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Re: PAIX
by Jere Retzer 18 Nov '02

18 Nov '02

David Diaz replied to my comments Concerning latency >>>Well the bingo latency number used a lot in voice is 50ms. Im simplifing without getting into all the details, but that's an important number. As far as VoIP goes, I think higher latency is ok, it's more important to have "consistent" latency. Fluctuating latency really affects VoIP more then a higher consistent latency. There are a lot of people doing VoIP and traditional voice on satellites and the latency there is huge.<< Here's an example. Without naming networks, I recently subscribed to DSL at the Oregon coast because the local phone company, which is also a national network provider advertised that they use a particular ISP, who we have in the NWAX exchange in Portland. I thought, well I should be able to get a good connection back to Oregon Health and Sciences University (OHSU), and if so this will be a good path for the physicians in that coastal community who have wanted to particpate in our grand rounds and other continuing medical education programs. They also have wanted to let the public participate in our "healthy chats" program. These events are live and interactive. So, I was very optimistic and set up my connection. I was shocked to learn, however that the DSL provider routes all the bits from that location to Dallas/Fort Worth, Texas before letting them find their way to their eventual destination. Rather than a nice direct route to OHSU, the route was 19 hops via Texas and Silicon Valley (Palo Alto and San Francisco) before getting to Portland. The average latency, which I duplicated consistently with multiple destinations in the Portland area is 180 msec and I have seen packet loss hitting 30% every minute or two. There is absolutely no way that this connection would be able to handle an interactive application. Yes, people have tolerated 500 msec latency on satellite links ― but only because they really had no choice. Dave Diaz continued >>>Fewer hops = less packet loss? There has been a lot of discussion on the list about that. I still dont see it although it does push latency up a bit. Truth is that there are a lot of tunnels or express routes build in, so we arent seeing all the hops nowadays. I think that's more for sales and marketing as people keep judging networks by hops in a traceroute.<<< See above. Partly, I think it is just the odds of encountering congestion goes up exponentially with the number of hops. No engineering reason other than if you have 5% likelihood of hitting congestion on any one hop and then you have 19 your odds of hitting congestion are much higher. Combine that with a persistent connection for an interactive video session and you will find, as I did that every couple minutes you have a spike that causes fits with your video. Dave Diaz continued >>>An IP backbone is a bad place for live TV. Delayed or on demand tv yes. Live tv plays to the benefits of One to Many broadcast ability of satellite as Doug Humphrey will tell you. So a feed from a DSS dish into your local cache would work well. It still can be done at a per city peering point to better feed the broadband users. <<< If we fix the IP backbones for interactive TV then broadcast should be a piece of cake. While I agree with a later post that questioned convergence for the sake of convergence, the benefits of IP+Ethernet are that it is an order of magnitude cheaper and you eliminate the need for any local "head end" equipment, manipulation by local stations, etc, etc. Ultimately, the only stuff that will originate locally is local news and content. Jere

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RE: Blocking specific sites within certain countries.
by Jim Deleskie 18 Nov '02

18 Nov '02

Its my understanding that since Akamai is based on DNS resolves if you where to use the method of blocking it within the DNS system it would make no difference. Although I'm no Akamai expert. -Jim -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Concepcion [mailto:dani@intelideas.com] Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 11:59 AM To: Alif The Terrible; nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: Re: Blocking specific sites within certain countries. Hi, In Spain Some provideers are blocking the resolv of this domains in their dns servers. Others block in the edge the ip actually associated with this domains. Others don't block ;) Is very interesting know what happening if this domains move to Akamai or Digital Island. Deny this traffic without break others lays will be very difficult. Regards, Daniel On Thursday 14 November 2002 16:55, Alif The Terrible wrote: > Good Morning, > > I am interested in how everyone who is affected by the recent Spanish > Judicial order to block specific "terrorist affiliated" sites from access > to Spanish nationals? > > Without re-starting the endless debate over how impossible this is in > fact, since that is obvious - how is everyone "complying" with this order?

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Re: PAIX
by Jere Retzer 18 Nov '02

18 Nov '02

Stephen Sprunk wrote >>>I meant my reply to be directed only at "telemedecine", where the patient is at home and consults their general practitioner or primary care physician via broadband for things like the flu or a broken arm. While there's lots of talk about this in sci-fi books, there's no sign of this making any significant inroads today, nor does it qualify as a "killer app" for home broadband.<<< Cost and trouble has been too high. Widespread broadband could change this. Assisted living facilities, with wealthy retired baby boomers will be a high payoff market. We're already seeing some clinics and physicians who encourage e-mail with patients. Video is far better to assess the patient's attitude/condition even without any instrumentation

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What? : Delivery Status Notification (Failure) (fwd)
by Stephen J. Wilcox 18 Nov '02

18 Nov '02

anyone else receiving a large number of bounces from nanog deliveries to the below address dated over the past 3 months? anyone at shure.com care to stop it as they're still coming! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 20:01:45 -0500 From: postmaster(a)shure.com To: steve(a)telecomplete.co.uk Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure) This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification. Unable to deliver message to the following recipients, due to being unable to connect successfully to the destination mail server. Administrator(a)shure.com

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Re: PAIX
by nstratton＠hushmail.com 18 Nov '02

18 Nov '02

You should move to the Atlanta NAP. It is designed to withstand a plane crashing into the building. BTW, Netrail still owes me money. - Nathan Stratton On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Daniel Golding wrote: > Paul, > > Not sure if you are currently in a position to answer this... > > With the impending S&D buyout of some of PAIX's assets, do you see PAIX > Atlanta as a going concern? I know S&D owns an adjacent floor at 56 > Marieta. Do you think they will hold on to both? I am curious, as my > company has a POP in PAIX Atlanta, and we are starting to do some > contigency planning. > > Thanks, > Daniel Golding > > On 17 Nov 2002, Paul Vixie wrote: > > > > > speaking of paix, for those of you in atlanta (ietf) this week, i'm > > going to do a couple of site walkthroughs. send me e-mail if interested. > > -- > > Paul Vixie > > > > Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

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Re: PAIX
by Paul Vixie 18 Nov '02

18 Nov '02

daniel wrote: > With the impending S&D buyout of some of PAIX's assets, do you see PAIX > Atlanta as a going concern? I know S&D owns an adjacent floor at 56 > Marieta. Do you think they will hold on to both? until the bankruptcy court's auction runs its course, we don't know who the new owner of PAIX will be. in any case, i can't speak for S&D at this time. > I am curious, as my company has a POP in PAIX Atlanta, and we are > starting to do some contigency planning. it's very likely that S&D would like to talk you about those plans, and that with appropriate NDA's in place, they would tell you more about PAIX-ATL1's likely future under their ownership. paul re: > > speaking of paix, for those of you in atlanta (ietf) this week, i'm > > going to do a couple of site walkthroughs. send me e-mail if interested. > > -- > > Paul Vixie

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Re: Next NANOG meeting/stats
by Johnny Eriksson 18 Nov '02

18 Nov '02

> > and it butts right against nordnog, essentially preventing attendance > > at both. > > > As Nordnog organizer I agree. And the new date for nordnog is? > - kurtis - --Johnny

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Re: Simulated disaster exercise? Re: PAIX
by sgorman1＠gmu.edu 18 Nov '02

18 Nov '02

It should also be noted that the CAIDA study only examined the core "giant cluster" of the Internet. In other words they only looked at the most interconnected part of the Internet not the whole Internet. While you could argue only the core matters, the methodological approach gives you much different results. You are ignoring the places that were disconnected or balkanized in other studies (Albert et al 2000, Cohen et al 2002...etc.) CAIDA are the data gurus, so I'm sure there is good justification for this, it is just not outline in their paper - http://www.caida.org/analysis/topology/resilience/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Sean Donelan <sean(a)donelan.com> Date: Monday, November 18, 2002 0:55 am Subject: Re: Simulated disaster exercise? Re: PAIX > > On Sun, 17 Nov 2002, Richard A Steenbergen wrote: > > > The usual response was it only affected the public exchange > fabric, not > > > any private point-to-point circuits between providers through > the same > > > facility. > > > > But if we're going to compare this to MAE Gigaswitch failures, > shouldn't> we be talking apples to apples and oranges to oranges? > > No. The world has changed. If people are buying tangerines and > grapefruitnow, that's what we should be talking about, not apples > and oranges. If > most of today's Internet exchange is via private connections, > those are > the connections we should be looking at. > > The fine folks at Caimis and Caida have done some analysis, and > identifiedthe nodes which make up the "core" of the Internet. > They've also > identified the most connected "core" nodes. The good news is the > networkdoesn't go non-linear until more than 25% of the nodes are > removed. > > >

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RE: free network monitoring/management tools
by Gustavus, Wayne 18 Nov '02

18 Nov '02

Joshua, Hate to give the std answer, but I suggest a review of the archives over the past 2 months--this thread was just recently re-hashed. Also, there was a presentation on "Managing IP Networks with Free Software" at NANOG 26. Check it out here: http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0210/ppt/stephen.pdf -Wayne -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Smith [mailto:joshua.ej.smith@usa.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 10:56 AM To: nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: free network monitoring/management tools hello to all, i would appreciate your your knowledge and experiences regarding freely available tools for network monitoring and management (all cisco now, some other stuff later). i would prefer free tools as i have no budget :) i am looking for the following (it will be running on either freebsd or redhat): AAA - i have been trying to find a tacacs+ daemon/program that doesn't require me to also learn *sql to set up the backend database (if this is the only choice, then i can learn it) config monitoring/management - rancid or rtrmon are the two that i have found. any preferences on one over the other in terms of ease of use, ability to modify/improve, efficiency, etc? network/syslog monitoring - some of the likely candidates i have found are nagios or netsaint, jffnms, nmis, opennms, or maybe snip (formerly nocol) - i need something that is fairly easy to setup and use, and it doesn't have to do a whole lot (just some basic notifications for now). decent documentation is also necessary, and a pretty map would be nice for my noc, but this isn't a prereq. my scripting/programming skills are rudimentary, so it would be ideal if it was at least partially plug-and-play (i know i know, sorry). i would appreciate any input (i am still reading through the archives for useful tidbits), and i, of course, will gladly summarize for the list. thanks in advance joshua "Walk with me through the Universe, And along the way see how all of us are Connected. Feast the eyes of your Soul, On the Love that abounds. In all places at once, seemingly endless, Like your own existence." - Stephen Hawking -

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PM3's crashing
by Mark Radabaugh 17 Nov '02

17 Nov '02

Anyone seeing odd crashes on Lucent PM3's tonight? We have boxes dying all over the network with hard lockups. The machines are in different physical locations with different telcos. It smells alot like a DOS of some sort. Mark Radabaugh Amplex (419) 720-3635

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