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RE: Digex and Akamai are raping the ARIN whois database
by Roeland Meyer 05 Sep '01

05 Sep '01

From: Rachel Luxemburg [mailto:rslux@link-net.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 5:04 PM >> At 07:52 PM 9/4/2001 -0400, Steven J. Sobol wrote: >> You can't purchase an opt-in list. Period. >That would depend on how the list was built. If the list subscribers signed up knowing >that the list would be sold to 3rd party companies then AFAIK it would not be spamming. ... and you will verify this ... how? [I hate HTML mail]

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Upsurge in attacks?
by Deepak Jain 05 Sep '01

05 Sep '01

Has anyone else noticed an upsurge in unsophisticated [packet flood, etc] attacks since college kids have to their own devices in dorms again this year? Deepak Jain AiNET

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RE: Digex and Akamai are raping the ARIN whois database
by chuck goolsbee 05 Sep '01

05 Sep '01

</lurk> >>Nothing like the smell of spam in the morning - coming to you through the >>"benevolent" acts of Akamai and Digex - sent to POC handles blatantly stolen >>from ARIN's whois database. Did it come to an address *only* used with ARIN? I realize that is a stupid question, but it has to be asked. >Yo, Digex: Tell them, not us. I'd call their marketing dept, sales dept, whatever and give them a piece of your mind. However, by odd coincidence I can fill you in on some background info: >from=<bounces(a)bounce.innovyx.com>, <snip> Well I *can* confirm for you that 'Innovyx' is a spamhaus. I unfortunately worked for their parent company several years ago, until I got a clue and bailed. 'Innovyx' spun off just before I left, and unfortunately my name (with an ancient low-number personal NIC handle... remmber those?) was on their WHOIS records, both at NSI and ARIN, for way too long. I got endlessly harrassed by pissed off people, until my attorney reminded their attorney about the agreement we all signed when we settled. They haven't updated their own ARIN WHOIS data <http://www.arin.net/cgi-bin/whois.pl?queryinput=NET-TPDI3>, so there is at least one human listed there you *can* harass... however he isn't the one who can do anything for you. Ping me off-list if you want the names of the guilty. You *really need* to contact Digex & Akamai, as they were actually foolish enough to *pay* Innovyx good money to harass you. P.T. Barnum *was* right. > > > [censored] > > Received-Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 11:4x:xx -0400 (EDT) > > Received: from shiner.innovyx.com (shiner.innovyx.com >[63.143.186.194] (may be forged)) I hope 'shiner' isn't the 'shiner' I set up. Sad to hear of a good host used for evil purposes... <sigh> They (innovyx) seem to have moved out of the frying pan (UUnet) and into the fire (Winstar) though. But wait... heh... looks like a "poor mans' BGP"??? with multiple IPs on every host? Their ARIN records indicate UUnet address space, but your mail points to Winstar ones... Start: 9/4/01 7:21:03 PM Find route from: 216.168.32.90 to: shiner.innovyx.com (207.78.109.20), Max 30 hops, 40 byte packets Host Names truncated to 32 bytes 1 out.bothell.forest.net. (216.168.32.1 ): 1ms 0ms 0ms 2 border001.sea.forest.net. (216.168.46.1 ): 1ms 1ms 1ms 3 500.serial1-1.gw4.sea4.alter.net (157.130.181.1 ): 1ms 1ms 1ms 4 117.atm2-0.xr2.sea4.alter.net. (152.63.105.142 ): 4ms 2ms 2ms 5 192.atm2-0.xr2.sea1.alter.net. (146.188.200.145): 3ms 4ms 3ms 6 194.atm6-0.gw7.sea1.alter.net. (152.63.105.173 ): 3ms 3ms 3ms 7 gw.tpdinc.com. (206.136.148.1 ): 7ms!U * 9ms!U *Trace completed* Unreachable. Maybe they are leaving UU for less green pastures. Or maybe their DNS is all screwed up... Start: 9/4/01 7:21:12 PM Find route from: 216.168.32.90 to: 63.143.186.194 (63.143.186.194), Max 30 hops, 40 byte packets Host Names truncated to 32 bytes 1 out.bothell.forest.net. (216.168.32.1 ): 1ms 0ms 1ms 2 border001.sea.forest.net. (216.168.46.1 ): 1ms 1ms 1ms 3 s4-0-5.evrtwa1-cr2.bbnplanet.net (4.0.63.17 ): 2ms 2ms 2ms 4 p3-0.evrtwa1-ba2.bbnplanet.net. (4.24.5.109 ): 2ms 2ms 2ms 5 p3-0.sttlwa1-cr2.bbnplanet.net. (4.24.6.61 ): 3ms 3ms 7ms 6 p13-0.snjpca1-br1.bbnplanet.net. (4.24.4.182 ): 22ms 22ms 20ms 7 p1-0.snjpca1-cr1.bbnplanet.net. (4.24.9.134 ): 20ms 20ms 21ms 8 mae-west-atm-gtei.good.net. (4.24.145.30 ): 44ms 36ms 57ms 9 3.atm8-0.snv1-bb1.winstar.net. (65.36.0.174 ): 51ms 37ms 39ms 10 6.atm4-0-0.seattle-0.winstar.net (63.141.227.177 ): 61ms 61ms 56ms 11 158.winstar.net. (63.142.195.158 ): 62ms 62ms 65ms 12 shiner.innovyx.com. (63.143.186.194 ): 64ms 61ms 62ms * Trace completed 9/4/01 7:21:15 PM * So either their DNS, or their routing, or *both* are completely fsck'ed. Couldn't have happened to a more deserving bunch. ><snip> > > We're sending you this invitation because we received your e-mail > > address from one of our marketing partners. If you'd like to receive > > future emails, please click here: Groan. See, it *is* opt-in! lame. > > http://edge.akamai.com/redir.asp?[censored]&SubscriberID=[censored] > > Not confirming your interest automatically leaves you unsubscribed and > > we will not send you future emails. Additionally, each issue you receive > > as a subscriber will contain unsubscription instructions. Jeez, it's like a frikkin man-trap. Yes, you will only receive one mail about *this* 'event, but no way of ever permanently removing you address? These guys are in Washington state, which does have a pretty good anti-spam law. You might want to see if they are toeing the line here or stepping over it. Given that this is not even trivially operational, I'm dropping back into lurk mode now... <lurk> Chuck Goolsbee V.P. Technical Operations _________________________________________________________________ digital.forest Phone: +1-877-720-0483, x2001 where Internet solutions grow Int'l: +1-425-483-0483 19515 North Creek Parkway Fax: +1-425-482-6871 Suite 208 http://www.forest.net Bothell, WA 98011 email: cg(a)forest.net

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Re: Digex and Akamai are raping the ARIN whois database
by Avi Freedman 05 Sep '01

05 Sep '01

In article <10184.195637.1890(a)avi.netaxs.com> you wrote: : On Tue, 4 Sep 2001, Avi Freedman wrote: : Avi, : In my last message I said good things about you. Please don't make me take : them back. : You can't purchase an opt-in list. Period. Let's just take it off-list. Let's just say that I reject religious oversimplifications, whether it's about spam 'there are no acceptable opt-in lists' (I've subscribed to a few, though generally with separate mailing address) - or routing 'multihoming is bad and hurts you' (rarely aregues except by those with a financial incentive to do so). Don't get me started on OSs, though... There may be FAR more than a kernel of truth, but blanket statements go against my grain... In any case, re: Akamai, we managed to convince marketing that the benefit of even what I'd call 'legit' list-based marketing aren't worth it, so the rest is just semantics and probably, as you said, not really on-topic for NANOG. Thanks, Avi

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Re: Digex and Akamai are raping the ARIN whois database
by Adam Herscher 05 Sep '01

05 Sep '01

Hah. This comes from UltraDNS, the company that makes cold calls beginning with "my wife couldn't access your web page the other night". See: http://ignite.blackened.net/misc/salespitch.wav > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rachel Luxemburg [mailto:rslux@link-net.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 5:04 PM > To: nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: Re: Digex and Akamai are raping the ARIN whois database > > > At 07:52 PM 9/4/2001 -0400, Steven J. Sobol wrote: > > > > You can't purchase an opt-in list. Period. > > > > That would depend on how the list was built. If the list subscribers signed > up knowing that the list would be sold to 3rd party companies then AFAIK it > would not be spamming. > > > > Regards, > > Rachel > > > ----------------------------- > Rachel Luxemburg > Sr. Product Manager, UltraDNS > http://www.ultradns.com <http://www.ultradns.com/> > Voice: (650) 227-2684 > > >

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Re: Digex and Akamai are raping the ARIN whois database
by Rachel Luxemburg 05 Sep '01

05 Sep '01

At 07:52 PM 9/4/2001 -0400, Steven J. Sobol wrote: >You can't purchase an opt-in list. Period. That would depend on how the list was built. If the list subscribers signed up knowing that the list would be sold to 3rd party companies then AFAIK it would not be spamming. Regards, Rachel ----------------------------- Rachel Luxemburg Sr. Product Manager, UltraDNS http://www.ultradns.com Voice: (650) 227-2684

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Re: Digex and Akamai are raping the ARIN whois database
by Dave Israel 04 Sep '01

04 Sep '01

Ah, I knew this was coming. For the record: Digex.net does not do any sort of web hosting. Digex.com does not do any sort of leased line sales. They're vastly different companies these days. You did, however, send your complaint to the correct address (digex.com) Folks, please follow Kai's example, and let abuse(a)digex.com (and your digex.com salesperson, if you have one) know exactly what you think of this. I'm sure I'm going to hear a lot about this over the next few days, and I'm hoping that everybody realizes that the digex.net/icix.net folks have nothing to do with this whatsoever. I have no idea if digex.com knew what they were getting into with this. I hope they did not. Please, though, don't harrass/mailbomb us IBI/digex.net folks. We're innocent. I swear. And Kai, I'm sorry our sales force let you down. I'm more ashamed to admit you're not the only one. -Dave On 9/4/2001 at 15:38:30 -0400, Kai Schlichting said: > > Nothing like the smell of spam in the morning - coming to you through the > "benevolent" acts of Akamai and Digex - sent to POC handles blatantly stolen > from ARIN's whois database. > > Yo, Digex: this just reminds me how much your "sales team" sucked the last > time around, when there was a DS3 contract up for grabs on an RFP. > This spam certainly cuts you out of any future consideration for a while: > You'll find yourself in good company with Savvis, I am sure. > > Sep 4 11:4x:xx host sendmail[14500]: LAA14500: from=<bounces(a)bounce.innovyx.com>, size=10198, class=0, pri=40198, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200109041542.LAA14183@host>, bodytype=8BITMIME, proto=ESMTP, relay=shiner.innovyx.com [63.143.186.194] (may be forged) > Sep 4 11:4x:xx host sendmail[14500]: LAA14500: to=<CENSORED@TLD>, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=local, stat=Sent > > > > [censored] > > Received-Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 11:4x:xx -0400 (EDT) > > Received: from shiner.innovyx.com (shiner.innovyx.com [63.143.186.194] (may be forged)) > > by [censored].com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14500 > > for <ADDRESS-STOLEN-FROM-ARIN-WHOIS-DB@TLD>; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 11:4x:xx -0400 (EDT) > > Received: by shiner.innovyx.com (PowerMTA(TM) v1.0); Tue, 4 Sep 2001 08:4x:xx -0700 (envelope-from <bounces(a)bounce.innovyx.com>) > > Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 08:41 -0700 > > From: digexakamai <digexakamai-[censored](a)m2.innovyx.com> > > Reply-to: digexakamai <digexakamai-[censored](a)m2.innovyx.com> > > Subject: You're Invited > > To: ADDRESS-STOLEN-FROM-ARIN-WHOIS-DB@TLD > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-------=_8418644195" > > > We're sending you this invitation because we received your e-mail > > address from one of our marketing partners. If you'd like to receive > > future emails, please click here: > > http://edge.akamai.com/redir.asp?[censored]&SubscriberID=[censored] > > Not confirming your interest automatically leaves you unsubscribed and > > we will not send you future emails. Additionally, each issue you receive > > as a subscriber will contain unsubscription instructions. > > > > Digex and Akamai Present: Performance!...a Free seminar on enhancing > > your Web site performance. > > > As the strategic value of Web sites has become a critical factor in > > the success of many companies, managing performance has become an > > ongoing challenge. Fast response time is not just a feature, it is > > a requirement for today's transaction oriented Web sites where real > > business is conducted online. > > > Join two industry leaders for a discussion about: > > > * Architecting your site for maximum performance > > * Enhancing your e-business reach > > * Speeding content and application delivery > > * Eliminating costly and excessive bandwidth > > * Maximizing the return on your investment > > > > > When & Where > > [blah cut] > > > Digex, the proven leader in managed Web and application hosting > > since 1996, offers the most comprehensive portfolio of hosting > > products and services designed to enhance the performance of your > > mission-critical Web operations. Akamai, the leading provider > > of distributed application and content delivery services, gives > > businesses a distinct competitive advantage by providing the > > technology to optimize your customers' Web experience. > > > > If you'd like to receive future Akamai emails, please click here: > > http://edge.akamai.com/redir.asp?[censored]&SubscriberID=[censored] -- Dave Israel Senior Manager, IP Backbone Intermedia Business Internet

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e-mail list use at Akamai, followup
by Avi Freedman 04 Sep '01

04 Sep '01

In article <10184.163350.27021(a)avi.netaxs.com> you wrote: : Very sorry this happened. Marketing purchased a 'trial version' of : a list that apparently had ARIN-gleanings. Follow-up: 1) Akamai won't be using any lists in the future to do e-mail marketing. That's a firm commitment that we're prepared to make. Anyone doing so will be terminated. 2) Akamai's policy has been and remains that no Akamai salespeople are to e-mail potential customers unless they've been given permission to do so by a human. Violations have led, and will lead, to termination. If there are any issues relating to spam or suspected spam, ccare(a)akamai.com will follow them through. Any issues with the Akamai customer care group's followup (they also deal with network portscanning etc complaints), feel free to escalate to me or anyone in networking at Akamai and we'll follow through. Thanks, Avi

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Re: Digex and Akamai are raping the ARIN whois database
by brandon＠rd.bbc.co.uk 04 Sep '01

04 Sep '01

> If anyone has any heuristics for ensuring that lists don't have automated > new-domain or SWIP gleanings, I'd appreciate them Apparently not mailing people unless they gave you their address and said you could is effective. brandon

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RE: Digex and Akamai are raping the ARIN whois database
by Smith, Rick 04 Sep '01

04 Sep '01

Did they leave an 800 # ? :) Nothing like autodial & coffee... -----Original Message----- From: Kai Schlichting [mailto:kai@pac-rim.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 3:39 PM To: nanog(a)merit.edu Cc: abuse(a)digex.com; abuse(a)innovyx.com; postmaster(a)innovyx.com; abuse(a)winstar.net; abuse(a)akamai.net; abuse(a)arin.net; hostmaster(a)arin.net Subject: Digex and Akamai are raping the ARIN whois database Nothing like the smell of spam in the morning - coming to you through the "benevolent" acts of Akamai and Digex - sent to POC handles blatantly stolen from ARIN's whois database. Yo, Digex: this just reminds me how much your "sales team" sucked the last time around, when there was a DS3 contract up for grabs on an RFP. This spam certainly cuts you out of any future consideration for a while: You'll find yourself in good company with Savvis, I am sure.

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