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Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth
by Brandon Butterworth 27 Sep '10

27 Sep '10

> > I fail to see the point. If an ISP needs to add caches they may > > as well just add a simple, cheaper, standard, http cache. > > It's a bang-per-buck issue, and depends highly on whether your > particular network sees more HTTP or P2P traffic. Orly. No, I mean if there have to be caches why use p2p in the first place, once there's a network of caches p2p becomes a more complicated http and that model has been well optimised by some. I know the people stealing things don't want to pay akamai but games charging for access are a different matter. brandon

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Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth
by Brandon Butterworth 27 Sep '10

27 Sep '10

> Even if we had > ISP supporting caches, there is always the problem getting p2p clients > to support them (given they often are too busy trying to circumvent). I fail to see the point. If an ISP needs to add caches they may as well just add a simple, cheaper, standard, http cache. No special clients required, no fiddling to make locality work and no extra, expensive in some architectures, last mile traffic brandon

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Re: Routers in Data Centers
by ym1r.jr＠gmail.com 27 Sep '10

27 Sep '10

As far as I know open source solutions doesn't have support for fabric or high speed asics. So the throughput will always be a big difference. Unless you are comparing a pure packet software interrupt platform. ------Original Message------ From: Adam Armstrong To: Venkatesh Sriram To: nanog(a)nanog.org Subject: Re: Routers in Data Centers Sent: Sep 25, 2010 7:18 PM On 24/09/2010 11:22, Venkatesh Sriram wrote: > Hi, > > Can somebody educate me on (or pass some pointers) what differentiates > a router operating and optimized for data centers versus, say a router > work in the metro ethernet space? What is it thats required for > routers operating in data centers? High throughput, what else? Depending upon the specific requirements of the scenario at each type of site, the optimal devices could be either identical, or completely different. :) adam. Sent via my BlackBerry® device from Claro

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Routers in Data Centers
by Venkatesh Sriram 27 Sep '10

27 Sep '10

Hi, Can somebody educate me on (or pass some pointers) what differentiates a router operating and optimized for data centers versus, say a router work in the metro ethernet space? What is it thats required for routers operating in data centers? High throughput, what else? Thanks, Venkatesh

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Re: Odd BGP AS Path
by Sriram, Kotikalapudi 26 Sep '10

26 Sep '10

We (at NIST) performed some additional data analysis to characterize AS_SETs in BGP updates in RIB entries. The results can be found in the slides at this link: http://www.antd.nist.gov/~ksriram/AS_SET_Aggregator_Stats.pdf This work was presented at the IETF SIDR WG meeting in Maastricht in July 2010. Please look at mainly slides #3 and #4. The findings are consistent with Olaf Maennel's (that Randy posted) in term of how few updates have AS_SETs in them. We additionally looked at the the question of -- when AS_SET is present, how often does the ASN in the AGGRGATOR field in the update matches the originating AS? This question has relevance to origin AS validation using ROAs in RPKI -- to try to propose how origin validation can be done if AS_SET is present in an update. Please look into my slides if you are interested in the details. I will be happy to answer any questions. Currently, the push from several of us (Warren Kumari, Randy, many others -- I support it too) is to deprecate AS_SETs altogether in future BGP enhancements such as RPKI. This would mean an update will not pass origin validation (in fact, origin validation using ROAs will not even be attempted) if AS_SET is present in an update. Comments/reaction/feedback to this from ops people who currently use AS_SETs would be very useful. (This would be good for discussion of Warren's draft in the IDR WG. http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wkumari-deprecate-as-sets-00 ) Sriram ==================================================== >Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 10:59:07 -0400 >From: Randy Bush <randy(a)psg.com> >Subject: Re: Odd BGP AS Path >To: Warren Kumari <warren(a)kumari.net> >Cc: nanog(a)nanog.org > >just to uncloak a bit. when we first decided to look at deprecating >as-sets et alia, we begged olaf maennel to analyse the use thereof. the >following is edited from internal email from early august. we then >begged one of our number, warren, to do the dirty, and he was kind >enough to do so. we owe him. > >--- > >using data from ripe r00 >years total real >stable as-sets as-sets > 7 4 2 > 6 6 2 > 5 20 3 > 4 22 5 > 3 64 16 > 2 214 87 > 1 875 289 > > years stable is how many years that as-set was announced for that > prefix. > > total as-sets is the number of prefixes that had any as-set. > >real as-sets is the number of prefixes with as-sets which were not >singleton asns and were not private asns. > >olaf scanned for ten years but none were stable for more than seven. > >in ten years, 1205 different prefixes with as-sets were seen. removing >private asns and removing singletons left only 404 prefixes over the ten >years. > >he did not check for covering prefixes, i.e. two prefixes with the same >as-set where one was a sub-prefix of the other, longer, one. > >and i suspect the data are somewhat self-similar. i.e. the 289 that >were stable for the last year may have shorter term components which >were much higher. i.e. looking at data for a week or a day may give >higher values. > >a graph which should be pretty self-explanitory may be found at > > http://archive.psg.com/fraction-and-absolute-number-of-ASsets-in-table-over… > >it is interesting that, at no time, i.e. in no single rib dump, were >there more than 23 prefixes with as-sets. while this is suspicious, it >seems to be true. > >randy

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large icmp packet issue
by fedora fedora 26 Sep '10

26 Sep '10

I am having problem getting ping to work to a specific destination host when using large size icmp packet and i am hoping someone here can offer some suggestion. With regular ping, i can ping this remote host without any problem, but if i crank up the packet size to above 1500 (1500 still works), i won't get any icmp reply. My first thought was this was a pmtu issue. but when I ran tcpdump on this remote host, i saw the incoming ping requests and this host actually sent back icmp replies, so it appears that there is some device in between blocking these large size icmp reply packets. Here is the question, how can i find out which hop on the path is causing this behavior? FD

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Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth
by Robert Bonomi 26 Sep '10

26 Sep '10

> From nanog-bounces+bonomi=mail.r-bonomi.com(a)nanog.org Sat Sep 25 17:00:42 2010 > Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 00:01:38 +0200 > From: Jeroen Massar <jeroen(a)unfix.org> > To: Valdis.Kletnieks(a)vt.edu > Subject: Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth > Cc: NANOG <nanog(a)merit.edu> > > On 2010-09-25 23:53, Valdis.Kletnieks(a)vt.edu wrote: > > On Sat, 25 Sep 2010 21:43:25 BST, Matthew Walster said: > > > >> Was anything ever standardised in that field? I imagine with much of > >> P2P traffic being (how shall I put this...) less than legal, it's of > >> questionable legality and the ISPs would not want to be held liable > >> for the content cached there? > > > > The ISP is off the hook on that one. 17 USC 512(2) specifically carves out an ISP > > safe-harbor for data that's only cached on an ISP's servers due to an end > > user's request. IANAL, so have somebody you pay for legal advice read 17 USC 512(2) > > and tell you what they think. > > So it that is true, if you define "news server" as a "cache", even > though you have to buy several terabytes, make that several petabytes, > to "be able to "cache" this data one along with all the network > environment to support getting data out of this "cache", the ISP is > completely in the clear even though that "cache" is the sole single > point where one can retrieve that "cached" data from even years after > the data was originally put on the network, the original is gone and > that "cache" works without anything being attached to it ? :) There is existant _recent case law, specifically with regard to operating a newsserver, that holds otherwise. Of course the server operator was blatently _advertizing_ the copyright-infringing (and more) nature of their content. Several of the major ISPs who recently discontinued providing USENET did so as a direct result of the above-mentioned case -- attorney-generals were 'making noises' -- and the ISP chose not to risk a confrontation.

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Re: large icmp packet issue
by Robert Bonomi 26 Sep '10

26 Sep '10

> From nanog-bounces+bonomi=mail.r-bonomi.com(a)nanog.org Sat Sep 25 21:56:30 2010 > Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 21:57:53 -0500 > Subject: large icmp packet issue > From: fedora fedora <fedorafans(a)gmail.com> > To: nanog(a)nanog.org > > I am having problem getting ping to work to a specific destination host when > using large size icmp packet and i am hoping someone here can offer some > suggestion. > > With regular ping, i can ping this remote host without any problem, but if i > crank up the packet size to above 1500 (1500 still works), i won't get any > icmp reply. > > My first thought was this was a pmtu issue. but when I ran tcpdump on this > remote host, i saw the incoming ping requests and this host actually sent > back icmp replies, so it appears that there is some device in between > blocking these large size icmp reply packets. > > Here is the question, how can i find out which hop on the path is causing > this behavior? Did you consider doing a traceroute? And then pinging the intermediate machines? with the big packets, that is. you'll get a response from the 'near side' of the problem, but -not- from any machine on the far side of it. Ping with small packets first, to discovr machines that dont respond to pings at all.

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MPLS service pricing
by Peter H. Schmidt 25 Sep '10

25 Sep '10

This is a bit of a long shot, but I am wondering if anyone can share the prices they are seeing for MPLS service in North America? I will be happy to anonymize, collate and share back to the list for everyone's information. I am working on some economic modeling for enterprise WANs in NA, but finding out the prices in this commodity market has gotten very challenging. If you have it by port speed, number of COS, number of sites, that would be great - but I don't really expect it. <g> A total monthly charge with some estimate of how many sites at which speeds and with how many classes will be good enough. You don't need to name your vendor if you don't wish to. Any/all numbers will be greatly appreciated! Thanks -- Peter -- Peter H. Schmidt phschmidt(a)alum.mit.edu

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Re: Facebook Issues/Outage in Southeast?
by chaim rieger 25 Sep '10

25 Sep '10

Yes tis down. Watch productivity go up ------Original Message------ From: Ernie Rubi To: nanog(a)nanog.org Subject: Facebook Issues/Outage in Southeast? Sent: Sep 23, 2010 12:39 Anyone else having trouble? We're colo'ed at the NOTA in Miami and directly peer with them - even though our session hasn't gone down we still can't reach them. Ernesto M. Rubi Sr. Network Engineer AMPATH/CIARA Florida International Univ, Miami Reply-to: ernesto(a)cs.fiu.edu Cell: 786-282-6783

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