS1239 528 480 48 9.1% SprintLink Backbone AS1221 363 316 47 12.9% AARNET-AS AS803 77 33 44 57.1% SaskNet Backbone AS7122 128 85 43 33.6% MTS ADVANCED Network Policy AS10928 91 48 43 47.3% UNKNOWN AS3221 84 42 42 50.0% EENet Autonomous System AS852 167 126 41 24.6% AGT Advance Communication AS3804 183 143 40 21.9% Bell Solutions AS719 436 400 36 8.3% LANLINK autonomous system AS7657 96 61 35 36.5% The Internet Group Limited AS7496 66 33 33 50.0% Power Up For the rest of the previous weeks gain information please see http://www.employees.org:80/~tbates/cidr-report.html 2) Weekly Delta Please see http://www.employees.org:80/~tbates/cidr-report.html for this part of the report 3) Interesting aggregates Please see http://www.employees.org:80/~tbates/cidr-report.html for this part of the report

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ORBS: Another Vigilante Group
by Bob Allisat 20 Nov '98

20 Nov '98

I guess we have another vigilante delusional on the network with these juvenilles and their "open relay" so-called testing. I wonder if other persons on this list have had their systems attacked in a similar manner to our servers? I also wonder what damage this does to the perception of the network increasingly spiralling into a mere collection of random acts by arbitrary mentally incapable hackers. Bob Allisat Free Community Network _ bob(a)fcn.net . http://fcn.net http://fcn.net/allisat _ http://fcn.net/draft ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:39:28 -0800 From: orbs(a)auto.dorkslayers.com To: bob(a)fcn.net Subject: your E-mail to orbs(a)auto.dorkslayers.com Thank you for sending mail to ORBS. You will not receive another response, other than this message, from ORBS unless your message contains: 1) A request for our DNS transfer-mode agreement. 2) A request for updates to our web site. 3) Information of interest regarding a relay that my site says is closed but you have verified is not. 4) Other information of direct interest to the site maintainer (like lists of open relays, etc.) 5) A request for a manual test of one or more servers that you maintain to verify that you have indeed fixed your open relay. I may take a while to respond, if I haven't gotten back to you in a week, poke me again. You can just remove your server from the list via the web page, if it's still open it will be re-added and you will receive another blocking notification. 6) Details of the relay prevention measures in place on your server, that can be verified from outside, if you are asking to be removed from our list but your server still fails a simple relay test. Note that these should include the inability to send to more than 5 recipients per message, or an exponential time delay on a per-recipient basis, of substantial enough duration to deter spammers. Note that if I unblock you due to such measures and subsequently receive proof of spam received via your server, that you will be blocked again until you completely disable relay. All other messages will be discarded unanswered, unless I'm bored, which doesn't happen often. Note that abusive or threatening messages may be posted to various anti-spam forums, at my discretion. Your question or statement is most likely addressed below. ----- ORBS Frequently Asked Questions Q) Help! My E-mail is being blocked and I don't understand the error messages or what's going on. A) Talk to whoever runs your mail server, they have a problem that needs to be fixed. Yes, really, regardless of what they tell you (this includes Netcom users). Q) I have fixed my open relay, please take me off your list. A) Please use our web site tools as instructed in the notification message. Our resources are limited and we cannot spend time doing things for which there are automated tools. See: http://www.dorkslayers.com/orbs/closed1.cgi Q) Ok, already, my relay's fixed but you keep trying to send test messages through it. A) Sorry, for reliability sake, our test program tests every 6 hours for 3 days unless a test makes it through. The tests will stop after that time and no one will be able to submit your IP address for further testing without manual intervention on our part. Q) I've removed my closed relay using your web page but sites are still blocking my mail. A) It can take up to 6 hours for changes made to the database to make it into the ORBS zone and be propogated to all subscriber sites. Sorry for the delay. Q) How do I know you're not a spammer or hacker? A) Post a query to SPAM-L, spamtools, or news.admin.net-abuse.email. We are well known in the anti-spam community and others will vouch for what we do. Q) We use Spamshield which lets our users relay but stops spammers. A) No, it doesn't. I used to accept this but received numerous examples of spam received via Spamshield-protected servers. Check out POP before SMTP instead, it actually works. Q) ORBS made a mistake. Our server doesn't permit relay, or there is no mail server at the address you've blocked. A) You'd be surprised how often I hear this. Let me assure you, there has been no mistake. Your server will not be placed on the list unless my 'bot successfully injects an E-mail message into the IP address you were told about, and that E-mail message makes it back out to the testing address. No exceptions. Of the dozens of systems people have told me I've made a mistake on, not one has been valid. I will no longer respond to these messages. Q) I know our server is open, but I can't fix it yet. Please don't publish the address or spammers will use it. A) I don't "publish" the addresses on the list. The list is made available as a DNS zone that can be queried by servers before they accept mail from anywhere. If they find that the remote address is present in the zone, they may choose to reject the message, they may choose to add a Header field telling the recipient that the remote server is on the list, or they may do nothing. In any case, they at no time have access to the contents of the list. Q) I don't understand why I have been placed on your list, and I am the administrator of my mail server. A) You are not qualified to administer your mail server. Hire someone who is. Give them the message we sent you and point them to our web site. Q) I don't know how to close my relay, help me. A) Check out http://www.dorkslayers.com/orbs/blockedadmin.cgi There are links at the bottom of the page to sites with that information. We also list some consultants who may be able to help you. You can also do a web search for relay restriction and related terms, there are lots of resources out there. If you use a commercial MTA, call your vendor or access their support resources. Q) My current MTA cannot restrict relay. A) Unplug it. Spend $49.00 on a RedHat CD and install it. Q) I'm going to sue you if you don't take me off your list. A) Be my guest. Since mail can't be blocked by my list directly (the recipient must choose to use my list to block mail), liability really belongs to those using my list. (and yes, either the recipient of your message or their system administrator has _chosen_ to use the ORBS list to block mail). US courts have consistently upheld that recipients have the right to block based on whatever criteria they choose. Also, your server gets on my list for one reason only - it permits third-party relay. This is tested prior to your server being placed on the list. Consequently, my listing your server is a statement of fact, since I only claim that your system has failed a relay test, and cannot be considered libellous. You would be better advised to spend the money on a consultant who can close your open relay for you. Q) I need to run an open relay for my remote users. Please take me off your list. A) No. Check out authenticated SMTP, POP before SMTP or POP XMIT. If MSN and Geocities can finally fix their relays, so can you. Q) I've fixed my relay and reported it to your list, but my mail's still being blocked. A) If the web page reports that you are no longer on our list, it may still take a couple of hours to make into the DNS system. Sorry for the delay. Q) Please send me details of the spamming incident which resulted in our being added to your list. A) I cannot. I don't have that information. Q) Who reported my relay to your site? A) I don't record that information. Q) Who gave you the authority to play God or to police the Internet? A) I don't. I provide a free service that many sites find valuable, a service which helps them combat a huge problem - relay spam. Many ORBS users have written to tell me that ORBS is their single most effective tool for stopping spam. You can't argue with success. Q) Why should we take you seriously with a name like Dorkslayers, or with invalid InterNIC contact info? A) Why should I care if you take me seriously? It's your E-mail. ---- Bob Allisat Free Community Network _ bob(a)fcn.net . http://fcn.net http://fcn.net/allisat _ http://fcn.net/draft

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ORBS Relay "Test" FCN ATTACK
by Bob Allisat 20 Nov '98

20 Nov '98

To whom it may concern, At 16:31 EST, an attempt to do unauthorized mail relaying through the scriba.org/FCN.NET server was made from your system. None of your users have been authorized to do so, and as such, it is being viewed at as a very serious matter. This server does not authorize non-local users to relay mail. Attempts, however, are logged. Allow us to remind you that the use of other people's domain and user names may be pursued in a court of law for breach of international copyright laws and impersonation. Today's attack was very distasteful in behavior: not closing connections properly, no proper from-line in the SMTP envelope, non-local user relay attempt, and on top of this several attempts in very few seconds. Attempting to do anything like this again may cause a lawsuit for the attempt of breaking the system. Please halt this activitiy, or risk legal action. Gard SCRIBA/FCN System Administrator PS - We have repeatedly tried to e-mail the originators of the attack but our mail has been filtered from this site. Further, our server has been attacked several time more over the course of this afternoon. We have several reccomendations to make to other people who may wish to work more constructively in this regard: - If you wish to engage in these activities obtain the permission of the Server Admin *before* attacking their machines. - Keep a database of servers you have tested (after obtaining permission) for future referance and do not repeat your actions. respectfully, Bob Allisat Free Community Network _ bob(a)fcn.net . http://fcn.net http://fcn.net/allisat _ http://fcn.net/draft To: <orbs(a)dorkslayers.com>, <nanog(a)merit.edu> Cc: <abuse(a)dorkslayers.com>, <postmaster(a)dorkslayers.com>, <admin(a)dorkslayers.com>, <abuse(a)simkin.com, postmaster(a)simkin.com>, <admin(a)simkin.com>, <sword(a)dorkslayers.com>, <ahodgson(a)simkin.com> ________________________________________________________________ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Return-Path: junkmail Received: (from root@localhost) by scriba.org (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA23362 for junkmail; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:32:02 -0500 Received: from [199.175.137.111:2905] by scriba.org with SLIME; Thu Nov 19 16:32:01 1998 X-Slime-scriba.org: Sender= To: dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com From: sender(a)dorkslayers.com Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 01:51:21 GMT X-Token: closhouv X-Envelope-Sender: <null> Message-Id: <208.222.122.049(a)skynet.simkin.com> Subject: ORBS Relay Test X-Slime-Status: Junk X-Slime-Recepients: <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> This program tests for open relays. Open relays will automatically be added to the Dorkslayers Open Relay Blocking List (see http://www.dorkslayers.com/orbs/) Do not use the above addresses to contact me - use orbs(a)dorkslayers.com. ---------- Slime LOG ---------- Thu Nov 19 16:31:30 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2892] Connect Thu Nov 19 16:31:31 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2892] : HELO skynet.simkin.com Thu Nov 19 16:31:31 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2892] : MAIL FROM: <sender(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:31 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2892] : RCPT TO: <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:31 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2892] ERROR! Attempt to relay mail to <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:31 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2893] Connect Thu Nov 19 16:31:32 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2893] : HELO skynet.simkin.com Thu Nov 19 16:31:34 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2893] : MAIL FROM: <> Thu Nov 19 16:31:34 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2893] ERROR! No @ sign in from: <> Thu Nov 19 16:31:34 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2893] : RCPT TO: <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:35 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2893] : DATA Thu Nov 19 16:31:35 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2893] From=junkmail Rcpt=junkmail Thu Nov 19 16:31:35 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2893] Sendmail=0 Thu Nov 19 16:31:36 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2893] : QUIT Thu Nov 19 16:31:36 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2893] Exiting Thu Nov 19 16:31:36 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2895] Connect Thu Nov 19 16:31:37 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2895] : HELO skynet.simkin.com Thu Nov 19 16:31:37 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2895] : MAIL FROM: <sender(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:37 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2895] : RCPT TO: <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:37 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2895] ERROR! Attempt to relay mail to <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:38 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2897] Connect Thu Nov 19 16:31:38 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2897] : HELO skynet.simkin.com Thu Nov 19 16:31:38 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2897] : MAIL FROM: <> Thu Nov 19 16:31:38 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2897] ERROR! No @ sign in from: <> Thu Nov 19 16:31:38 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2897] : RCPT TO: <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:39 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2897] : DATA Thu Nov 19 16:31:40 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2897] From=junkmail Rcpt=junkmail Thu Nov 19 16:31:40 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2897] Sendmail=0 Thu Nov 19 16:31:40 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2897] : QUIT Thu Nov 19 16:31:40 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2897] Exiting Thu Nov 19 16:31:45 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2898] Connect Thu Nov 19 16:31:48 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2898] : HELO skynet.simkin.com Thu Nov 19 16:31:49 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2898] : MAIL FROM: <sender(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:49 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2898] : RCPT TO: <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:49 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2898] ERROR! Attempt to relay mail to <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:49 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2899] Connect Thu Nov 19 16:31:50 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2899] : HELO skynet.simkin.com Thu Nov 19 16:31:50 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2899] : MAIL FROM: <> Thu Nov 19 16:31:50 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2899] ERROR! No @ sign in from: <> Thu Nov 19 16:31:52 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2899] : RCPT TO: <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:52 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2899] : DATA Thu Nov 19 16:31:52 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2899] From=junkmail Rcpt=junkmail Thu Nov 19 16:31:53 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2899] Sendmail=0 Thu Nov 19 16:31:53 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2899] : QUIT Thu Nov 19 16:31:53 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2899] Exiting Thu Nov 19 16:31:54 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2902] Connect Thu Nov 19 16:31:55 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2902] : HELO skynet.simkin.com Thu Nov 19 16:31:55 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2902] : MAIL FROM: <sender(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:56 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2902] : RCPT TO: <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:56 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2902] ERROR! Attempt to relay mail to <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:57 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2903] Connect Thu Nov 19 16:31:57 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2903] : HELO skynet.simkin.com Thu Nov 19 16:31:57 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2903] : MAIL FROM: <> Thu Nov 19 16:31:57 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2903] ERROR! No @ sign in from: <> Thu Nov 19 16:31:57 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2903] : RCPT TO: <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:58 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2903] : DATA Thu Nov 19 16:31:58 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2903] From=junkmail Rcpt=junkmail Thu Nov 19 16:31:58 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2903] Sendmail=0 Thu Nov 19 16:31:59 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2903] : QUIT Thu Nov 19 16:31:59 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2903] Exiting Thu Nov 19 16:31:59 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2904] Connect Thu Nov 19 16:32:00 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2904] : HELO skynet.simkin.com Thu Nov 19 16:32:00 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2904] : MAIL FROM: <sender(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:32:00 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2904] : RCPT TO: <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:32:00 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2904] ERROR! Attempt to relay mail to <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:32:01 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2905] Connect Thu Nov 19 16:32:01 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2905] : HELO skynet.simkin.com Thu Nov 19 16:32:01 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2905] : MAIL FROM: <> Thu Nov 19 16:32:01 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2905] ERROR! No @ sign in from: <> Thu Nov 19 16:32:01 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2905] : RCPT TO: <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:32:02 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2905] : DATA Thu Nov 19 16:32:02 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2905] From=junkmail Rcpt=junkmail Thu Nov 19 16:32:02 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2905] Sendmail=0 Thu Nov 19 16:32:03 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2905] : QUIT Thu Nov 19 16:32:03 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2905] Exiting Thu Nov 19 16:32:31 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2892] Idle too long - closing Thu Nov 19 16:32:37 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2895] Idle too long - closing Thu Nov 19 16:32:49 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2898] Idle too long - closing Thu Nov 19 16:32:56 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2902] Idle too long - closing Thu Nov 19 16:33:01 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2904] Idle too long - closing ---------- Further information ---------- Internic information for dorkslayers.com: Dorkslayers International (DORKSLAYERS-DOM) 1430 - 405 Granville St. Vancouver, BC V6C 1T2 CA Domain Name: DORKSLAYERS.COM Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Sword, Dorkslayers (DS6585) sword(a)DORKSLAYERS.COM +1 (604) 555-5555 (FAX) +1 (604) 555-5555 Billing Contact: Sword, Dorkslayers (DS6585) sword(a)DORKSLAYERS.COM +1 (604) 555-5555 (FAX) +1 (604) 555-5555 199.175.137.111 is skynet.simkin.com Internic information for simkin.com: Simkin Network Consulting (SIMKIN-DOM) Suite 1430, 405 Granville St. Vancouver, BC V6C 1T2 CA Domain Name: SIMKIN.COM Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Hodgson, Alan J [Systems Specialist] (AH52) ahodgson(a)SIMKIN.COM +1 (604) 555-1234 ext. 103 (FAX) +1 (604) 555-4321 Billing Contact: Hodgson, Alan J [Systems Specialist] (AH52) ahodgson(a)SIMKIN.COM +1 (604) 555-1234 ext. 103 (FAX) +1 (604) 555-4321 Information on 199.175.137.111 from ARIN [No name] (SKYNE7-HST) SKYNET.SIMKIN.COM 199.175.137.111 ________________________________________________________________ Bob Allisat Free Community Network _ bob(a)fcn.net . http://fcn.net http://fcn.net/allisat _ http://fcn.net/draft

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Re: Lawsuit threat against RBL users
by Sean Finn 20 Nov '98

20 Nov '98

At 11:39 PM 11/18/98 -0800, Roeland M.J. Meyer wrote: >That's right. It stops the practice of using a sacrificial account, from >AOL or netcom, to spam for a web-site that is otherwise protected. Does it >make a difference that they didn't spam from their own ISP? Please allow me a moment to ask: Does it make any difference whether your customer actually originated the offending msgs? Couldn't such a spamset come from one of their competitor? Or a chat room hacker that got pissed off? I understand AUP regarding what actually happens on an account. Unless the "throwaway" account can be tied to your customer, then I don't understand the justification for compromising service. (I personally don't find "it's generally true", or "it's too much trouble", or "the end justifies the means" to be especially convincing arguments.)

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luser of the day award!
by owen＠dixon.DeLong.SJ.CA.US 20 Nov '98

20 Nov '98

MAPS is good. Paul is to be commended for his efforts against SPAM. Should Alan actually file suit against Paul, I, for one, will contribute whatever I can to his defense, including time as well as money. I would hope that by now there are at least a few internet-savvy lawyers out there who might even take Pauls case on a pro-bono basis. BBS PRESS has no right to expect connectivity from anyone using the MAPS list, unless they are paying that company for connectivity. The internet works because people are willing to exchange traffic on a good-neighbor basis. Suing the guy two blocks away because he put a gate up to prevent you from walking through his front yard makes very little sense. Owen

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RE: Lawsuit threat against RBL users
by Bob Allisat 20 Nov '98

20 Nov '98

"Brian" writes: > You are misguided. The constitution is "*Congress* shall make no > law....." not "<insert ISP name> shall make no law........" > > Things like freedom of speech, are only really an issue for the > Govt. When it comes to the private sector, we can do what we want. > If you are a private business, like an ISP, and don't want people > to see porn, you can filter porn, and tell people that you feel no > one should see it, and if they don't like it they will go > elsewhere. > > The checks and balances on that law, are the Freedom of > Enterprise, which protects the people. We have inalienable rights that extend beyond these rights to capitalize. These rights extend onto private property, into virtual networks, beyond fire- walls (if we are behind them) and to the heart of Vixie's unconscionable activities. The guy is setting the stage for a cyber-gulag where the unacceptables are simply "Black Holed" into non-existance. First for allegedly sending mail to too many people. Next for whatever silly other offense these despots in training dream up. Slippery. Slope. Bob Allisat Free Community Network _ bob(a)fcn.net . http://fcn.net http://fcn.net/allisat _ http://fcn.net/draft

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