- Test - lists.nanog.org

2013.02.06 NANOG57 day3 morning session notes posted
by Matthew Petach 06 Feb '13

06 Feb '13

Huge thanks to the program committee for pulling another great set of talks together; this really has been a top-notch bunch of content! Notes are up at http://kestrel3.netflight.com/2013.02.06-NANOG57-day3-morning-session.txt As always, if my apache process wedges, let me know and I'll kick it; or, if people want to copy the notes to pastebin, twiki, or other more stable sites, that's totally cool; I don't have any particular ownership over these notes, they're just out there in case folks missed a talk and want to catch up before the streams are put up on the nanog site. thanks again for another awesome conference! Matt

1 0

Re: Will wholesale-only muni actually bring the boys to your yard?
by Art Plato 06 Feb '13

06 Feb '13

I guess I should have clarified. We are looking at an FTTP overbuild. Eventually eliminating the HFC. FTTP makes more sense long term. We are also the local electric utility. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Helms" <khelms(a)zcorum.com> To: "Art Plato" <aplato(a)coldwater.org> Cc: "Peter Kristolaitis" <alter3d(a)alter3d.ca>, nanog(a)nanog.org Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 1:15:40 PM Subject: Re: Will wholesale-only muni actually bring the boys to your yard? I've set up several open access systems, usually in muni scenarios, and its non-trivial outside of PPPoE based systems (which had the several operator concept baked in) because the network manufacturers and protocol groups don't consider it important/viable. Trying to do open access on a DOCSIS network is very very difficult, though not impossible, because of how provisioning works. Making it work in many of the FTTx deployments would be worse because they generally have a single NMS/EMS panel that's not a multi-tenant system. On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:03 PM, Art Plato < aplato(a)coldwater.org > wrote: That is actually one of the big picture scenarios we are reviewing, with the ISP component being the last to go if there is a fair and competitive market the arises for our constituents. We won't allow the return of the old monopoly play that existed back then. This is too vital for the growth of our business community. We also view it as a quality of life issue for our citizens. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Kristolaitis" < alter3d(a)alter3d.ca > To: nanog(a)nanog.org Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 12:53:51 PM Subject: Re: Will wholesale-only muni actually bring the boys to your yard? There isn't any reason that you couldn't offer ALL of those services. Spin off the layer 1 & 2 services as a separate entity as far as finance & legal is concerned, then treat the muni ISP as just another customer of that entity, with the same pricing and service that's offered to everyone else. If there is enough competition with the layer 1 & 2 services, the muni ISP may or may not have that many customers, but it'll still be there as an "ISP of last resort", to borrow a concept from the financial system, ensuring competitive and fair pricing is available. - Pete On 01/30/2013 09:37 AM, Art Plato wrote: > I am the administrator of a Municipally held ISP that has been providing services to our constituents for 15 years in a competitive environment with Charter. We aren't here to eliminate them, only to offer an alternative. When the Internet craze began back in the late 1990's they made it clear that they would never upgrade the plant to support Internet data in a town this size, until we started the discussion of Bonds. We provide a service that is reasonably priced with local support that is exceptional. We don't play big brother. Both myself and my Director honor peoples privacy. No information without a properly executed search warrant. Having said all that. We are pursuing the feasibility of the model you are discussing. My director believes that we would better serve our community by being the layer 1 or 2 provider rather than the service provider. While I agree in principle. The reality is, from my perspective is that the entities providing the services will fall back to the original position that prompted us to build in the first place. Provide a minimal service for the maximum price. There is currently no other provider in position in our area to provide a competitive service to Charter. Loosely translated, our constituents would lose. IMHO. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Herrin" < bill(a)herrin.us > > To: "Jay Ashworth" < jra(a)baylink.com > > Cc: "NANOG" < nanog(a)nanog.org > > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 9:24:04 AM > Subject: Re: Will wholesale-only muni actually bring the boys to your yard? > > On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 7:39 PM, Jay Ashworth < jra(a)baylink.com > wrote: >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jean-Francois Mezei" < jfmezei_nanog(a)vaxination.ca > >>> It is in fact important for a government (municipal, state/privince or >>> federal) to stay at a last mile layer 2 service with no retail >>> offering. Wholesale only. >>> >>> Not only is the last mile competitively neutral because it is not >>> involved in retail, but it them invites competition by allowing many >>> service providers to provide retail services over the last mile >>> network. > As long as they support open peering they can probably operate at > layer 3 without harm. Tough to pitch a muni on spending tax revenue > for something that's not a complete product usable directly by the > taxpayers. > > >> It rings true to me, in general, and I would go that way... but there is >> a sting in that tail: Can I reasonably expect that Road Runner will in fact >> be technically equipped and inclined to meet me to get my residents as >> subscribers? Especially if they're already built HFC in much to all of >> my municipality? > Not Road Runner, no. What you've done, if you've done it right, is > returned being an ISP to an ease-of-entry business like it was back in > the dialup days. That's where *small* business plays, offering > customized services where small amounts of high-margin money can be > had meeting needs that a high-volume commodity player can't handle. > > Regards, > Bill Herrin > > -- Scott Helms Vice President of Technology ZCorum (678) 507-5000 -------------------------------- http://twitter.com/kscotthelms --------------------------------

5 11

Metro Ethernet, VPLS clarifications
by Abzal Sembay 06 Feb '13

06 Feb '13

Hi experts, I need some clarifications on these terms. Could somebody give explanations or share some links? When and how are these technologies used? Thanks in advance. -- Regards, Abzal

5 7

AT&T Uverse/DSL Network Engineer DNS question
by Tim Haak 06 Feb '13

06 Feb '13

Hi, Can a AT&T Uverse/DSL Network Engineer answer a question about the DNS server IPs that are handed out to customers please? I am currently testing from a Florida IP. Can you please let me know if all Uverse and DSL customers across the United States only use these 2 IPs as their primary and secondary DNS servers? 68.94.156.1 68.94.157.1 We provide services based on IP GEO-location. Since the 2 recursive resolvers below are registered in Texas every DNS query for any of our records return results that are intended for IPs in that region. In other words, users on the east coast would actually resolve to a central part of the US or west coast IP. Thanks in advance,Tim

3 4

WEBCAST TODAY - FCC Network Resiliency Workshop
by Joly MacFie 06 Feb '13

06 Feb '13

I know this is a topic dear to the members of the list. We are webcasting an FCC hearing today in Brooklyn on the topic of network resiliency. http://isoc-ny.org/p2/4783 It will be archived, and transcribed. -- --------------------------------------------------------------- Joly MacFie 218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast WWWhatsup NYC - http://wwwhatsup.com http://pinstand.com - http://punkcast.com VP (Admin) - ISOC-NY - http://isoc-ny.org -------------------------------------------------------------- -

1 0

2013.02.05 NANOG57 day2 afternoon session
by Matthew Petach 05 Feb '13

05 Feb '13

Notes, complete with typos are up at http://kestrel3.netflight.com/2013.02.05-NANOG57-day2-afternoon-session.txt definitely awesome content today; bummed i missed out, sounds like tonight should be an absolute blast at seaworld--have fun, and we'll see what tomorrow brings. :) Matt

1 0

Register Now for ARIN Public Policy Consultation @ NANOG 57
by John Curran 05 Feb '13

05 Feb '13

NANOGers - If you are going to be at NANOG 57 in Orlando, then please note that ARIN will be holding a Public Policy Consultation (PPC) there regarding several number resource policy proposals and you are very much encouraged to participate and make your views on these proposals known. Your NANOG 57 registration includes attending the ARIN Public Policy Consultation onsite if you so desire to do so. As ARIN's Public Policy Consultations are open to all, it is also possible to attend _just_ the PPC without charge, either in person or remotely. One needs to register separately to just participate in the public policy consultation, and this registration does not provide you entry to any other NANOG programming or social events. This is not likely to be relevant to many folks on this list (since I'll be seeing most of you onsite at NANOG 57!) but if you are going to be remotely watching NANOG 57, please take note and register for the ARIN PPC if you intend on participating in that session (and details are available in the attached announcement.) I'd like to take a moment to thank NANOG's Executive Director Betty Burke and the NANOG Planning Committee for making possible the ARIN Public Policy Consultation @ NANOG 57! Thanks! /John John Curran President and CEO ARIN Begin forwarded message: From: ARIN <info(a)arin.net<mailto:info@arin.net>> Subject: [arin-ppml] Register Now for ARIN Public Policy Consultation @ NANOG 57 Date: January 15, 2013 5:17:30 AM HST To: arin-ppml(a)arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net> Registration is now open for ARIN's first Public Policy Consultation (PPC), which will be held during NANOG 57 in Orlando, FL on 5 February 2013 at the Renaissance Orlando at Seaworld. The PPC is part of ARIN's new Policy Development Process, and it is an open public discussion of Internet number resource policy. Registered NANOG 57 attendees do not need to register to participate in this session. ARIN welcomes members of the NANOG community who will not be in Orlando to register as remote participants. If you plan to attend and are not registered for NANOG you must register for the PPC at the URL below. There is no registration fee for this 90-minute session, and it does not provide you entry to any other NANOG programming or social events. Learn more at https://www.arin.net/ppc_nanog57/index.html. Current policy proposals up for discussion at this meeting are: * ARIN-2012-2: IPv6 Subsequent Allocations Utilization Requirement - https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2012_2.html * ARIN-prop-182 Update Residential Customer Definition to not exclude wireless as Residential Service - http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/2012-October/026116.html * ARIN-prop-183 Section 8.4 Transfer enhancement- http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/2012-October/026203.html The PPC will also include a Policy Experience Report and Open Microphone. ARIN will offer a webcast, live transcript, and Jabber chat options for remote participants. Registered remote participants can submit comments and questions to the discussions during the meeting. Register to attend in person or remotely today! Visit https://www.arin.net/app/meeting/registration/. Regards, Communications and Member Services American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)

1 1

L3 East cost maint / fiber 05FEB2012 maintenance
by Josh Reynolds 05 Feb '13

05 Feb '13

I know a lot of you are out of the office right now, but does anybody have any info on what happened with L3 this morning? They went into a 5 hour maintenance window with expected downtime of about 30 minutes while they upgraded something like *40* of their "core routers" (their words), but also did this during some fiber work and completely cut off several of their east coast peers for the entirety of the 5 hour window. If anybody has any more info on this, on a NOC contact for them on the East Coast for future issues, you can hit me off off-list if you don't feel comfortable replying with that info here. Thanks, and I hope hope you guys are enjoying Orlando. -- *Josh Reynolds* esseph(a)gmail.com - (270) 302-3552

8 9

2013.02.05 NANOG57 day2 morning session notes are up
by Matthew Petach 05 Feb '13

05 Feb '13

I posted my notes from this morning's session at http://kestrel3.netflight.com/2013.02.05-NANOG57-day2-morning-session.txt Sorry about the gap in the notes about the telegeography talk; my player decided to wig out, and then die, and I lost a chunk while switching to the redundant computer. Awesome content this morning; definitely getting kudos in the survey feedback! Matt

1 0

RE: L3 East cost maint / fiber 05FEB2012 maintenance
by 2asx1y702＠sneakemail.com 05 Feb '13

05 Feb '13

I acknowledge sliding past the maintenance window, and we're seeing similar bumps, 09:42 - 09:46 CST is most recent. This are with our Wisconsin and Netherlands locations. They seem to be having a bad day all around. KG Hi Andrey!

2 1