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Re: HP Openview Slowness.
by Alex P. Rudnev 10 Jun '99

10 Jun '99

This is _freeware_ snmpstatd written originally by Vadim Antonov (avg(a)kotovnik.com) and published (with the Sprint's permission) on the Sprint ftp server. I'v modified it, add WWW interface, operator's log, different WWW reports and graphs, data base describing the channels and routers. It monitor - routers, links, BGP connections (and there is additional tool monitored cisco access servers with the modem pools and compatible with the first one interface); play music in case of important event (by MIDI), allow operator to open object, read the card describing it, send e-mail to the owner, investigate the problem and change the status (something like _ERROR -> ERROR at TELCO, investigations are keep on). The main disadvantage is that I can't draw map's (and have not good idea how to do it, yet, through there is some drafts about it). But it works fine and allow us to generate configuration from the data base (if we add new link to the data base, it's added to the monitor authomatically), etc etc. The other disadvantage is that all menu was written on RUSSION (it can be changed, through). And the documentation is not in the xecellent form yet. This tool is used by KIAE TECHNICAL center to monitor: RELCOM IP network RELARN IP network RELARN ATM SWITCH network (with some part of mgrt) RBNET IP network Internal KIAE switched network; RELCOM switches; and by a few of other ISP here in Russia. On Thu, 10 Jun 1999, David M. Archer wrote: > Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 08:48:56 -0400 > From: David M. Archer <dmarcher(a)pobox.com> > To: "Alex P. Rudnev" <alex(a)Relcom.EU.net> > Subject: Re: HP Openview Slowness. > > > > > > Btw, see http://noc.bn.ru/~alex/MON/ for an example of 'snmpstatd' output. > > > > Where does this snmpstatd come from? > > Dave > Aleksei Roudnev, Network Operations Center, Relcom, Moscow (+7 095) 194-19-95 (Network Operations Center Hot Line),(+7 095) 230-41-41, N 13729 (pager) (+7 095) 196-72-12 (Support), (+7 095) 194-33-28 (Fax)

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Re: [SNMP] Re: HP Openview Slowness.
by Alex P. Rudnev 10 Jun '99

10 Jun '99

I am not sure if CISCO support 'bgp_prefixes_per_peer' now, may be, yes already. But we had some comparasion: (1) To get ip accounting by SNMP, it takes 10 minutes. By 'telnet' - 4 srconds; (2) To get ip routing table by 'rsh' or 'telnet' (we use 'ciscotalk' tool with the 'send/expect pairs) you need 10 - 20 lines written by PERL and 1 sec or real time; to do it by SNMP - try yourself; (3) To get 'sh ip bgp sum' table by 'telnet' you need 1 second, by SNMP - try yourself (trough we poll BGP connections by SNMP); (4) TO get EVERYTHING about the interface, you can write 1 (ONE) request: 'rsh .... show interface Serial0'. How much requests and variables you should poll to do it by SNMP. How mach different MIB files you should drag through to do it by SNMP (and determine if this interface have Sync or Async mode in case of universal serial interface, for example). Etc etc... SNMP can work (just as LANE can work, H.323 can work); but it's an example of the wrong designes (except LANE) because there is ways to do it 100 - 200 times simpler (GET router.interface.Serial0.* , for example). Result: I need core BGP table from the router. Guess how I get it. By 'ciscotalk + show ip bgp routes', no doubt (I am not suicider to do it by SNMP). Through the HPOV is so huge not due to SNMP, I think, but due to attempt to join a lot of _useless usially_ features in the same software-box. Alex. > Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 08:57:07 -0400 (EDT) > From: Mike Heller <mikeh(a)earthweb.com> > To: "Alex P. Rudnev" <alex(a)Relcom.EU.net> > Cc: Scott Call <scall(a)devolution.com>, nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: Re: [SNMP] Re: HP Openview Slowness. > > Even though I *hate* the products, I did have fantastic success pulling > snmp data from BayNetworks routers. I'm just as surprised as you that > cisco doesn't support bgp_prefixes_per_peer. I don't think you can blame > the protocol as vendors can implement extensions beyond the spec as they > please. > > REgards, > Mike > > On Thu, 10 Jun 1999, Alex P. Rudnev wrote: > > > > > And the worst thing, If someone think _SNMP IS SUITABLE PROTOCOL_ he is > > wrong. In case of CISCO (as an example) we was caused to use boths 'SNMP' > > and 'rsh show ....' methods to get appropriate information. I think > > those who developed SNMP was the childs of the hell (it's terrible > > example of _how you should not develop protocols_; for example, compare > > > > 'rsh -t 120 -l monitor "show ip route"' > > > > request and requesting ip route table by SNMP; compare 'sh interface > > Serial0' and SNMP (10 - 20 different MIB tables with the very euristic > > INDEXES), try to ask _how much BGP router does router have_ or _how mach > > packets was received by ISL sublink_ etc etc. If someone answer _that's > > because of CISCO don't like SNMP_ I can't agree - no, thet's because SNMP > > is wrong protocol at all. > > > > Such protocol should be: > > > > - ascii text based; > > - with domain-like names, with the asterisk; > > - based on reliable UDP and/or TCP; > > - use something like MD5 checksumming for the simple protection. > > > > For example, I'd like to ask > > > > 'BASE 'router' > > GET interface Serial* > > ' > > > > and get > > ORIGIN router.interface.Serial1 > > in-packets: 223334 u32 > > in-errors: 1122 u23 > > in-bytes: 124563874 u64 > > .... > > ORIGIN router.interface.Serial2 > > .... > > > > (1) TEXT mode, no terrible binary octets, etc etc; > > (2) SIMPLE variables, withouth terrible MIB descriptions (they are not > > usefull here); > > (3) Another hierarchy (interface.variable, not variable.index) > > (4) simple addition private variables > > > > CISCO.in-bad-frames: 223344 > > instead of (as now) > > > > vendor.cisco.mgrt....interface.lapsha-na-palochke.INDEX > > > > etc etc... > > > > And then, if the protocol (SNMP) is BAD, don't think the tools for this > > protocol should be GOOD. > > > > // And compare this with the WEB interface implemented into some new > > routers and switches - simple, robust, can be used easily, and 100 times > > more flexible. Through it's only simple interfaces with the operator, not > > for the tools, for now. > > > > Alex. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 9 Jun 1999, Scott Call wrote: > > > > > Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 12:51:33 -0700 > > > From: Scott Call <scall(a)devolution.com> > > > To: nanog(a)merit.edu > > > Subject: Re: HP Openview Slowness. > > > > > > > > > "Alex P. Rudnev" wrote: > > > > > > > If you begin to use commercial soft after free one, then: > > > > - don't drop free soft, ypu'll use it anyway; > > > > > > I know :) I'm doing HPOV because the 'suits' want a pretty network map on a projector > > > somewhere. MRTG/etc will still be very present in the system :) > > > > > > > - increase memory, CPU and disk up to 2 - 4 times (if you had 64RAM, > > > > install 512); > > > > > > Noted, thanks. > > > > > > > - be ready to be disappointed; > > > > > > :) > > > > > > > Through HP OV is not bad piece of software. > > > > > > It's not, but I am disappointed it's not more router-centric. I appreciate the need to > > > monitor workstations, but I've got multitudes more network devices that workstations/servers. > > > > > > Thanks for all the responses everyone. > > > -scott > > > > > > -- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > |Scott Call |"How could this be a problem in a country where | > > > |Router Geek | we have Intel and Microsoft"-AlGore on y2 k | > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aleksei Roudnev, Network Operations Center, Relcom, Moscow > > (+7 095) 194-19-95 (Network Operations Center Hot Line),(+7 095) 230-41-41, N 13729 (pager) > > (+7 095) 196-72-12 (Support), (+7 095) 194-33-28 (Fax) > > > > > > > Aleksei Roudnev, Network Operations Center, Relcom, Moscow (+7 095) 194-19-95 (Network Operations Center Hot Line),(+7 095) 230-41-41, N 13729 (pager) (+7 095) 196-72-12 (Support), (+7 095) 194-33-28 (Fax)

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what do the kiddies have now
by Randy Bush 10 Jun '99

10 Jun '99

the following seemingly combo ftp and frag attack combo has escalated radically in the last days. anyone know why? %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(6079) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[27311]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(800) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(6985) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[27318]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(830) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 4 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(10874) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[27375]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(943) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(14462) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[27470]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(637) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(12438) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[27498]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(673) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(8174) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[27503]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(683) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(7017) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[27512]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(709) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(12615) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[27522]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(726) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(14441) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[27580]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(779) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(6720) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[27639]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(852) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(9073) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[27666]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(887) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(13040) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[27812]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(627) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(5786) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[27917]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(751) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(11108) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[27946]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(790) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(8316) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[27963]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(805) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(11738) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[27997]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(828) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(11476) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[28046]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(927) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(5036) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[28056]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(948) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(10825) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[28115]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(623) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(8939) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[28145]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(650) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(9116) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[28167]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(739) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(5595) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[28188]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(800) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(8564) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[28202]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(815) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(14905) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[28250]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(863) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(5535) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[28278]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(906) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(10659) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[28379]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(639) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(10521) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[28387]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(653) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(11809) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[28542]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied udp 209.192.148.153(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 13 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(9962) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[28591]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(815) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied udp 209.192.148.153(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(8016) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[28699]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(882) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 4 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(7740) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[28714]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(901) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(11452) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[28747]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(930) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 6 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 4 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(8119) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[29107]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(847) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 4 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(5313) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[29411]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(684) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(9439) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[29420]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(691) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[29425]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(695) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(10246) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[29474]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(733) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(7001) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[29479]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(736) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(6134) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[29510]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(751) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(12440) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[29627]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(799) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(6428) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[29638]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(812) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[29651]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(824) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(7033) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[29668]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(838) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(8406) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[29712]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(885) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(13300) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[29749]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(908) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(12610) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[29806]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(961) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(11014) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[29843]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(1008) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(10204) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[30031]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(738) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(14146) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[30159]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(839) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(14047) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[30205]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(885) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(10526) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[30236]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(913) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 13 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(11273) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[30362]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(649) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(7299) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[30377]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(666) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 4 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(14072) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[30507]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(736) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(10576) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[30528]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(751) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 4 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 4 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(5718) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[31125]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(624) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(9678) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[31409]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(747) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(8790) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[31531]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(805) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 6 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(11621) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[31841]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(975) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 8 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(975) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(5450) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[31963]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(609) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(11661) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[32885]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(978) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 6 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(12440) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[33480]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(691) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 8 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(12709) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[33596]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(709) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(13845) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[33700]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(742) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 6 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(5041) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[33726]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(760) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(11446) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[33802]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(787) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(14624) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[34326]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(923) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(7370) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[34413]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(974) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(13510) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[34753]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(683) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 8 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(11504) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[35240]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(834) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 2 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(7332) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[35331]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(889) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 6 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 4 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 4 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(6869) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[35721]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(951) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(8805) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[36321]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(833) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 6 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(5228) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[36760]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(966) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 8 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 6 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 4 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(8162) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[37144]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(634) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 6 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 2 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(11966) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[37263]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(666) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(6722) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[37298]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(685) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(11563) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[37579]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(772) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(8810) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[37632]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(791) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied udp 209.192.148.153(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied udp 209.192.148.153(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(13584) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[38095]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(961) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 4 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(7066) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[38334]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(605) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 10 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 4 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 6 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 4 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(7753) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[38814]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(725) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 4 packets named[79976]: ns_resp: TCP truncated: "112.137.63.209.in-addr.arpa" IN PTR %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(6816) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[39528]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(889) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 2 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 10 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 4 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(10925) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet ftpd[40052]: connect from crb614.nf.sympatico.ca %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 142.163.12.14(1012) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 6 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 4 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 6 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 200.251.162.80(6279) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 200.251.162.80(7881) -147.28.0.39(111), 1 packet %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 2 packets %SEC-6-IPACCESSLOGP: list 105 denied tcp 210.8.101.18(0) -147.28.0.39(0), 12 packets

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HP Openview Slowness.
by Scott Call 10 Jun '99

10 Jun '99

Hello. As part of a network I'm working on, I've install HPOpenView NNM (first time, I've only used free/cheap stuff in the past) on a Sun Ultra5, and it's performance is less than stellar. It takes between 30 seconds and 5 minutes to traverse from one map to another (either up or down). This occurs no matter how many (or few) objects are on each submap. My two questions are: 1> Is this normal (or did I do something wrong with the software setup) 2> If you are running NNM, what platform are you using, and do you find it satisfactory in responsiveness/etc. Thanks! -Scott

2 4

Fibercut in Chicago
by Walter 10 Jun '99

10 Jun '99

Anybody know or hear about the fibercut in Chicago ? Customers whose ISP's use Northpoint DSL in Chiago should be affected. This happend Yesterday according to Flashcom's site. Walter L

1 0

Re: followup on TCP stuff.
by Bill Manning 09 Jun '99

09 Jun '99

> Bill, > > Can you forward my reply here, and > tell Nanog'ers to check TCPIMPL for > more info? > > Thanks, > > Joe > > > > >To: alan(a)globalcenter.net, nanog(a)merit.edu, tcp-impl(a)lerc.nasa.gov > > >Subject: Re: TOS issues with non RFC compliant TCP stacks > > >Cc: touch(a)ISI.EDU > > > > > >> From owner-tcp-impl(a)lerc.nasa.gov Tue Jun 8 23:27:07 1999 > > >> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 22:45:11 -0700 > > >> From: Alan Hannan <alan(a)globalcenter.net> > > >> To: nanog(a)merit.edu, tcp-impl(a)lerc.nasa.gov > > >> Subject: TOS issues with non RFC compliant TCP stacks > > >... > > >> It has come to our attention that a notable fraction of the > > >> internet client community uses a TCP stack which is not RFC > > >> compliant, as far as we can determine. > > >> > > >> Certain versions of MacTCP send a RST when they receive SYN ACK > > >> packets of TOS!=0. > > > > > >Far as I have found, the spec (STD7) says that TOS is a TCP > > >per-connection property (page 12). > > > > > >On page 36 it appears to clearly state that (case 2): > > > > > > terminated then). If our SYN has been acknowledged (perhaps in this > > > incoming segment) the precedence level of the incoming segment must > > > match the local precedence level exactly, if it does not a reset > > > must be sent. > > > > > >> So, the empirical part: We implemented TOS bit-setting for the > > >> purpose of tracking traffic flows and traffic levels. For an > > >> entirely arbitrary reason, we chose TOS=5 for the default of > > >> traffic. We found that MacTCP ceased functioning. The MacTCP > > >> stack would initiate an RST when receiving SYN ACK packets with > > >> a TOS=5, as the SYN packets had a TOS=0. Therefore, all TCP > > >> sessions would fail. > > > > > >Granted, this is a first cut read, but wouldn't this appear > > >to indicate that NOT sending the RST is the violation of the > > >spec? > > > > > >Can you clarify? > > > > > >Joe > > > --bill

1 0

Need Dan Nydick address/info
by GAVRON＠ACES.COM 09 Jun '99

09 Jun '99

The following piece of code from TrACESroute identifies Dan Nydick, and has a copyright that prevents the use of this code in a distribution I was trying to get it into. Could someone let me know how to contact Dan, or which parts of the code are Copyright... it all looks like stuff I've seen in every other program in the world... Ehud /* DNS lookup portions of this code also subject to the following: */ /* * Use the domain system to resolve a name. * * Copyright (C) 1988,1990,1992 Dan Nydick, Carnegie-Mellon University * Anyone may use this code for non-commercial purposes as long * as my name and copyright remain attached. */ Ehud

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Re: HP Openview Slowness.
by Sean Donelan 09 Jun '99

09 Jun '99

scall(a)devolution.COM (Scott Call) writes: > As part of a network I'm working on, I've install HPOpenView NNM >(first time, I've only used free/cheap stuff in the past) on a Sun >Ultra5, and it's performance is less than stellar. It takes between 30 >seconds and 5 minutes to traverse from one map to another (either up or >down). This occurs no matter how many (or few) objects are on each >submap. I use Netview (a HP Openview derivative via IBM/DEC, now Tivoli). It will use whatever resources you give it. Yeah, the sales guy may have said it will run in 64meg, depending how you define "run." After I upgraded to a DEC Alpha/4000 with 640MB, and it is responsive enough to use. Other folks have told me their HP Openview was also much happier after they added a LOT more memory. The free/cheap stuff works well too. We use both, backing each other up. The Cabletron, Openview, etc stuff may be on the front wall with CNN to show visitors how cool your network is, but almost every NOC I've visited has something like NOCOL in the back. But don't tell upper management, otherwise they'll want to know why they spent mucho bucks on the stuff which displays pretty color pictures. -- Sean Donelan, Data Research Associates, Inc, St. Louis, MO Affiliation given for identification not representation

1 0

Re: TOS issues with non RFC compliant TCP stacks
by Sean Donelan 09 Jun '99

09 Jun '99

alan(a)globalcenter.NET (Alan Hannan) writes: > We have learned of a problem with non RFC compliant users of > the Internet. Although many network operators may want to apply RFC standards to non-compliant users; I think your problem is with protocol implementations instead of the users of those implementations :-) > Certain versions of MacTCP send a RST when they receive SYN ACK > packets of TOS!=0. > > I assume there are other TCP implementations which also have > this behaviour. MacTCP is pretty old. But you're going to quickly discover a lot of other quirks in other old vendor's TOS handling. I would hesitate to call some them non-RFC compliant, because sometimes the original RFCs left openings for different interpretations. And the early 'reference' implementations had even more interpretations. Later RFCs tried to clarify some of the practices, but it is an iterative process. Because TOS is so rarely used (until now), I suspect there is still lots of buggy code which has never been tickled. Some IBM mainframes will RST a connection if the TOS changes after the SYN. Several old implementations try to set to identical values in both directions, even though TOS is supposed to be independent between senders. And exactly how TOS interacts with MTU settings and fun stuff like fragmentation or path-MTU discovery is a mystery path through some stacks. >------------------------ = ------------------------ >2.10. Robustness Principle > > TCP implementations will follow a general principle of robustness: be > conservative in what you do, be liberal in what you accept from > others. >------------------------ = ------------------------ Like all great principles, it is a two-edged sword. Please heed both parts. Many implementors have justified their actions, on both sides, by saying it is too difficult for them to do, but trivial for the other guy to do. If you believe in the robustness principle, it works best when both sides use it. > Because of a hardware implementation limitation on most of > routers, INbound TOS setting is efficient, while OUTbound TOS > setting is inefficient. > > So it is difficult for us to modify the TOS settings leaving > our network. > > It would be moderately trivial for most interconnection partners > to modify the TOS settings on input. This is a path we plan > to pursue. With an end-to-end parameter, I think network operators are somewhat justified in telling the user: If it hurts don't set that parameter. But when the network operator sets/changes parameters in flight, I think it is up to that network operator to restore it/set-it-to-a- neutral-value when it hurts. Saying the other guy must be liberal in what they accept only meets the robustness principle if you are conservative in what you send. If TOS is changing from an end-to-end parameter to a hop-by-hop parameter, it would be nice to have a simple way to clear it at a border router. Do we need a "ip tos ignore/strip" interface command for the TOS field somewhat similar to the "ip security" interface configuration setting for IP options? [naturally modified for other vendor configuration languages.] Perhaps those providers with more pull with router vendors than me, and who are planning on using TOS for their internal network decisions, could encourage router vendors to add this feature. It is unlikely every single end-system or intermediate network will do the right thing in every case with TOS, so a simple way to turn it off before it gets to the end-system would be a very useful addition to the network operator toolkit. Trying to explain how to do packet surgery via complex router configurations over the phone to a customer is likely to result in as many ambiguities as the original RFCs. Trying to explain it to an intermediate NSP/ISP; well you know how well inter-provider coordination works now. -- Sean Donelan, Data Research Associates, Inc, St. Louis, MO Affiliation given for identification not representation

2 1

Really bad backhoe (off topic)
by Gregory Urban 09 Jun '99

09 Jun '99

A backhoe in Baltimore MD has set a new standard, and it was unmaned at the time. It seems while as flatbed was transporting a backhoe around the Baltimore Beltway (I-695), the backhoe hit a pedestrian bridge that spaned the road. The bridge collapsed onto the road, killing 1 person and sending 3 others to the hospital in critical condition. Details are on the Baltimore Sun's web site at http://www.sunspot.net/content/storyserver.cgi?storyid=1150080223022 Greg U urban(a)cs.umbc.edu

3 2