February 2015 - Test - lists.nanog.org

Re: Low cost WDM gear
by Kenneth McRae 16 Apr '15

16 Apr '15

I will live vicariously though your experiences with them. I'm good on FiberStore. :-) Thanks for the feedback.. On Feb 07, 2015, at 01:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal(a)snappytelecom.net> wrote: Maybe, your experience was the pivotal event that became a turning point in their customer service attitudes... :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: Support(a)Snappytelecom.net From: "Kenneth McRae" <kenneth.mcrae(a)me.com> To: "Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal(a)snappytelecom.net> Cc: "Rodrigo 1telecom" <rodrigo(a)1telecom.com.br>, "NANOG" <nanog(a)nanog.org> Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 4:24:18 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear Point taken on the specs.. Still doesn't excuse poor customer service and tech support. I never expect to be told that no refund will be issued when I am dissatisfied with the product. A request for RMA because something is not working as expected should not have to be escalated to the President of the company. Other than that I am sure FiberStore is a great company :-) On Feb 07, 2015, at 01:17 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal(a)snappytelecom.net> wrote: My point is...... ... The thing to rely on is/are the Specs. If the Specs are right or specs are wrong, that is what determines the product's mfg shortcoming (defect). Mfg. Engineers are people, just like you and me.... and people can make mistakes... Being an Engineer, when I ask someone to do the design work, I ask them to explain it, and this way I double check their work.... Yes Mfg. Engineers are known to F***up too. While it is expected to be disappointed when something does not work.. and having a bad taste for dealing with that mfg, claiming that all of that mfg products are bad is a whole different issue. I deal with FiberStore, my experience have been very different, when stuff purchased from them, did not meet the specs, they took it back no questions asked. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: Support(a)Snappytelecom.net From: "Kenneth McRae" <kenneth.mcrae(a)me.com> To: "Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal(a)snappytelecom.net> Cc: "Rodrigo 1telecom" <rodrigo(a)1telecom.com.br>, "NANOG" <nanog(a)nanog.org> Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 4:01:29 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear That's true up to a point. Specs are only as good as the entity providing the data. I can tell you a few stories about specs and some MAJOR fails by a major network equipment manufacturer failing to meet advertised specs. When you engage the engineering folks to assist in a build, they should know the true specs of their gear better than anyone else. If they say for a certain distance that A+B will work, then that is exactly what I expect. That is pretty basic. On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:56 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal(a)snappytelecom.net> wrote: More power to you .... I always get a chuckle out of statements such as ... "Compared FiberStore to another Vendor"... It was pointed out to me long time ago.... when someone said.. "My Chevy is better than a Ford".... Someone pointed out, hey, which Chevy ? the Chevette ? or the Corvette ? and Which Ford the Fiesta or Mustang ? Every mfg. has a lots and lots of products, and they are always getting improved... One has to pay attention to the specs.. even the same model products at different times don't have the same specs ! :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: Support(a)Snappytelecom.net From: "Kenneth McRae" <kenneth.mcrae(a)me.com> To: "Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal(a)snappytelecom.net> Cc: "Rodrigo 1telecom" <rodrigo(a)1telecom.com.br>, "NANOG" <nanog(a)nanog.org> Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:49:16 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear That's why I engage the engineering resources on their end to make sure the chosen candidate will support the use case. I have now performed an A/B comparison and the FiberStore gear is inferior. Excessive loss on the mux and optics. On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal(a)snappytelecom.net> wrote: If you pay close attention to the Spec Sheets, on power output, insertion loss, sensitivity, and do the proper calculation for your link, then using anyone's products, passive or active will work unless the devices do not meet specified specs. If you don't do your homework, cals on the design, loss, and just buy stuff based on whatever, then it does not matter who the mfg. is, you are very very likely to be surprised in a bad way. :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rodrigo 1telecom" <rodrigo(a)1telecom.com.br> To: "Kenneth McRae" <kenneth.mcrae(a)me.com> Cc: "NANOG" <nanog(a)nanog.org> Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:24:43 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear What others vendors do you using? Here in Brazil only PADTEC have this passive solution... Some days ago Digitel contact me to show your multiplex solution... Is a active solution... We import this from fiberstore, but i don't know others vendors to buy 10G sfp+ cwdm and this mux/demux... Enviado via iPhone  Grupo Connectoway > Em 07/02/2015, às 16:04, Kenneth McRae <kenneth.mcrae(a)me.com> escreveu: > > Hi Enviado, > > I cannot recommend FiberStore as I had a bad experience with them. I > needed to cover only 3km from A to B side. When using 10km optics, I saw > a loss of over 5db with their passive mux inserted into the path which > created a total loss of over -20db which is outside of the tolerances for > our equipment with 10km SFP+. Using another vendors low insertion loss > mux corrected our issue. I am sure if you are using an 80km optic, you > may be able to tolerate a higher insertion loss to cover < 60km. I also > notice that their CDWM optics averaged about 3db less in power output when > compared to other vendors. > > Thanks > > Kenneth > >> On Feb 07, 2015, at 10:33 AM, Rodrigo 1telecom <rodrigo(a)1telecom.com.br> >> wrote: >> > >> Hi kenneth... which the distance do you have from side A to side B when >> you using passive solutions from fiberstore( mux and demux)? >> I buy this mux and demux(4 channels single fiber) and only make a test >> about 60km( mux side A and demux on side B) with sfp+10gb for 80km... ( >> only see ddm on my ex3300( about -19db for 60km). Test switch access with >> ssh and pinging tests... >> What kind os issue do you have? For distances less than 60km is this >> solution good? >> Thanks!!! >> >> Enviado via iPhone  >> Grupo Connectoway >> >>> Em 07/02/2015, às 14:55, Kenneth McRae <kenneth.mcrae(a)me.com> escreveu: >>> Mike, >>> I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with OSI Hardware >>> equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment (excessive >>> loss, poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without >>> threatening legal action, etc.). I have had good results from the OSI >>> equipment so far. I run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channels). >>> On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Marín <mmg(a)transtelco.net> wrote: >>> Hi Mike >>> I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective >>> solutions. >>> Ekinops & Packetlight. >>> On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett <nanog(a)ics-il.net> wrote: >>> I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500) >>> muxes >>> to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they don't >>> work >>> so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides (therefore >>> must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of channels >>> and >>> have a distance limitation. >>> What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg? >>> ----- >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>> http://www.ics-il.com >>> -- >>> TRANSTELCO| Manuel Marin | VP Engineering | US: *+1 915-217-2232* | MX: >>> *+52 >>> 656-257-1109* >>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication is intended only for the use >>> of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain >>> information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure >>> under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient of this >>> information, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, >>> or >>> copying of the communication is strictly prohibited. >>> AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDAD: Esta comunicación es sólo para el uso de la >>> persona o entidad a la que se dirige y puede contener información >>> privilegiada, confidencial y exenta de divulgación bajo la legislación >>> aplicable. Si no es el destinatario de esta información, se le notifica >>> que >>> cualquier uso, difusión, distribución o copia de la comunicación está >>> estrictamente prohibido.

2 1

How are you doing DHCPv6 ?
by Randy Carpenter 02 Apr '15

02 Apr '15

I am wondering how people out there are using DHCPv6 to handle assigning prefixes to end users. We have a requirement for it to be a redundant server that is centrally located. DHCPv6 will be relayed from each customer access segment. We have been looking at using ISC dhcpd, as that is what we use for v4. However, it currently does not support any redundancy. It also does not do very much useful logging for DHCPv6 requests. Certainly not enough to keep track of users and devices. So, my questions are: How are you doing DHCPv6 with Prefix Delegation? What software are you using? When DHCPv6 with Prefix Delegation seems to be about the only way to deploy IPv6 to end users in a generic device-agnostic fashion, I am wondering why it is so difficult to find a working solution. thanks, -Randy -- | Randy Carpenter | Vice President - IT Services | Red Hat Certified Engineer | First Network Group, Inc. | (800)578-6381, Opt. 1 ----

13 37

Generating IPv6 list with filtergen.level3.net
by Smith, Courtney 28 Mar '15

28 Mar '15

Anyone out there know how to generate a IPv6 list Level3's filtergen? I tried Google but didn't find anything. () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments

4 4

Re: draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6-16
by Rogers, Josh 27 Mar '15

27 Mar '15

RFC7349 is a nice summary of everything we¹re still missing wrt MPLS and is relatively recent so should be close to up to date. In addition to the MPLS shortcomings, it also touches on recent IGP updates: >3.2.3.1. Interior Gateway Protocol (IGP) > > RFC 3630 [RFC3630] specifies a method of adding traffic engineering > capabilities to OSPF Version 2. New TLVs and sub-TLVs were added in > RFC 5329 [RFC5329] to extend TE capabilities to IPv6 networks in OSPF > Version 3. > > RFC 5305 [RFC5305] specifies a method of adding traffic engineering > capabilities to IS-IS. New TLVs and sub-TLVs were added in RFC 6119 > [RFC6119] to extend TE capabilities to IPv6 networks. > > Gap: None. When you talk to your vendor, ask what code will support these RFC¹s. -Josh >On 2/21/15, 6:00 AM, "nanog-request(a)nanog.org" <nanog-request(a)nanog.org> >wrote: > >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>Message: 1 >>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 09:00:07 -0500 >>From: Tim Durack <tdurack(a)gmail.com> >>To: Saku Ytti <saku(a)ytti.fi> >>Cc: "nanog(a)nanog.org" <nanog(a)nanog.org>, Juniper-Nsp >> <juniper-nsp(a)puck.nether.net>, "cisco-nsp(a)puck.nether.net" >> <cisco-nsp(a)puck.nether.net> >>Subject: Re: draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6-16 >>Message-ID: >> <CAE_ug16FGyQXsTuyP9o+uTDhdNpGBgFE6H5EbU4TDHb73Vm1UQ(a)mail.gmail.com> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> >>On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 6:39 AM, Saku Ytti <saku(a)ytti.fi> wrote: >> >>>On (2015-02-19 11:06 -0500), Tim Durack wrote: >>> >>>> What is the chance of getting working code this decade? I would quite >>>like >>>> to play with this new fangled IPv6 widget... >>>> >>>> (Okay, I'd like to stop using IPv4 for infrastructure. LDP is the last >>>> piece for me.) >>> >>>Is there 4PE implementation to drive IPv4 edges, shouldn't be hard to >>>accept >>>IPv6 next-hop in BGP LU, but probably does not work out-of-the-box? >>>Isn't Segment Routing implementation day1 IPV4+IPV6 in XR? >>> >>>-- >>> ++ytti >>> >> >>I would gladly take OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS+SR over LDP, but I'm seeing that >>is >>not all that is needed. >> >>I also need some flavor of L2VPN (eVPN) and L3VPN (VPNv4/VPNv6) working >>over IPv6. >> >>IPv6 control plane this decade may yet be optimistic. >> >>-- >>Tim:> >> > This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this E-mail and any printout.

3 2

New BCOPs in Progress
by Chris Grundemann 25 Mar '15

25 Mar '15

Hail NANOGers! As most of you hopefully know, NANOG now has a BCOP Ad Hoc Committee and we are pushing forward with new BCOPs! http://nanog.org/governance/bcop We currently have three BCOPs in active development: eBGP configuration, shepherd Bill Armstrong Public Peering Exchange update, shepherd Shawn Hsiao Ethernet OAM, shepherd Mark Calkins All three of these nascent BCOPs will be presented in the BCOP Track on Monday: http://nanog.org/meetings/abstract?id=2348 We have also collected a list of Appeals (BCOPs that need to be written): http://bcop.nanog.org/index.php/Appeals If you would like to help out with any of these BCOPs (or others yet to be identified) please join the BCOP mailing list and reach out to the shepherd (if applicable of course): http://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/bcop Our committee is brand new and we are still finding and smoothing wrinkles, etc. We would love your help in any capacity. As a BCOP shepherd or SME or just to point out potential pit falls or room for improvement, with the process, the wiki, a BCOP or anything at all really. This is a bottom-up, community led effort and it will only succeed with your help - join us in creating what I believe will be a vital and long-lasting institution! Cheers, ~Chris -- @ChrisGrundemann http://chrisgrundemann.com

6 10

Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality
by Larry Sheldon 11 Mar '15

11 Mar '15

http://publicpolicy.verizon.com/blog/entry/fccs-throwback-thursday-move-imp… -- The unique Characteristics of System Administrators: The fact that they are infallible; and, The fact that they learn from their mistakes. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes

7 7

Multiple Spanning Tree Instance 0
by Graham Johnston 04 Mar '15

04 Mar '15

We are planning a migration from Rapid PVST+ to Multiple Spanning Tree to better support a mixed vendor environment. My question today is about MST Instance 0. In practice do you map any VLANs there other than VLAN 1? Thanks, Graham Johnston Network Planner Westman Communications Group 204.717.2829 johnstong(a)westmancom.com<mailto:johnstong@westmancom.com> P think green; don't print this email.

3 2

Re: Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality
by Scott Helms 28 Feb '15

28 Feb '15

Steve, I'd be up in arms if all I had was a 1mbps uplink :) Having said that, the 10 mbps I get from Comcast right now is more than I need to do remote desktop, code check ins, and host of atypical uploading. I am absolutely not against good upstream rates! I do have a problem with people saying that we must/should have symmetrical connectivity simply because we don't see the market demand for that as of yet. Scott Helms Vice President of Technology ZCorum (678) 507-5000 -------------------------------- http://twitter.com/kscotthelms -------------------------------- On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 2:42 PM, Steve Clark <sclark(a)netwolves.com> wrote: > Scott, > > Maybe if it the upstream bandwidth was there would be more applications to > use it. I know it is a real > pain to upload pics to Facebook, etc on my 1mbs uplink, or move things to > work across my VPN. > > Steve > > On 02/27/2015 02:30 PM, Scott Helms wrote: > > Daniel, > > Well, I wouldn't call using the mean a "myth", after all understanding most > customer behavior is what we all have to build our business cases around. > If we throw out what customers use today and simply take a build it and > they will come approach then I suspect there would fewer of us in this > business. > > Even when we look at anomalous users we don't see symmetrical usage, ie top > 10% of uploaders. We also see less contended seconds on their upstream > than we do on the downstream. These observations are based on ~500k > residential and business subscribers across North America using FTTH > (mostly GPON), DOCSIS cable modems, and various flavors of DSL. > > > Scott Helms > Vice President of Technology > ZCorum(678) 507-5000 > --------------------------------http://twitter.com/kscotthelms > -------------------------------- > > On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 2:21 PM, Daniel Taylor <dtaylor(a)vocalabs.com> <dtaylor(a)vocalabs.com> wrote: > > > But by this you are buying into the myth of the mean. > > It isn't that most, or even many, people would take advantage of equal > upstream bandwidth, but that the few who would need to take extra measures > unrelated to the generation of that content to be able to do so. > > Given symmetrical provisioning, no extra measures need to be taken when > that 10 year old down the street turns out to be a master musician. > > On 02/27/2015 11:59 AM, Scott Helms wrote: > > > This is true in our measurements today, even when subscribers are given > symmetrical connections. It might change at some point in the future, > especially when widespread IPv6 lets us get rid of NAT as a de facto > deployment reality. > > > Scott Helms > Vice President of Technology > ZCorum(678) 507-5000 > --------------------------------http://twitter.com/kscotthelms > -------------------------------- > > On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 12:48 PM, Naslund, Steve <SNaslund(a)medline.com> <SNaslund(a)medline.com> > wrote: > > How about this? Show me 10 users in the average neighborhood creating > > content at 5 mbps....Period. Only realistic app I see is home > surveillance > but I don't think you want everyone accessing that anyway. The truth is > that the average user does not create content that anyone needs to see. > This has not changed throughout the ages, the ratio of authors to > readers, > artists to art lovers, musicians to music lovers, YouTube cat video > creator > to cat video lovers, has never been a many to many relationship. > > On 2015-02-27 12:13, Valdis.Kletnieks(a)vt.edu wrote: > > > Consider a group of 10 users, who all create new content. If each one > creates at a constant rate of 5 mbits, they need 5 up. But to > download all the new content from the other 9, they need close to 50 > > > down. > > > And when you expand to several billion people creating new content, > you need a *huge* pipe down. > > > Steven Naslund > Chicago IL > > > > > -- > Daniel Taylor VP Operations Vocal Laboratories, Inc.dtaylor(a)vocalabs.com http://www.vocalabs.com/ (612)235-5711 > > > > -- > Stephen Clark > *NetWolves Managed Services, LLC.* > Director of Technology > Phone: 813-579-3200 > Fax: 813-882-0209 > Email: steve.clark(a)netwolves.com > http://www.netwolves.com >

2 1

Re: Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality
by Scott Helms 28 Feb '15

28 Feb '15

Steve, My point is that for lots and lots of people their uplink is not "so low". Even when I look at users with 25/25 and 50/50, many of the have been at those rates for >3 years we don't see changes in traffic patterns nor satisfaction as compared to users at similar download rates but lower uplink rates as long as we don't go below ~5 mbps on the uplink. On Feb 28, 2015 10:46 AM, "Steve Clark" <sclark(a)netwolves.com> wrote: > On 02/27/2015 04:11 PM, Scott Helms wrote: > > Daniel, > > > "50MB/s might be tough to fill, but even at home I can get good use out of > the odd 25MB/s upstream burst for a few minutes." > > Which would you choose, 50/50 or 75/25? My point is not that upstream > speed isn't valuable, but merely that demand for it isn't symmetrical and > unless the market changes won't be in the near term. Downstream demand is > growing, in most markets I can see, much faster than upstream demand. > > Scott, > > Who can foresee what APPs might come about if uplinks speeds weren't so > low. I liken it to > whoever said no one will ever need more than 640KB of memory. > > Regards, > Steve > > > > Scott Helms > Vice President of Technology > ZCorum(678) 507-5000 > --------------------------------http://twitter.com/kscotthelms > -------------------------------- > > > > > -- > Stephen Clark > *NetWolves Managed Services, LLC.* > Director of Technology > Phone: 813-579-3200 > Fax: 813-882-0209 > Email: steve.clark(a)netwolves.com > http://www.netwolves.com >

3 2

One FCC neutrality elephant: disabilities compliance
by Mel Beckman 28 Feb '15

28 Feb '15

http://www.fcc.gov/guides/telecommunications-access-people-disabilities http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/title-iv-ada Section 255 of Title II applies to Internet providers now, as does section 225 of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). These rules have such unbelievable broad statements as: "Accessibility and usability must be assessed for individual products and services. Accessibility features that can be incorporated into the design of products or services with very little or no difficulty or expense must be put in each and every product or service." "...require network architecture to be designed in a way that does not hinder access by people with disabilities. Network architecture covers the public switched telephone network, and includes hardware or software databases associated with routing telecommunications services." "Telecommunications service providers and equipment manufacturers must provide the FCC with the name and contact information of the person (or persons) in their companies who are authorized to resolve accessibility complaints." "Each common carrier providing telephone voice transmission services shall, not later than 3 years after July 26, 1990, provide in compliance with the regulations prescribed under this section, throughout the area in which it offers service, telecommunications relay services" "The term "telecommunications relay services" means telephone transmission services that provide the ability for an individual who has a hearing impairment or speech impairment to engage in communication by wire or radio with a hearing individual in a manner that is functionally equivalent to the ability of an individual who does not have a hearing impairment or speech impairment to communicate using voice communication services by wire or radio. Such term includes services that enable two-way communication between an individual who uses a TDD or other nonvoice terminal device and an individual who does not use such a device." Many news stories have been published about how ADA was exploited by scammers to extort money out of bricks-and-mortar businesses. Now these scams are coming to the ISP biz. http://www.adaabuse.com

4 5