April 2022 - Test - lists.nanog.org

Re: Let's Focus on Moving Forward Re: V6 still not supported re: 202203261833.AYC
by Abraham Y. Chen 01 Apr '22

01 Apr '22

Hi, Justin: 1) "... no one is stopping anyone from working on IPv4 ... ": After all these discussions, are you still denying this basic issue? For example, there has not been any straightforward way to introduce IPv4 enhancement ideas to IETF since at least 2015. If you know the way, please make it public. I am sure that many are eager to learn about it. Thanks. Regards, Abe (2022-03-26 18:42) On 2022-03-26 11:20, Justin Streiner wrote: > While the Internet is intended to allow the free exchange of > information, the means of getting that information from place to place > is and has to be defined by protocols that are implemented in a > consistent manner (see: BGP, among many other examples). It's > important to separate the ideas from the plumbing. > > That said, no one is stopping anyone from working on IPv4, so what > personal freedoms are being impacted by working toward deploying IPv6, > with an eye toward sunsetting IPv4 in the future? > > Keep in mind that IPv4 started out as an experiment that found its way > into wider use. It's a classic case of a test deployment that > suddenly mutated into a production service. Why should we continue to > expend effort to perpetuate the sins of the past, rather work toward > getting v6 into wider use? > > Is IPv6 a perfect protocol? Absolutely not, but it addresses the key > pain point of IPv4 - address space exhaustion. > > Thank you > jms > > On Sat, Mar 26, 2022 at 9:35 AM Abraham Y. Chen <aychen(a)avinta.com> wrote: > > > 3) Re: Ur. Pts. 5) & 6): I believe that there is a > philosophic / logic baseline that we need to sort out, first. That > is, we must keep in mind that the Internet community strongly > promotes "*/personal freedom/*". Assuming that by stopping others > from working on IPv4 will shift their energy to IPv6 is totally > contradicting such a principle. A project attracts contributors by > its own merits, not by relying on artificial barriers to the > competitions. Based on my best understanding, IPv6 failed right > after the decision of "not emphasizing the backward compatibility > with IPv4". It broke one of the golden rules in the system > engineering discipline. After nearly three decades, still evading > such fact, but defusing IPv6 issues by various tactics is the real > impedance to progress, not only to IPv4 but also to IPv6. > > > > <#m_4226728999263060367_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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What's a "normal" ratio of web sites to IP addresses...
by Bill Woodcock 01 Apr '22

01 Apr '22

…in a run-of-the-mill web hoster? This is really a question specifically for folks with web-site-hosting businesses. If you had, say, ten million web site customers, each with their own unique domain name, how many IPv4 addresses would you think was a reasonable number to host those on? HTTP name-based virtual-hosting means that you could, hypothetically, pile all ten million into a single IP address. At the other end of the spectrum, you could chew up ten million IPv4 addresses, giving a unique one to each customer. Presumably the actual practice lies somewhere in-between. But what ratio do people in that business think is reasonable? 10:1? 100:1? 1,000:1? I’m happy to take private replies and summarize/anonymize back to the list, if people prefer. Thanks! -Bill

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End of Mariupol's Internet
by Sean Donelan 01 Apr '22

01 Apr '22

The Last Days Of Mariupol’s Internet https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2022/03/31/the-last-days-of-mar… "Engineers who kept Ukraine’s port city online have gone missing or died in the carnage inflicted by Russia’s siege. Hope remains that Ukrainian cities knocked off the internet map will come back online fast once the shelling ends."

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IPv6 Only - was Re: Let's Focus on Moving Forward Re: V6 still not supported re: 202203261833.AYC
by Jacques Latour 01 Apr '22

01 Apr '22

So, in 25, 50 or 100 years from now, are we still going to be dual stack IPv4/IPv6? When are we going to give up on IPv4? People can run IPv4 all they want inside their networks for 1000s of years. What will it take to be IPv6 only? 😊 From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+jacques.latour=cira.ca(a)nanog.org> On Behalf Of Owen DeLong via NANOG Sent: March 29, 2022 3:52 PM To: Abraham Y. Chen <aychen(a)avinta.com> Cc: NANOG <nanog(a)nanog.org> Subject: [EXT] Re: Let's Focus on Moving Forward Re: V6 still not supported re: 202203261833.AYC Submit an Internet draft, same as any other IP related enhancement gets introduced. What you’re really complaining about is that it’s been virtually impossible to gain consensus to move anything IPv4 related forward in the IETF since at least 2015. Well… It’s a consensus process. If your idea isn’t getting consensus, then perhaps it’s simply that the group you are seeking consensus from doesn’t like your idea. Your inability to convince the members of the various working groups that your idea has merit isn’t necessarily a defect in the IETF process… It might simply be a lack of merit in your ideas. Owen On Mar 26, 2022, at 15:43 , Abraham Y. Chen <aychen(a)avinta.com<mailto:aychen@avinta.com>> wrote: Hi, Justin: 1) "... no one is stopping anyone from working on IPv4 ... ": After all these discussions, are you still denying this basic issue? For example, there has not been any straightforward way to introduce IPv4 enhancement ideas to IETF since at least 2015. If you know the way, please make it public. I am sure that many are eager to learn about it. Thanks. Regards, Abe (2022-03-26 18:42) On 2022-03-26 11:20, Justin Streiner wrote: While the Internet is intended to allow the free exchange of information, the means of getting that information from place to place is and has to be defined by protocols that are implemented in a consistent manner (see: BGP, among many other examples). It's important to separate the ideas from the plumbing. That said, no one is stopping anyone from working on IPv4, so what personal freedoms are being impacted by working toward deploying IPv6, with an eye toward sunsetting IPv4 in the future? Keep in mind that IPv4 started out as an experiment that found its way into wider use. It's a classic case of a test deployment that suddenly mutated into a production service. Why should we continue to expend effort to perpetuate the sins of the past, rather work toward getting v6 into wider use? Is IPv6 a perfect protocol? Absolutely not, but it addresses the key pain point of IPv4 - address space exhaustion. Thank you jms On Sat, Mar 26, 2022 at 9:35 AM Abraham Y. Chen <aychen(a)avinta.com<mailto:aychen@avinta.com>> wrote: 3) Re: Ur. Pts. 5) & 6): I believe that there is a philosophic / logic baseline that we need to sort out, first. That is, we must keep in mind that the Internet community strongly promotes "personal freedom". Assuming that by stopping others from working on IPv4 will shift their energy to IPv6 is totally contradicting such a principle. A project attracts contributors by its own merits, not by relying on artificial barriers to the competitions. Based on my best understanding, IPv6 failed right after the decision of "not emphasizing the backward compatibility with IPv4". It broke one of the golden rules in the system engineering discipline. After nearly three decades, still evading such fact, but defusing IPv6 issues by various tactics is the real impedance to progress, not only to IPv4 but also to IPv6.

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