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Re: CDNs should pay eyeball networks, too.
by Alex Rubenstein 02 May '12

02 May '12

I can't agree with this. You are assuming a cost-plus model. Many things are market-priced. If you are the only game in town, and you have a great product, you sell it for the most you can. You aren't a charity. The customer always has the option to not buy your product. ----- Original Message ----- From: Valdis.Kletnieks(a)vt.edu <Valdis.Kletnieks(a)vt.edu> To: David Miller <dmiller(a)tiggee.com> Cc: nanog(a)nanog.org <nanog(a)nanog.org> Sent: Tue May 01 18:18:48 2012 Subject: Re: CDNs should pay eyeball networks, too. On Tue, 01 May 2012 18:03:06 -0400, David Miller said: > From an accounting perspective, every R&D effort that I have seen or > been a part of was not billed to any customer. R&D has always, in my > experience, been an internal charge against a company's own profits. RIght - and when pricing the result of the R&D, you take into account the internal charges and estimated sales volume to determine a target price point. R&D was $316K and you estimate you can sell 100 of them, you're going to have to charge at least $3,160 a copy to make a profit on the project. You sank $150M into R&D and think you'll sell a million units, you'll need to charge $150 to break even. And so on. The point is that if you already got *paid* the $316K, it's morally wrong to include it in the calculation of "sunk costs we need to recoup to turn a profit".

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CDNs should pay eyeball networks, too.
by Dominik Bay 02 May '12

02 May '12

Yesterday I received the following mail, from a CDN: ---->8---- Greetings, Limelight Networks periodically reviews its interconnection strategy to ensure the quality and integrity of its interconnection between all its partners. We have recently updated our requirements for settlement-free peering which are posted at http://www.as22822.net/ This letter is to notify you that yyy no longer meets our minimum requirements. If yyy would like to maintain our current interconnectivity, there will be settlement associated with doing so. If you are interested in pursuing this option, please reply back to this email indicating such. Should your company decline this option, or if we do not have an agreement regarding the settlement in place prior to May 31st 2012, Limelight Networks will terminate the peering sessions on that day, with this letter serving as 30 day notice. Sincerely, ----8<---- The same mail was sent out last year, about end of April 2011, to another ISP I'm working with. They got depeered, but the ISP which received the mail above yesterday didn't meet the requirements last year either. I totally understand that some companies might not be able to handle sub-5Mbps peering sessions, be it technical or organisational, but >=100Mbps should be worth any effort, as long as it improves the network. In this particular case I'm talking about >=600Mbps of traffic send out by Limelight to "my" eyeballs, not mentioning their fairly small footprint in Germany in comparison to other CDNs. These points aside, we are talking about a Content *Delivery* Network here. There are CDNs out there who burn to improve their customer experience (both the content creators and the content receiver) at high cost. Having a Tier1 attitude and telling eyeball networks with <1Gbps of traffic exchanged to bugger off or pay is not one of the ways to improve this. At the end of the day I'm going to charge CDNs who want to deliver their customers content to my eyeballs and make me pay (about 2USD per Mbps, with a minimum of 1Gbps). -dominik

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RE: Network diagram app that shows realtime link utilizatin
by Hank Disuko 01 May '12

01 May '12

Thanks, I'll see if I can pull the correct OID and try it with the Dude again. Also, thanks to everyone who has responded. I realize the term "realtime" is subjective - I'm looking for near-realtime...maybe a 30 second interval. I've been playing around with Intermapper for about 30 minutes now...i like this tool, but would like to see bitrates represented on the map as opposed to the "crawling ants". clicking around to see if kind of view is available... thanks again folks. Good example, in my case anyway, of NANOG outperforming Google (or at least my crappy attempts at google search terms). -Hank ---------------------------------------- > Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 13:22:35 -0400 > From: sreed(a)nwwnet.net > To: gourmetcisco(a)hotmail.com > Subject: Re: Network diagram app that shows realtime link utilizatin > > I monitor non-MT devices with the Dude. > As long as you know the OID, it works just fine. > > On 5/1/2012 12:41 PM, Hank Disuko wrote: > > > > Hi folks, > > > > I wonder if anyone can recommend a network diagram tool that can show realtime link utilization via snmp? > > > > Mikrotik's "The Dude" app actually does exactly what I'm looking for, but the snmp support for non-RouterOS devices seems to be lacking, as it simply won't enumerate my switch interfaces in order to capture utilization. > > > > I've downloaded several trial tools (WhatsUp, NetCure, Solarwinds LANsurveyor etc.) but they don't serve this very basic need of mine to see the realtime link util in the diagram. > > > > Thanks, > > Hank Disuko > > > > > > > > ----- > > No virus found in this message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2411/4971 - Release Date: 05/01/12 > > > > > > > > -- > Scott Reed > Owner > NewWays Networking, LLC > Wireless Networking > Network Design, Installation and Administration > > > > Mikrotik Advanced Certified > > www.nwwnet.net > (765) 855-1060 > (765) 439-4253 > (855) 231-6239 > >

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Comcast DNS admin?
by Andrey Khomyakov 01 May '12

01 May '12

Is there Comcast DNS person. Please, contact off list --Andrey

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Power pricing in San Francisco Bay Area colocations?
by Ulf Zimmermann 01 May '12

01 May '12

I am trying to compare some pricing, anyone who has recently priced circuits such as 208V/30A single and 3-phase (max load factor of 40% for A+B power), could you tell me what you have been offered? I don't need the names of the companies the pricing comes from, just trying to see a snapshot of pricing, as I am currently in negotiation with one provider. Ulf.

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JUNOS forwards IPv6 link-local packets
by Chris Adams 30 Apr '12

30 Apr '12

I found out by accident yesterday that JUNOS routers will forward IPv6 packets with a link-local source address, in direct opposition of RFC 4291. To me, this seems to be a security hole that would be useful for DDoS attackers, giving them a way to send traffic that is difficult to trace back to the source. I try to be a good "net neighbor", using uRPF wherever possible (and other filters elsewhere) to make sure all packets coming from my network at least look valid, but this goes right by that. I posted over on juniper-nsp about this (more to see if I was just missing something) and got a response that it is a known thing. There's a closed Juniper PR, 556860, that says this affects all JUNOS devices except SRX (Trio platforms will get a fix starting with JUNOS 12.3). It doesn't sound like Juniper is going to fix this for the rest of us. I guess I'm mainly curious to see what others think about this. -- Chris Adams <cmadams(a)hiwaay.net> Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.

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Colo recommendations for 2001 6th (Westin BLDG) Seattle
by Eric Morin 30 Apr '12

30 Apr '12

Hi I am looking for a few RUs / ¼ rack (~20Amps of VAC) in a carrier neutral location with 24x365 smart hands service at 2001 6th Ave in Seattle. Any recommendations? Thanks in advance Eric RR Morin Internetwork Designer IP Network Engineering & Carrier Relations XplorNet Communications Inc AS22995 506.324.4533 | eric.morin(a)corp.xplornet.com NOTE: My email address has changed! 864 Anderson Dr | Saint John, New Brunswick | Canada E2M 4G3 <http://www.4gsatellite.ca/> This e-mail (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient and may contain confidential information protected by duties of confidentiality or privilege. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, please immediately notify us by return e-mail or by telephone, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Thank you. ________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message est destiné uniquement à la personne prévue et peut contenir des renseignements confidentiels et/ou privilégiés au titre dune obligation de confidentialité. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé, veuillez nous en informer sans délai par courriel ou téléphone et détruire ce message ainsi que toute pièce jointe, sans en garder de copie. Merci.

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Re: rpki vs. secure dns?
by Brandon Butterworth 30 Apr '12

30 Apr '12

> Reality check: I don't know that this is all that important, in the end. > So long as you can use an IGP locally with a default route to reach a > copy of the database, whether it be based on DNS, an RPKI, or anything > else, then you can bootstrap your EGP routing. If everything goes down > at the same time, then you would just start rebuilding from the places > where the root servers live, no matter what system's root servers we're > talking about. or you wait for the Elders of the Internet to visit with blessings http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDbyYGrswtg brandon

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Re: rpki vs. secure dns?
by Stephane Bortzmeyer 29 Apr '12

29 Apr '12

On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 11:28:58AM -0400, Jennifer Rexford <jrex(a)CS.Princeton.EDU> wrote a message of 37 lines which said: > How does this interact with the presence of certificates for > supernets, though? That is, suppose an ISP creates a legitimate ROA > for 12.0.0.0/8, after ensuring that all of its customers have > legitimate ROAs for the various subnets of 12.0.0.0/8. Now, suppose > one of these customers has its legitimate ROA revoked by a court > order. Would the legitimate announcement of that subnet (originated > by the customer's ASN) still result in UNKNOWN status, or would it > look like a sub-prefix hijack because the announcement has a > different ASN than the matching 12.0.0.0/8 prefix? The second (and therefore Alex Band's example is not good). But it depends on the value of the MaxLength attribute in the 12.0.0.0/8 ROA (section 3.3 of RFC 6482). If, in the future, RIRs or operators create ROAs for all the blocks they manage, revocation of a ROA will be deadly.

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Re: rpki vs. secure dns?
by Brandon Butterworth 29 Apr '12

29 Apr '12

> Thus, removing a certificate or ROA *does NOT* result in an RPKI INVALID > route announcement; the result is RPKI UNKNOWN. Which is fine until UNKNOWNs are no longer permitted, a logical next step. It may not apply globally, initially perhaps just a US anti terrorist measure requiring all networks in the USA do it. > The only way a court order could make a route announcement get the > RPKI status *INVALID* would be to: > 1: Remove the original, legitimate ROA > 2: Tamper with the Registry, inject a false ROA authorizing another > AS to make the announcement look like a hijack Domains already get FBI hijacked so this seems plausible too. > All in all, for an RPKI-specific court order to be effective in > taking a network offline, the RIR would have to tamper with the > registry, inject false data and try to make sure it's not detected so > nobody applies a local override. Doesn't need to be undetected, more likely it'll be quite overt and have a big don't mess FBI entry in the RIR similar to www.megaupload.com brandon

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