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Re: Paul Vixie on the wgig report
by Fergie (Paul Ferguson) 20 Jul '05

20 Jul '05

I would highly recommend reading Paul's comments, as he brings up some very key issues. He also mentioend one of my pet peeves, which is the WGIG's posture on peering arrangements: Vixie says: [snip] "WGIG seems to be concerned about the general lack of interconnection and the anticompetitive cost of entry for new ISPs. One can see the ITU influence here (ITU more or less regulates international telephone service today), but when I think of the way national sovereignty has been abused to turn telecommunications access fees into [ major GDP sources ], I already don't think I'm going to like the endgame if "regulation" occurs in the area of international Internet peering and interconnection." [snip] Seeing as how the Internet isn't a science project anymore, it's a little difficult to reconcile taking something which are now _business_ decisions for many organizations and turing the entire peering issue into regulatory hell. $.02, - ferg -- Suresh Ramasubramanian <ops.lists(a)gmail.com> wrote: http://fm.vix.com/internet/governance/wgig-report-july05.html I like the ending - > I think a lot of hard work went into this report, and considering the > number and strength and diversity of views expressed during the WGIG > process, the result has to be called herculean. I'm a bit concerned that > it amounts to a generally agreed upon statement that "somebody ought to > put a bell on that cat". Turning hegemony into democracy by peaceful means > has been done only a few times in human history, and the outlook for this > time isn't good. > > Paul Vixie -- Suresh Ramasubramanian (ops.lists(a)gmail.com) -- "Fergie", a.k.a. Paul Ferguson Engineering Architecture for the Internet fergdawg(a)netzero.net or fergdawg(a)sbcglobal.net ferg's tech blog: http://fergdawg.blogspot.com/

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clec vs ilec, how do you know who's lying?
by David Hubbard 20 Jul '05

20 Jul '05

Hello everyone, not sure if this is off topic or not since it is will be operational in nature if I can ever get the service set up. :-) I'm having the pleasure, or lack thereof, of ordering some data connectivity via a very large clec which requires the ilec to provide the local loops. Well we're about two months past the estimated install completion and all I get from the clec is continuous blame pointed at the ilec who has now missed three install dates and in turn has wasted staff time sitting there from 8 to 5 each of the days; assuming they were really scheduled in the first place. I know the two types of entities don't particularly like each other but at this point how do I tell who's lying to me? I have supposed work order numbers for the ilec but I don't have any direct contact with them to see if they are real numbers and if the disposition of the previous work orders are what the clec has told me or if they are messing things up themselves and trying to cover it up. Thanks, David

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prodigy.net.mx contact please?
by Suresh Ramasubramanian 20 Jul '05

20 Jul '05

Preferably someone with mailops experience there, who can troubleshoot what appears to be some mail delivery brokenness at prodigy.net.mx - that is causing email to their users to be accepted by your users and then lost. regards srs -- Suresh Ramasubramanian (ops.lists(a)gmail.com)

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Paul Vixie on the wgig report
by Suresh Ramasubramanian 20 Jul '05

20 Jul '05

http://fm.vix.com/internet/governance/wgig-report-july05.html I like the ending - > I think a lot of hard work went into this report, and considering the > number and strength and diversity of views expressed during the WGIG > process, the result has to be called herculean. I'm a bit concerned that > it amounts to a generally agreed upon statement that "somebody ought to > put a bell on that cat". Turning hegemony into democracy by peaceful means > has been done only a few times in human history, and the outlook for this > time isn't good. > > Paul Vixie -- Suresh Ramasubramanian (ops.lists(a)gmail.com)

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Re: Non-English Domain Names Likely Delayed
by Brandon Butterworth 19 Jul '05

19 Jul '05

>> Already, some 21 TLDs are whitelisted, including .cn, .tw, a number >> of European ccTLDs, .museum, and .info. Any other registrars who >> want to be supported can simply E-mail Gerv at the Mozilla >> Foundation, or his Opera counterpart, and give them a pointer to >> their anti-spoofing rules. I don't think it's a good idea to introduce a system with a known vulnerability and try and work around it by having some people agree they'll police the exploit. No doubt the people protecting us will be tempted to exploit it themselves by trying to sell the spoofs to the spoofed domain owner as essential international branding (.mobi, yeah. .com is shorter and people should learn about content negotiation to present suitable content to mobiles, no need to buy your domains all over again) If this goes ahead the browser needs a default on button for "please don't expose me to this spoofing attack" brandon

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RE: clec vs ilec, how do you know who's lying?
by Reeves, Rob 19 Jul '05

19 Jul '05

Jason "Feren" Olsen: > So go to the website for the ILEC and find the conect information. As an example, SBC plasters > information for the different teams all over their pages. If you identify that you're with your employer > when you call in and summarize the problem, you'll get transferred to somebody who can answer your > question on the ILEC work orders. Hell, they'll probably leap at the chance to "help" you in order to > try and convince you to move away from the CLEC. This may or may not work the way you'd think. As far as the ILEC is/should be concerned, their customer is the CLEC since that's where the work order came from. If you contact the ILEC and just happen to get that person who doesn't care, you'd be in luck. Otherwise, they'll likely say that there's nothing they can do, and that you must escallate through the CLEC...which quite frankly is exactly what you should be doing. If it's taken this long for them to not bring up your service, you should be holding your account rep by his/her ears and screaming through a bull-horn, mercilessly. Push on the sales side and make them do the leg-work. Demand to speak with a manager, and if you don't start getting satisfactory answers within 24 hours, go to the manager's manager, and continue up to VP level if necessary. With enough pressure from the top, these folks will suck it up and get it done, despite any animosity between them. Best of luck! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rob Reeves IP Network Engineer Arbinet-thexchange, Inc. 703-456-4172 rreeves(a)arbinet.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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RE: clec vs ilec, how do you know who's lying?
by Olsen, Jason 19 Jul '05

19 Jul '05

David Hubbard: > how do I tell who's lying to me? If their lips are moving, they're probably lying. > I have supposed work order numbers for > the ilec but I don't have any direct contact So go to the website for the ILEC and find the conect information. As an example, SBC plasters information for the different teams all over their pages. If you identify that you're with your employer when you call in and summarize the problem, you'll get transferred to somebody who can answer your question on the ILEC work orders. Hell, they'll probably leap at the chance to "help" you in order to try and convince you to move away from the CLEC. -Fer Jason "Feren" Olsen DeVry, Inc. Senior Network Engineer One Tower Lane Em: jolsen(a)devry.com Oakbrook Terrace, IL 60181-4624 Ph: 630.645.1607 Fx: 630.382.2929

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RE: clec vs ilec, how do you know who's lying?
by Kuhtz, Christian 19 Jul '05

19 Jul '05

> Hello everyone, not sure if this is off topic or not > since it is will be operational in nature if I can ever > get the service set up. :-) I'm having the pleasure, or > lack thereof, of ordering some data connectivity via a > very large clec which requires the ilec to provide the > local loops. Well we're about two months past the > estimated install completion and all I get from the clec > is continuous blame pointed at the ilec who has now > missed three install dates and in turn has wasted staff > time sitting there from 8 to 5 each of the days; assuming > they were really scheduled in the first place. I know the > two types of entities don't particularly like each other > but at this point how do I tell who's lying to me? I > have supposed work order numbers for the ilec but I don't > have any direct contact with them to see if they are > real numbers and if the disposition of the previous > work orders are what the clec has told me or if they are > messing things up themselves and trying to cover it up. Hmm, I don't know specifically how you'd resolve that since your customer relationship is likely with the clec, but.. Every ilec has a wholesale unit (in BellSouth territory this is called BellSouth ICS - Interconnection Services) and you could probably get in touch with them directly and run the work order numbers by them and see what they say. That's the sort of thing I did when I was on the outside and blamestorming started. ;-) Best regards, Christian The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers. 163

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Can someone from AOL contact me offlist?
by Joseph Nuara 19 Jul '05

19 Jul '05

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Re: Non-English Domain Names Likely Delayed
by Brandon Butterworth 19 Jul '05

19 Jul '05

> Unfortunately, the problem is inherent in human writing systems. > Consider rnicrosoft.com and paypaI.com. And people are no better than muppets in ensuring they don't screw themselves up > The good news is that fairly simple homograph rules can be applied Rules aren't safe, it involves humans. I presume that if a Chinese bank were to register their name then the similar .com would be blocked for them (just as the Chinese paypal alike would be blocked). What if the .com is a blogger, would the Chinese bank accept being blocked, would they exert pressure to have theirs anyway or would the blogger be fair game for lawyers/ICANN managed domain hijacking? "If it's too hard people won't understand it" brandon

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