August 2018 - Test - lists.nanog.org

Confirming source-routed multicast is dead on the public Internet
by Sean Donelan 03 Aug '18

03 Aug '18

Its tought to prove a negative. I'm extremely confident the answer is yes, public internet multicast is not viable. I did all the google searches, check all the usual CAIDA and ISP sites. IP Multicast is used on private enterprise networks, and some ISPs use it for some closed services. I got sent back with a random comment from a senior official saying "but I heard different." I bit my tongue, and said I would double (now quadruple) check. If any ISPs have working IP source-routed multicast on the public Internet that I missed, or what I got wrong. That's what content distribution networks (cdn's) are for instead.

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Re: possible hawaii weather issue next week
by Scott Weeks 02 Aug '18

02 Aug '18

________________________________ If you have stuff in Hawaii, you might want to start thinking about your DR plan. Things can change a lot for the better in 7 days, but they can also get ugly fast. Best to prepare just in case... https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/refresh/graphics_ep5+shtml/204426.shtml?cone https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/refresh/graphics_ep5+shtml/204426.shtml?tswind120 M is >110MPH -------------------------------------------- --- radevita(a)mejeticks.com wrote: From: Robert DeVita <radevita(a)mejeticks.com> Especially with the main carrier Hotel being located next to the ocean. -------------------------------------------- I'm guessing you mean DR Fortress. Most everything is next to the ocean here. :) However, DRF is likely pretty well protected from storm surge from a hurricane. It's also pretty well protected from flying debris, which is the main worry, especially when the winds are in excess of 100MPH. However, other facilities will have trouble (electric, fuel, etc), thus my suggestion to dust off DR plans and test if you haven't. We're the closest to the Asia Pacific countries you can get and still be in a US state and, as well, a good timezone between west coast going home and Asia coming in, so there may be a lot of folks here for some of the big networks, which is why I sent out the note. scott

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Re: Confirming source-routed multicast is dead on the public Internet
by Jakob Heitz (jheitz) 02 Aug '18

02 Aug '18

Hey, there's a better way. Split the movie into segments: Segment 1: Minute 1. Segment 2: Minute 2. Segment 3: Minutes 3,4. Segment 4: Minutes 5-8. Segment 5: Minutes 9-16. etc. Then send each segment in a loop. Each receiver receives every loop simultaneously. Each segment may start receiving part way through, but then it starts again. By the time a segment needs to play, it is completely received. A 128 minute movie needs 8 streams. While waiting for the first minute, you can play ads :) The shorter segments don't need to be sent for long: Receivers can stop receiving the short segments once they have received one loop of it. When no receiver is receiving a loop, you can stop sending it. Regards, Jakob. -----Original Message----- Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 19:24:21 +0300 From: Saku Ytti <saku(a)ytti.fi> Imagine someone like youtube or netflix would like to use multicast, instead of caches. They'd need to start new multicast stream for every content with small delay (to get more viewers on given stream), how much delay would consumer tolerate before content starts? 1min? 5min? So every minute or every 5 minute new stream of movie would be sent, except it would need to be sent many times, for each bitrate supported.

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possible hawaii weather issue next week
by Scott Weeks 02 Aug '18

02 Aug '18

If you have stuff in Hawaii, you might want to start thinking about your DR plan. Things can change a lot for the better in 7 days, but they can also get ugly fast. Best to prepare just in case... https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/refresh/graphics_ep5+shtml/204426.shtml?cone https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/refresh/graphics_ep5+shtml/204426.shtml?tswind120 M is >110MPH scott

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SAFNOG-4/EANOG/tzNOG Registration Now Open!
by Mark Tinka 02 Aug '18

02 Aug '18

Hi all. Pleased to inform you that registration for the upcoming SAFNOG-4/EANOG/tzNOG meeting in Dar Es Salaam, 24th - 29th September, is now open. You may register at the URL below: http://www.safnog.org/ We look forward to seeing you there. Mark.

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California fires: smart speakers and emergency alerts
by Sean Donelan 01 Aug '18

01 Aug '18

Has anyone heard if the smart speaker companies (Amazon Echo, Google Home) plan to include emergency alert capability? An estimate 10% of households own a smart speaker, and Gartner (well-known for its forecasting accuracy) predicts 75% of US households will have a smart speaker by 2020. Although most silicon valley tech nerds are still in the "invincible" years, were the california fires close enough to silicon valley that smart speaker developers might think an emergency could affect them. And an emergency alert capability in their smart speakers might be important?

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Re: Confirming source-routed multicast is dead on the public Internet
by John Kristoff 01 Aug '18

01 Aug '18

On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 21:28:31 +0000 Sean Donelan <sean(a)donelan.com> wrote: > I did all the google searches, check all the usual CAIDA and ISP > sites. IP Multicast is used on private enterprise networks, and some > ISPs use it for some closed services. More anecdotal evidence. Probably the best place to know what is going on with multicast is on the mboned list (yea that still exists): <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mboned/> Second best might be the Internet2 community where a number of institutions that have always had it might still have it turned on. Though there has been only one post in all of 2018 on their list if that tells you anything. There is almost no public multicast monitoring anymore. Practically all dead. You could poke around the I2 router proxies and see what is happening on some of the last of the remaining IP multicast-enabled Internet (hint, mostly noise from odd devices that have strayed outside the local institution): show multicast routes show pim join ... I keep hearing about some research project in the deep blue sea that uses it. You might find a small amount of it out there, but I'd bet overall its usage is teeny tiny and limited to a shrinking number of networks. Turned off interdomain multicast when I returned here in 2016. John

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Re: Confirming source-routed multicast is dead on the public Internet
by John Kristoff 01 Aug '18

01 Aug '18

On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 15:45:44 +0000 Adam Davenport <adam(a)davenpro.com> wrote: > I can confirm that GTT does indeed filter IP sourced from 224.0.0.0/4 at its edge. Do you mean sent to 224/4 or literally anything with a source address of 224/4? For those that are or are considering filtering, you might also want to consider limiting IGMP at router interfaces. The only known use of IGMP past the local link I'm aware of was for mtrace tool, but allowing it can pose some danger in two forms. One is yet another DDoS reflection and amplification vector, another is a some router system and configuration disclosure. See the following for details: <https://ccronline.sigcomm.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/p27-sargent.pdf> In experiments I ran in early parts of that work I found that Cogent did not forward IGMP messages through its network in my tests, but this may be due to the routing hardware/software they were using at the time rather than an explicit filtering policy. John

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unwise filtering policy on abuse mailboxes
by Dan Hollis 01 Aug '18

01 Aug '18

can we please just stop this nonsense? ip under your direct control originates sewage. you should accept reports as-is. requiring victims of your sewage to go through special contortions to report it to you is not acceptable. > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > <abuse(a)psychz.net> > (reason: 550 "The mail server detected your message as spam and has prevented delivery.")

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Windstream Contact
by Michael H Lambert 01 Aug '18

01 Aug '18

Could someone from Windstream please contact me off-list? We have a peering issue. Thanks, Michael ----- Michael H Lambert, GigaPoP Manager Phone: +1 412 268-4960 Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center/3ROX FAX: +1 412 268-5832 300 S Craig St, Pittsburgh, PA 15213 USA lambert(a)psc.edu

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