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Re: NYT on Thing.net
by Kurt Erik Lindqvist 14 Jan '03

14 Jan '03

> (I think I am close to get a notice from Susan so this will be my last posting on this to Nanog) > > The upstream (Air2net?) basically shrugged their shoulders. Fries > went to the upstream's upstream while at the same time he mounted Air2net was a transit customer of KPNQwest (and not a reseller as Flashback claimed) and it was to them Flashback turned when they got cut off the first time. Air2net however only had presence in Gothenburg and wanted to connect their customer to KQs network, which we refused (actually first we did not know this was Flashback). Flashback then turned directly to KQ but we declined to offer services. Then he went on to other ISPs. Worth noting is that KQ didn't impose any restrictions on transit customers, but none of the (then very few though) transit customers accepted Flashback as customer. > Karlskrona city lawyer, the Swedish association of ISPs (I forget > its name; something like the Dutch NLIP, a non-mandatory, SOF, I am the current chairman. > non-regulatory private body in which all major and many minor > ISPs are represented) took up the issue. At first they issued > some kind of statement saying that they had all agreed to refuse > nazi content and anybody carrying it. Later they took that back > and refused to comment. Since they are a private body, nobody > can force them to show their minutes (and nobody has leaked them > so far). The end result was that not one single ISP was willing > to host Flashback and Axelsson got a rather remarkable collection > of subterfuges, "not in, he'll will call you" from people who > never called, unreplied letters and the like. > To my knowledge SOF have never issued a joint statement on anything except the Swedish Spam-law. I was not at that SOF meeting but the minutes are public and on the web. From what I know the subject was discussed very briefly and never made it into the minutes (which I agree is bad though). Flashback made complaints to a number of government bodies, all of who cleared the issue. I do not recollect that this would have been due to "not enough evidence" but I don't have the copies of the notes anymore. Anyway, this discussion will always be biased one way or the other. I think that summary of Zenons and my mails probably is as close to the truth as you will get. Conclusions will depend on your political views and on which side of the table you sit. The topic that started this was discussions on ISPs role on judging content. The Swedish ISPs have had more reason to discuss recently due to child-porn, neo-nazi web-sites and TV decoders than we ever had with Flashback. - kurtis -

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CC-TLD .af
by Hendrianto Muljawan 14 Jan '03

14 Jan '03

Hello all, does anybody knows the NIC for Afghanistan ? I have to register a domain in the com.af, but I couldn't find any registrar who can help. I did try to contact hostmaster(a)netnames.net, that is listed as the sponsor for the CC-TLD .af, but I don't get any reply. Any information regarding CC-TLD .af will be greatly appreciated. thanks, Muljawan

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NYT on Thing.net
by batz 14 Jan '03

14 Jan '03

I realize that this is skirting the edge of operational, but I think it is notable that Verios security policy and incident response allowed for an entire ISP to be disconnected at their discretion. I suppose that any ISP can turn off a connection they deem a threat to the rest of their operations, but I think this incident can serve as an example of how ISP's can get dragged into political spats. It shows how Verio was manipulated by Dow to squelch critics, but also how their incident response was used to martyr the ISP they shut down. It is also worth noting how Verio allowed themselves to be PR collateral damage, taking one of their customers down in the process, when the conflict was between a group of artists and Dow. If only large providers were this responsive to spam. Cheers, ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 15:25:20 -0100 From: nettime's_roving_reporter <nettime(a)bbs.thing.net> To: nettime-l(a)bbs.thing.net Subject: <nettime> NYT on Thing.net [ via <tbyfield(a)panix.com>] <http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/23/arts/design/23ARTS.html?pagewanted=print&…> Cyberspace Artists Paint Themselves Into a Corner By MATTHEW MIRAPAUL In a 1950's horror movie the Thing was a creature that killed before it was killed. Now in a real-life drama playing on a computer screen near you, the Thing is an Internet service provider that is having trouble staying alive. Some might find this tale equally terrifying. The Thing provides Internet connections for dozens of New York artists and arts organizations, and its liberal attitude allows its clients to exhibit online works that other providers might immediately unplug. As a result the Thing is struggling to survive online. Its own Internet-connection provider is planning to disconnect the Thing over problems created by the Thing's clients. While it may live on, its crisis illustrates how difficult it can be for Internet artists to find a platform from which they can push the medium's boundaries. Wolfgang Staehle, the Thing's founder and executive director, said the high-bandwidth pipeline connecting the Thing to the Internet would be severed on Feb. 28 because its customers had repeatedly violated the pipeline provider's policies. While the exact abuses are not known, they probably involve the improper use of corporate trademarks and generating needless traffic on other sites. If Mr. Staehle is unable to establish a new pipeline, the 100 Web sites and 200 individual customers, mostly artists, that rely on the Thing for Internet service could lose their cyberspace homes. In a telephone interview from the Thing's office in Chelsea, Mr. Staehle (pronounced SHTAW-luh) said, "It's not fair that 300 of our clients will suffer from this and I might be out of business." The Thing's pipeline is currently supplied by Verio Inc. of Englewood, Colo., which declines to comment on its troubles with the Thing. Mr. Staehle said that he had not received official word from Verio, but that the company's lawyers told the Thing the service would be cut off because of the violations. For some digital artists, these are perilous times. With the Internet's rise have come increased concerns about everything from online privacy to digital piracy. Naturally artists are addressing these matters in Internet-based works. So an online project about copyright violations inevitably violates some copyrights, and a work that warns how a computer could be spying on you could very well be spying on you. Most Internet service providers yank such works offline whenever legal challenges are raised, so open-minded providers like the Thing become an important alternative. But as Alex Galloway, a New York artist, said, "There really are no true alternative Internet service providers because connectivity is still controlled by the telecommunication companies." Mr. Staehle has learned this the hard way. The project that overheated Verio's circuits was probably a Web site created by an online group of political activists called the Yes Men. The site, at dow-chemical.com, resembled Dow Chemical's real site, at dow.com. But the contents were phony news releases and speeches that ridiculed Dow officials for being more interested in profits than in making reparations for a lethal gas leak at a Union Carbide plant (now owned by Dow) in Bhopal, India, in 1984. The hoax's supporters said it was a parody. But Dow's lawyers contacted Verio to complain that the site infringed on its trademarks, among other sins. Initially it seemed to be just another fracas over corporate logos and other forms of intellectual property on the Internet. What happened next stunned Mr. Staehle. The Yes Men project had been put online by RTMark.com, a politically active arts group that uses the Web as its base and gets its Internet service from the Thing. After Dow complained about the fake Web site, Mr. Staehle said, Verio alerted the Thing, where a technician said he was not authorized to act. Within hours Verio cut off access to RTMark.com, as well as to all the Thing's Internet customers. These included innocent victims like Artforum magazine and the P. S. 1 Contemporary Art Center in Long Island City, Queens. Starting mid-evening on Dec. 4, the Thing was offline for 16 hours. Ted Byfield, a Thing board member who teaches a course at the Parsons School of Design on the social effects of technology, would not call Verio's action censorship. Instead he said, "They hit the panic button." He compared the temporary shutdown to a meat packer who recalls all his beef products after discovering a small batch of tainted hamburger. Mr. Staehle soon discovered that his virtual supermarket might be permanently closed, too. When he called Verio to ask why his entire network had been unplugged instead of the sole offending site, he said, a Verio lawyer told him that the Thing had violated its policies repeatedly and that its contract would be terminated. Verio had shut down part of the Thing once before. In 1999 the online toy retailer eToys.com asked a California court to stop an online arts group from using its longtime Web address etoy.com. The Electronic Disturbance Theater, a Thing client, staged a virtual protest by overloading the retailer's site with traffic during the holiday season. Verio blocked access to one of the Thing's computers until the protest site's owners agreed to take it offline. These two episodes may give Verio enough cause to bump the Thing from the Internet. If so Verio would appear to be a surprising censor. In January the company earned praise from Internet-rights supporters when it refused to grant a request by the Motion Picture Association of America to shut down a Web site containing DVD-copying software. Mr. Staehle said he had no knowledge of the Yes Men site. "I am not in the business of policing my clients," he said. "I am just a carrier." Although some Thing customers pursue a radical political agenda, most do not. Even RTMark.com was included in the Internet-art section of the 2000 Whitney Biennial exhibition. One might assume that museums and other cultural organizations could provide a safe haven for challenging works. But they are just as susceptible to legal threats and technical restrictions. For instance, in May the New Museum of Contemporary Art in New York was forced to remove a surveillance-theme artwork from the Internet after its service provider said it violated its policies. Mr. Staehle said he was considering several plans that would keep the Thing alive. While he is confident that he will find another pipeline provider, he said, he is worried that customers will abandon the Thing during the transition, financially ruining it. The Thing is one of the oldest advocates of online culture. Mr. Staehle, who moved to New York from his native Germany in 1976, started the Thing in 1991 as an electronic bulletin board where artists could exchange ideas about how the new medium would affect the arts. The electronic forum continues at bbs.thing .net, where artists post projects and review works. Charles Guarino, Artforum's associate publisher, said that should the Thing vanish, "it would be a terrible loss." But he noted that the Thing's customers would simply find new, if less sympathetic, Internet service providers. Mr. Guarino said, "Everyone will still continue to exist, probably even the people who got them into all this trouble in the first place." He added, "Poor thing." # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: majordomo(a)bbs.thing.net and "info nettime-l" in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime(a)bbs.thing.net

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Re: just testing
by Rick Irving 14 Jan '03

14 Jan '03

Hrmmm.. Looks like a temporary de-subscription during upgrade. Sorry for the white noise. :\

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RE: OT. - The end of inet-access
by W.D.McKinney 14 Jan '03

14 Jan '03

Thanks for taking the time to help me today. I am subscribed again and I apologize for sending the wrong signal to NANOG today. Operator error *again*. Dee

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just testing
by Rick Irving 14 Jan '03

14 Jan '03

Ignore.

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APNIC New IPv6 address block
by John Tran 14 Jan '03

14 Jan '03

Dear colleagues APNIC received the IPv6 address range 2001:0E00::/23 from IANA in January 2003 and will be making allocations from this range in the near future. Please configure your routing filters accordingly. For more information on the resources administered by APNIC, see: http://www.apnic.net/db/ranges.html For information on the minimum allocation sizes within address ranges administered by APNIC, see: http://www.apnic.net/db/ranges.html For information on the minimum allocation sizes within address ranges administered by APNIC, see: http://www.apnic.net/db/min-alloc.html Kind regards Son ____________________________________________________________________ Resources Services Manager <Son(a)apnic.net> Asia Pacific Network Information Centre phone: +61 7 3858 3100 http://www.apnic.net fax: +61 7 3858 3199 Helpdesk phone: +61 7 3858 3188 email: helpdesk(a)apnic.net Please send Internet Resource Requests to <hostmaster(a)apnic.net> _____________________________________________________________________ * APNIC-ANNOUNCE: Announcements concerning APNIC * * To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe" to apnic-announce-request(a)apnic.net * * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request(a)apnic.net *

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OT. - The end of inet-access
by W.D.McKinney 13 Jan '03

13 Jan '03

Just wondering if anyone here has some info ? Any idea if the final nail is in inet-access ? Thanks W.D.McKinney (Dee)

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US-Asia Peering
by William B. Norton 13 Jan '03

13 Jan '03

Hi all - I understand that there is a real glut of AP transoceanic capacity, particularly on the Japan-US cable where twice as much capacity is idle as is in use. This has sent the price point down to historic levels, O($28K/mo for STM-1) or less than $200/Mbps for transport! This is approaching an attractive price point for long distance peering so, just for grins,... Are there transport providers that can provide a price point around $100/Mbps for transport capacity from Tokyo to the U.S. (LAX/SJO) ? What are the technical issue with extreme long distance (transoceanic) peering? In particular, what are the issues interconnecting layer 2 switches across the ocean for the purposes of providing a global peering cloud using: 0) vanilla circuit transport to interconnect the switches 1) MPLS framed ethernet service to interconnect the switches 2) tunnelled transport over transit to interconnect the switches Thanks in advance. Bill

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Phoenix Topics
by Susan Harris 13 Jan '03

13 Jan '03

Here are the talks we've scheduled so far for the Phoenix NANOG, Feb. 9-11: Sunday Tutorials - A Methodology for Troubleshooting Interdomain IP Multicast Level: Intermediate/Advanced Bill Nickless & Caren Litvanyi, Argonne Nat'l Lab - BGP Techniques for Service Providers Level: Introductory Philip Smith, Cisco - BGP Troubleshooting with Juniper Examples Level: Intermediate/Advanced Joseph M. Soricelli, Juniper - IPv6 Deployment Concepts Level: Intermediate Tony Hain, Cisco General Session (Monday - Tuesday) - Experiences with Large-scale Network Consolidation (Or, How I Spent My Summer Vacation) Dave Israel & William Charnock, Allegiance Telecom - BST: BGP Scalable Transport Van Jacobson, Cengiz Alaettinoglu, & Kedar Poduri, Packet Design - Internet Exchange Operator Panel Mike Hughes, LINX, moderator - Peering Evolution Daniel Golding, AOL Time Warner - SIP Operation in the Public Internet: What Makes Running It a Challenge and What it Takes to Deal With It Jiri Kuthan, iptel.org - High Density Wireless Deployment Joel Jaeggli, University of Oregon - Large Scale Wireless Networks, UT's Case Philippe Hanset, University of Tennessee - CIDR Police - Please Pull Over and Show Us Your BGP Announcements Barry Greene, Cisco; Hank Nussbacher, Riverhead Networks - IPv4 Address Allocation and BGP Routing Table Evolution Cathy Wittbrodt, Packet Design - BGP4 Anycast for Root Name Service -- Threat or Menace? Suzanne Woolf, ISC; Mark Schleifer, Cogent - Operational Testing of DNS Resources - IPv6/DNS Symbiosis Bill Manning, ISI - The BGP TTL Security Hack (BTSH) Dave Meyer, Sprint - Lack of Priority Queuing on RPs Considered Harmful Vijay Gill, AOL Time Warner - Update on the 802.17 RPR Standard Andrew Brown, Cisco Monday Afternoon Research Forum - Achieving Near-Optimal Traffic Engineering Solutions for Current OSPF/IS-IS Networks Ashwin Sridharan & Roch Guerin, University of Pennsylvania Christophe Diot, Sprint Monday Evening BOFs - Peering BOF VI Bill Norton, Equinix, moderator - ISP Security BOF II Barry Raveendran Greene, Cisco Merike Kaeo, merike.com, moderators Abstracts for most talks are on the web: http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0302/topics.html Looking forward to seeing you, and please reserve your hotel room before Saturday, Jan. 18, when the NANOG rate expires: http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0302/hotel.html

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