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Re: Certification or College degrees?
by K. Graham 23 May '02

23 May '02

To start, I know a lot of people with no certifications, degrees or diplomas that can dance circles around their desired loves of networking or unix administration. They live, work and earn every penny they receive. I hold them in high esteem and thank them constantly for help they give to me. They do not need to take the tests to know about things or be known for things they have done. Living in a profession that has a large majority of male counterparts, being a female has been a bit tough. Having those pieces of paper has helped me to open a few doors. Once those doors are opened technical questions, a bit of experience and the ability to smile and laugh have kept those doors opened. The papers have helped to introduce myself, show that I may actually have the basics. Without them I am not sure I would be where I am now. Getting them were more of yearning for learning than a "look I have this" statement. My current manager smiled when I asked him not to tell my counter parts what I have. Certs/Degrees/Diplomas sometimes cause tension between staff that have them and staff that do not have them until everyone gets to know the person, and how they work. To me experience means a lot more. You may think this is strange but the more "bugs" I find the more I smile for it gives me a great opportunity to learn. To learn something that is not in the books, where it takes a feel for the device to fix it. Though the heart does pump a bit faster in these situations due to it being a production device and not a lab device. Earn the Certs, Diplomas, Degrees for yourself and not the position. The position is the partical application of what you like to do. A good HR person looks at your personality to make sure you fit the team, if you can answer the technical questions you do not need always need the paper. Kim Oh.. I should add. My first Cert was out written out of spite. A male co-worker seemed high and mighty when he passed. So I wrote it to keep him quiet. I must thank him one day. :)

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Re: Certification or College degrees?
by Nigel Clarke 23 May '02

23 May '02

If I have learned anything at all during the course of this recession is that you have to be diverse. Organizations are looking for individuals with a wide range of skills. This includes CCIE's. I know a few who aren't working right now. It's not due to there lack of skill or knowledge, it's there limited skill set. The story of the Cisco CCIE's will be the same as the IBM/SNA mainframe gurus. Great in their day, useless in the future. --- Nigel Clarke Network Security Engineer nigel(a)forever-networks.com

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education == ??
by J.D. Falk 23 May '02

23 May '02

I think the real meaning in this thread might simply be that some people are extremely argumentative, no matter how much education they've received. Can we move on now? -- J.D. Falk "...eternity is defined by impatience." <jdfalk(a)cybernothing.org> -- Laura Kasischke

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RE: Certification or College degrees? Was: RE: list problems?
by Randy Neals 22 May '02

22 May '02

Kristian P. Jackson, might have said: >Perhaps a bachelors in network engineering is in order? Masters Degree in Internetworking http://www.dal.ca/~eine/ -Randy

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RE: Certification or College degrees? Was: RE: list problems?
by Pistone, Mike 22 May '02

22 May '02

Not to toot the horn of my Alma Mater too much, but Ohio University's Communication Systems Management program (www.csm.ohiou.edu) is also along the lines of a network engineering degree. It also focus on other aspects of the industry (regulation, comm theory, security, etc) but they all sort of flow together. They were just getting into more hands on networking labs when I graduated, I am sure they have greatly improved since then. Mike -----Original Message----- From: John Kristoff [mailto:jtk@depaul.edu] Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 3:52 PM Cc: nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: Re: Certification or College degrees? Was: RE: list problems? On Wed, 22 May 2002 16:40:27 -0400 "Kristian P. Jackson" <kahuna(a)krisjackson.net> wrote: > network engineers, just as a bunch of network engineers are no more > qualified to program. Perhaps a bachelors in network engineering is in > order? We actually have that - or something close to it. We are slowly building a bigger networking lab with router-ish stuff for students to learn from. In fact, I'll be handing off full BGP table for them to see and play with in the lab. If you want to help us educate, we'll gladly accept any donations, particularly gear, we can get. :-) http://www.cs.depaul.edu/programs/2002/BachelorNT2002.asp http://ipdweb.cs.depaul.edu/programs/lan/index.html http://condor.depaul.edu/~jkristof/tdc375/ http://condor.depaul.edu/~jkristof/2001Spr365/ John

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Re: Re: list problems?
by John Neiberger 22 May '02

22 May '02

To be honest, I recall that particular language and it made me wonder if it was an AUP violation. I don't know that I'd equate enforcing an AUP with censorship. We are, after all, professionals and it shouldn't be difficult to maintain a certain level of decorum. Speaking for myself, my choice of words at home can be considerably different from what I'd choose to use at work or when dealing with other professionals in a public forum. The sort of language that I sometimes use at home or with friends is not acceptable here at work so I would presume that it wouldn't be acceptable when communicating in an open professional forum. Just my $.005 after taxes, John ---- On Wed, 22 May 2002, Ralph Doncaster (ralph(a)istop.com) wrote: > > On Wed, 22 May 2002, Andy Dills wrote: > > On Wed, 22 May 2002, Jeffrey Meltzer wrote: > > > > > > I've gotten at least 5 messages from you on this list today... > > > > Yeah, maybe NANOG implemented WFQ... > > Further tests seem to indicate that every message posted to the list is > read/approved by a human. > http://ns.istop.com/~ralph/censored.txt > > -Ralph > > > >

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Re: Linux routing
by Valdis.Kletnieks＠vt.edu 22 May '02

22 May '02

On Wed, 22 May 2002 09:20:41 EDT, Valdis.Kletnieks(a)vt.edu said: > it incorrectly to a process - I seem to remember some handwaving in either > the Keifler&McKusic or Bach books about how interrupt time is charged against Argh. I knew that didn't look right... ;) Leffler, McKusic, Karels, Quarterman: "Design and Implementation of the 4.3BSD Unix Operating System" Addison-Wesley That will teach me to not cite unless I have either book or caffeine ;)

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The market must be coming back
by Christopher J. Wolff 22 May '02

22 May '02

Everyone's so busy there hasn't been a peep on here in weeks. Regards, Christopher J. Wolff, VP CIO Broadband Laboratories http://www.bblabs.com

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RE: Cisco 7200 VXR with NPE-400 (was RE: The market must be coming back)
by Daniska Tomas 22 May '02

22 May '02

did you do netflow switching or cef + netflow accounting that time? -- Tomas Daniska systems engineer Tronet Computer Networks Plynarenska 5, 829 75 Bratislava, Slovakia tel: +421 2 58224111, fax: +421 2 58224199 A transistor protected by a fast-acting fuse will protect the fuse by blowing first. > -----Original Message----- > From: Ralph Doncaster [mailto:ralph@istop.com] > Sent: 22. mája 2002 16:15 > To: Heath_Dieckert(a)Dell.com > Cc: nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: RE: Cisco 7200 VXR with NPE-400 (was RE: The market > must be coming back) > > > > > Based on our testing it looks like it all has to do with > packet size. With > > small packets the throughput is very low. With what Cisco calls an > > "internet mix" of packet sizes throughput is much better. > When doing max > > MTU packets, the throughput is of course the best. > > The other thing I've found about traffic type is how sensitive > netflow is. I was running it for a while, then I got a co-lo customer > that had a lot of UDP traffic with small packet sizes and > rarely more than > a few packets between the same src/dest ip/port (much like DNS > queries). It was enough to flatline the box and cause it to crash. > > -Ralph > >

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RE: Cisco 7200 VXR with NPE-400 (was RE: The market must be comin g back)
by Heath_Dieckert＠Dell.com 22 May '02

22 May '02

Based on our testing it looks like it all has to do with packet size. With small packets the throughput is very low. With what Cisco calls an "internet mix" of packet sizes throughput is much better. When doing max MTU packets, the throughput is of course the best. Also remember that Cisco as well as most other vendors advertise one way traffic only. If you have traffic on the return path, that counts against their numbers. So 400000 pps one way is the same to them as 200000 pps both ways. Interesting thread Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: Gary [mailto:garyb@foundrynet.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 12:12 AM To: Adam Rothschild Cc: nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: Cisco 7200 VXR with NPE-400 (was RE: The market must be coming back) Adam: > [...] Sort of like buying a GbE interface for a 7200 (It only get's > > 10% throughput... Why waste the money, just buy FE!). > > How did the Foundry test lab arrive at those figures, and what > substances were consumed at the time? I used a Cisco 7200 VXR with NPE-400. I used two different 7200's with the exact same results. Bidirectional throughput on 1GbE is a fraction above 10%. Unidirectional is a bit better (23%). Singl line ACL drops it to 8% (permit ip any any). FE performance doesn't start to drop below line rate until you put more than two in the box. I have a powerpoint if you'd like it, but it is not meant to slander Cisco, just to convince my customers NOT to put GbE in a 7200! It is not a GbE platform!

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